Single durability, admiralty points and Insurance

[Ned Loe]

In a week or so Developers will roll out new patch that will include rare 1 dura ship feature.

So, my suggestions are strictly attached only to 1 dura ships. We all know that such ships will be free and you will be able to capture them in fleets on OS. These 1 dura ships most likely will be Grey build quality (minimal benefit). So, to make things interesting Devs need to add 2 things.

Captured ships can be upgraded.

1. Request NPC/Player to upgrade your captured ship to any color (quality) by providing required supplies directly to NPC/Player. Player shipbuilder will craft 'upgrade kit' for that vessel. Ship still remains in 1 dura mode, but build quality/stats are improved. Randomize upgrade locations for NPCs(not all NPC shipwrights will want to upgrade your ship). You will need to haul materials = more traffic on OS.

Certify your upgraded captured ship and you can stack!

2. Certify captured ship, so it can use regional benefits(like all other player crafted ships) and can be stacked. Certification should be done in Capital Admiralty office for special PvP/Port battle rewards/currency. Once players collect enough (reward money/pendants) they can certify the ship. Once ship is Upgraded and Certified it suddenly meets all requirements and can join National Navy in other words (can be stacked).

Stacking

What is stacking? Stacking simply means if you capture 2 Grey ships ----> Bring mats to NPC and have him upgrade both ships to (green,blue, purple or gold qualities) + Certify both ships in Admiralty office, then you can stack them together and make them one 2 Durability ship.

Combining 2 ships.

Combining 2 green upgraded and certified ships = Green 2 dura ship. (2% blue 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 blue upgraded and certified ships = Blue 2 dura ship. (3.5% purple 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 purple upgraded and certified ships = Purple 2 dura ship. (5% gold 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 gold upgraded and certified ships = Gold 2 dura ship. (N/A)

*if you are stacking different colors, system should pick the highest quality. ex. green + gold = gold

So far we know that 2 grey captured ships can be upgraded using NPC/Player tool. We also know that after we upgraded our 1 dura ship quality and made it let's say gold we can now work towards Ship certification. We would need to go PvP, do Ports battles or do missions that can help create Port Battles and earn special points or pendants. Our battles reward us (we have enough points) and we now can Certify our Ship in Admiralty office. We now have 1 Gold Certified ship with stacking ability. This ship can be added to already built any amount dura ship or can be stacked with another Upgraded and Certified ship.

What about insurance for my Gold Certified ship?

Developers should add a special one time fee for 1 dura upgraded+certified chips only. Insurance will recover 80% of materials used in upgrading cost for your ship and 50% of points invested that were required for Ship Certification.

Simply put, you will get 50% of your Admiralty points back and 80% cash back if you sink in your Upgraded+Certified ship.

Discuss.

[Eishen]

quite the opposite alternative to siegfried´s  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16764-suggestion-for-1-dura-ships/

 

IF the final system retains durabilities this can be a very good idea.... if it requires a crafter help (otherwise it can ruin player economy) ... Time ago I proposed  something similar as a crafting alternative for "pirate crafting" (allowing them not building ships above 6th,  but adding durabilities from captured ones to theirs)

[Ned Loe]

quite the opposite alternative to siegfried´s  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16764-suggestion-for-1-dura-ships/

 

IF the final system retains durabilities this can be a very good idea.... if it requires a crafter help (otherwise it can ruin player economy) ... Time ago I proposed  something similar as a crafting alternative for "pirate crafting" (allowing them not building ships above 6th,  but adding durabilities from captured ones to theirs)

It can ruin player economy. This can easily be fixed by shifting upgrade feature directly to Player Shipbuilders and not NPC. This means player shipbuilders will start crafting 'upgrade kits' for (small, medium and large ships) and sell them on the market for those who want to upgrade their 1 dura grey ship. On the other hand, ship certification will require pvp, port battle and pvp missions. There is no other chance to get points and stacking ability.

 

This gives us benefits such as:

 

-New Ship Builder jobs and ways to earn money.

-More pvp and port battle numbers.

[maturin]

Please no frankenships.

[Ned Loe]

Please no frankenships.

Did you just call shipwrights useless?   Thanks a lot. Not sure who is building your ships, but they surely serve you well. 

[Anolytic]

I like all of this. Except I don't think we need stacking or insurance like you suggest. 1 dura ships should be the norm. At the very least 1st AND 2nd rates should be 1 dura, and 3rd rates no more than 2 dura.

[Ned Loe]

I like all of this. Except I don't think we need stacking or insurance like you suggest. 1 dura ships should be the norm. At the very least 1st AND 2nd rates should be 1 dura, and 3rd rates no more than 2 dura.

If you invest time into something and then loose it next day , you will say no thanks. That is why we need investment protection. So, you can come back and try again with less work. 

[OlavDeng2]

Didnt read the whole thing, but for the love of god please no durability recovering in any form!

[Ned Loe]

Didnt read the whole thing, but for the love of god please no durability recovering in any form!

This game doesn't have any rewards/loot that will make players go pvp, port battles etc.. Such small additions such as 1 dura ship upgrade can help with that issue. Unless you want to play in a very dull environment. Drops from today fleets or pvp are a joke. 

[SteelSandwich]

Stacking and combining, two things that stand at the exact oppoaite end of how i would like the game to develop.

Shipswrights are good, they arent magicians however.

[Kloothommel]

This reminds me of the Horadric Cube from diablo

[Ned Loe]

I glanced over this suggestion, and it seems to be more complicated than needed.

Fresh ideas are always welcome here.

[Sir Texas Sir]

This game doesn't have any rewards/loot that will make players go pvp, port battles etc.. Such small additions such as 1 dura ship upgrade can help with that issue. Unless you want to play in a very dull environment. Drops from today fleets or pvp are a joke. 

That is cause the current loot system blows.  I gotten grey mods from Regional Port battles.  Why am I getting a grey mod in a battle I have a first rate with all gold mods on it?  It's trash.  PvP rewards should maybe be random mods from the ships you capture/sink.   Capture ships if one dura like 1st rates should come with the mods the user had on them.  Though make this locked in so the only way to remove and put other mods on them is you have to destroy them.   To be honest  I would prefer all mods be perm once put on a ship.  They lock in if you leave the port with them on the ship.  I think the dura system for ships works as is, folks have little to worry about losoing there shisp if they have more dura, it's the problem the SOL"s are to easy to get right now that you see every one in the biggest badest ship they can get into even if they can't even fully crew it yet.  Need more incentives to not have SOL's in every battle.  Would be ncie to have levels of shallows and such you can fight in.  Think of shallows, normal draft and than deep.  You can get only light ships into the shallow areas.  Normal draft ships can go into areas that SOL or deep water ships can't get into so you can only see Frigates and Lights in those areas.   Than of course the deep waters can have any ship in them.  Though port battle limits should still stand to keep from lower level ships trolling say the regional deep water port battles.   I think this is kinda being fixed with the open 25/25 battles on OW that will be taken place of the old flag nightly port batttles we have now.   

 

As for upgrades would be nice, but don't like the stacking system.  This is how we Pirates should be getting the Pirate Frigate.   Say we take one capture frigate and we can turn it into say a crafter and he can convert it over to that same level ship but now a Pirate Frigate that has less armor but some bigger guns and more crew.   THough the ship is still a one dura ship.  The can make a few more ships like this to replace the fact that Pirates won't be able to make there own SOL's.  Though they have to watch this cause POTBS had a system like it and many of the pirate mods where OP compared to there national counter part.   Though SOL's as with any ships could still be capture in PvP.

[Lockheed]

This game doesn't have any rewards/loot that will make players go pvp, port battles etc.. Such small additions such as 1 dura ship upgrade can help with that issue. Unless you want to play in a very dull environment. Drops from today fleets or pvp are a joke. 

^^This! My biggest pain in this game is the lack of rewards for PVP!

I dont like direct comparison with other games but here I must do it. I play EVE Online since the beginning ( 2003 ) and will going to play it for a while I am sure. I've tried everything from Power-Bloc alliance warfare ( few thousands of peoples each side ) to solo/small gang pvp and I found the latter more enjoyable, at least for me. I always wondered why new players, relatively newbs going out and blowing their ships up, dying a horrible death day after day until I've came to the following conclusion. There is only 3 reason to do this:

1. The excitement of the fight itself. It is quite fun to fight against another player, especially the first few hundred encounter. You really feel the chills and the adrenalin.

2. The killmail. In EVE you will get a kill/lossmail after every win or defeat, containing the details of the encounter, weapons used, damage taken, damage dealt ( every person who dealt any damage to the victim will be on the mail ), modules survived/modules destroyed. These mails can be linked into chats and will be on your character sheet ( your details, employment (clan) history, kill/lossmails, etc... ) and can be uploaded via API to a website called killboards so you can follow your kill/loss counter and you can track the details of the campaign/war. 

3. The possibility of FAT (expensive) loot. <<<THIS! Every ship that destroyed will drop loot, no matter what. It will randomly drops its fitted modules AND cargo with the same chance. If it has 10 useless + 1 expensive modules fitted, all of them has the same chance to drop, but you will certainly get some of its modules after the fight. This brings a lot of player into PVP. You can loot a module that worth more then your entire assets you have on your account. This will drives you to take risk, go into fights that seems impossible with a broad smile on your face because you know that these guys usually have very expensive fits. 

In EVE there are no durability, everything that gets destroyed is gone for ever. You will learn to accept that the ship you undock will die so better not worry about it. But you have a chance to loot something nice so you dont risk your ship for nothing. The Risk-Reward ratio in NA is just bad if I want to put it mildly. You have a tiny bit of chance to find something worthy but thats about it. You buy a ship, outfit it for millions knowing, if you lose it its gone, and you only have  a tiny chance to find something that maybe worth as much as ONLY ONE of your modules on your ship but we all know that this isnt really the case. We usually get nothing or something grey maybe green in the majority of the time. 

In my opinion at the current state of the game ( unless you are exceptionally rich and you dont care about losses at all ) using anything above green modules on your ship for pvp is just doesnt worth it. In port battles maybe, because there you will take the port (hopefully) and that is a sort of strategic resource that will benefit your nation. But in every other occasion you risk your ships for nothing to gain. A few ten thousands of gold?? That will hardly cover the modules+ship that you risk fighting the battle. 

This game needs mooore rewards for pvp, and this can be easily solved by adding the modules fitted on the destroyed ship/ships to the loot. Obviously they should not drop with a 100% chance. A player should be able to cover his losses from the loot from pvp. Currently we are forced to trade (meh) or PVE (meh) in order to avoid being broke after a loss of a ship. This would make the ship losses less painful but still hurts, would increase the number of players that do pvp significantly as pvp would become a viable source of income. As a result of this, those players who plays this game for the PVP content would not be forced to trade anymore. When you have to do something you dont want to do just to be able to do what you like it isnt really fun.  

Will link a few pics here how does this works in EVE. 

http://image.prntscr.com/image/83afcdd0607c43ed9e8fc695e98672e3.png

http://image.prntscr.com/image/58dd6f0e704243b28c75aae7629eb498.png

 

 

And finally here is a link for a killmail: https://zkillboard.com/kill/56472904/

 

Sorry, for the wall of text but the sentence I have quoted triggered me to write this down.. Maybe I should have put this into the Features and Ideas but I doubt it hasnt been mentioned there before...

o7

Edited October 7, 2016 by Lockheed

[Jonnydread]

I don't like the idea of stacking and insurances. Just make every ship 1 dura, but you don't lose your non-permanent upgrades when you get captured, or at least not all of them. 

This whole Dura-System is very artificial and has many unwanted side effects.

If a ship gets sunk->it is sunk and can not be sailed anymore because it is on the bottom of the sea

If a ship gets captured ->the captain who captured the ship has now the ship.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Jonnydread

[Rebel Witch]

If you invest time into something and then loose it next day , you will say no thanks. That is why we need investment protection. So, you can come back and try again with less work. 

 

 

I agree to a point, however as a long time EVE player, part of the fun of games with economies is risking your ship. What makes EVE so fascinating, exciting and quite fun is the work you put into a ship and knowing you could lose it during your engagement. The term "don't fly what you cant afford to lose" can easily be translated to "sail" 

 

If the Devs in this game want to limit large ships in this game, the best way to do it is to make them very expensive to build and MAINTAIN, and 1 dura. Smaller ships would be less expensive and easy to replace.

 

Adding 'insurance' to ships in this game is not only unrealistic, but unnecessary. This is a golden opportunity to make big ships in this game truly rare and inspiring. 

 

I have played MMO's for years and the trend that i see is that when developers make the truly special items or powers in an MMO easy and cheap for everyone, then it dumbs down the game and turns players off in the long run. 

 

I look to star wars galaxies, in that game you had to spend a great deal of time to become a jedi and only a small percentage of players became jedi making them unique. The developers then opened up jedi to all the players, and within months the game lost its core customers and spiraled to its death. (much more to that story)

 

Look at WOW, where special items in that game , players worked feverishly to get them, then later Dev's made these items cheap and easy to get. Today WOW is in its death spiral because Devs dumbed down the game to attract masses but in reality ruined its core attraction and customer base.

 

Look to EVE Online where it is one of the only MMO's to ever go from very little customer base to one of the biggest MMO's on the market. Its overwhelming appeal was its brutal and exciting high risk pvp. Its larger ships had next to no insurance so using large, expensive ships made you a boss however it came with risks. PVP was (still is) exciting because you cant just 'recover' everything you lose.

 

 

Still today people and players look in awe at sailing ships, especially ships of the line, the battleships of their time. Making them cheap and easy in this game will dull their appeal. 

 

Hard core players will bust their butt to get the best ships. Well organized player groups will work together to have the best fleets and the biggest ships. Average players will sail what they can afford to lose and they will watch in envy and enjoyment at the rare sight of a ship of the line. When games have a 'high tier' or layers of risk it attracts more players long term because human beings either want to work to be the best or are fine relaxing and being average. Such games draw that human behavior out more.

 

those are just my thoughts. This game is already amazing and it has so much potential. I just hope the Dev's keep SOL's special, it will make the game more attractive in the long run. Dev's of tomorrows block buster games would be wise to learn the lessons of MMO's of the past. 

[CaptVonGunn]

Stacking

What is stacking? Stacking simply means if you capture 2 Grey ships ----> Bring mats to NPC and have him upgrade both ships to (green,blue, purple or gold qualities) + Certify both ships in Admiralty office, then you can stack them together and make them one 2 Durability ship.

Combining 2 ships.

Combining 2 green upgraded and certified ships = Green 2 dura ship. (2% blue 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 blue upgraded and certified ships = Blue 2 dura ship. (3.5% purple 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 purple upgraded and certified ships = Purple 2 dura ship. (5% gold 2 dura ship drop)

Combining 2 gold upgraded and certified ships = Gold 2 dura ship. (N/A)

*if you are stacking different colors, system should pick the highest quality. ex. green + gold = gold

So far we know that 2 grey captured ships can be upgraded using NPC/Player tool. We also know that after we upgraded our 1 dura ship quality and made it let's say gold we can now work towards Ship certification. We would need to go PvP, do Ports battles or do missions that can help create Port Battles and earn special points or pendants. Our battles reward us (we have enough points) and we now can Certify our Ship in Admiralty office. We now have 1 Gold Certified ship with stacking ability. This ship can be added to already built any amount dura ship or can be stacked with another Upgraded and Certified ship.

 

 

 Will this work with ANY in game ship?

[Ned Loe]

 Will this work with ANY in game ship?

Why not? You still will give shipbuilders business by asking them to craft you an 'upgrade kit' for your grey ships.

[squedage]

i really want to see perm mods go with a ship if its captured at 1 dura. Dont see why the mods that are a "part" of the ship would just vanish after someone else gets the ship