[PvP1] August 28th 1716, General Court Martial of Komandør fox2run

[Johny Reb]

I am amazed by the outcome of your verdict. From now on anyone in the forums can be subject to a trail just to have opinions... And for the rest there is no shadow of any evidence whatsoever. No screenshots from battles. No reports. Nothing. Just different opinions on stuff. Well.- This is no game-forum. This is communism in its purest form. Im out.

Well, as these forums permit, I can always change my vote if new evidence is presented.

 

I for one have been fair in casting it. I would not have voted guilty for all points but that was not an option so I chose to look at it and ask myself if you were guilty of the general complaint found within the charges. You could argue that if I found just one point in which Fox2run was innocent on then I should avoid the guilty verdict but I read the disputed charge and saw that it was worded poorly and that it could be implied specifically.... i.e. you are a bad sailor, or generally... i.e. your attitude and decisions make you a bad sailor even if your ship handling is good. Therefore, I concluded that I could find you guilty on all charges by applying the general interpretation of the charge instead of the specific interpretation.

 

I also, asked for a defense... "What defense does Fox2run give of his general disrespect to the Danish goals as a collective." For this you have chosen not to answer which I must conclude means that you have no defense or you don't feel you need to present one.

 

I also made my judgment as a witness to some of the charges when I participated in conversations about you in another thread. I have seen first hand your attitude and I reject your reasoning as being selfish and irrelevant. So, for me the choice was clear. Guilty.

[helgur]

I am not sure how a pirate becomes a judge

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by helgur

[fox2run]

"I also, asked for a defense... "What defense does Fox2run give of his general disrespect to the Danish goals as a collective." For this you have chosen not to answer which I must conclude means that you have no defense or you don't feel you need to present one."

 

I do not feel any disrespect for the danish nation, flag, king, country or women. I has been in servere doubt however, Sir, about this nation self-proclaimed leadership and mongering. We are talking - not about the nation - not about disrespect - about very, very, very poor leadership internal as external. The danish nation has been (and somewhat still is) in the hand of 3 clans that DO NOT accept ANY opposition or COMPETITION WHATSOEVER in ANY form. They DO NOT accept ANY kind of discussion of the doubtfull ALLIES chosen. MANY times I have been backstabbed by our SO-CALLED allies, the pirates. And yet I had to embrace them as friends. I was kicked out of VIE for arguing for this. I wanted to make peace with the honorable british nation in order to ensure a front so that the territory now conquered by Sweden was secured. This did not happen. Furthermore those 3 clans gave away a port - Fort Baai - in which many losses have been achieved by bitter fights versus Sweden. It was given away for FREE! Players lost their outpost, goods etc. That was nothing but POOR leadership and an outcome by BAD skills in negotiations. 

 

On top of this backstabbing those 3 clans tried to steer which enemies the smaller clans should - and not should attack. There are a lot of smaller clans and individual captains that wants to fight the enemy in red and not those 3 PRIVATE clans dictate us to. This is not an issue between me and the danish community but between big clans versus the smaller. Why should we give away our free right to play as we see fit (in the political frames given to us by the developers)? Many a clan NATO, VIK, VGK, RTS etc. did not nescessary follow the self-proclaimed-private council made by RDNN which apparantly are much more capable of understand the french language than I. An alliance with them catholic pagan heathens does not make any sence in my book, whatsoever. 

 

Now we have the new political system that replaces the old alliances somewhat which is a good thing. I can now vote for the alliances I choose but also need to accept the nations overall system. It is much easier to comprehend. But YET the 3 clans like to fall back in their old powermongering. They tried to make PERSONAL complains over the option to attack the french once the treaty was gone. They like to speak more to the french TS-community than to those of our very own that do not attend to TS. We are the bottom of those peoples priorities. Half - or more than half - of the community do not go on TS and yet we have to live with these personal accusations on a day to day basis if we do not FALL IN. I am as a kontreadmiral a supreme commander of a clan not just some ransom cutter captain. I will therefore not accept any other legal authority than those given to us by the danish parliament!

Edited September 1, 2016 by fox2run

[Knallkorp]

"I also, asked for a defense... "What defense does Fox2run give of his general disrespect to the Danish goals as a collective." For this you have chosen not to answer which I must conclude means that you have no defense or you don't feel you need to present one."

I do not feel any disrespect for the danish nation, flag, king, country or women. I has been in servere doubt however, Sir, about this nation self-proclaimed leadership and mongering. We are talking - not about the nation - not about disrespect - about very, very, very poor leadership internal as external. The danish nation has been (and somewhat still is) in the hand of 3 clans that DO NOT accept ANY opposition or COMPETITION WHATSOEVER in ANY form. They DO NOT accept ANY kind of discussion of the doubtfull ALLIES chosen. MANY times I have been backstabbed by our SO-CALLED allies, the pirates. And yet I had to embrace them as friends. I was kicked out of VIE for arguing for this. I wanted to make peace with the honorable british nation in order to ensure a front so that the territory now conquered by Sweden was secured. This did not happen. Furthermore those 3 clans gave away a port - Fort Baai - in which many losses have been achieved by bitter fights versus Sweden. It was given away for FREE! Players lost their outpost, goods etc. That was nothing but POOR leadership and an outcome by BAD skills in negotiations.

On top of this backstabbing those 3 clans tried to steer which enemies the smaller clans should - and not should attack. There are a lot of smaller clans and individual captains that wants to fight the enemy in red and not those 3 PRIVATE clans dictate us to. This is not an issue between me and the danish community but between big clans versus the smaller. Why should we give away our free right to play as we see fit (in the political frames given to us by the developers)? Many a clan NATO, VIK, VGK, RTS etc. did not nescessary follow the self-proclaimed-private council made by RDNN which apparantly are much more capable of understand the french language than I. An alliance with them catholic pagan heathens does not make any sence in my book, whatsoever.

Now we have the new political system that replaces the old alliances somewhat which is a good thing. I can now vote for the alliances I choose but also need to accept the nations overall system. It is much easier to comprehend. But YET the 3 clans like to fall back in their old powermongering. They tried to make PERSONAL complains over the option to attack the french once the treaty was gone. They like to speak more to the french TS-community than to those of our very own that do not attend to TS. We are the bottom of those peoples priorities. Half - or more than half - of the community do not go on TS and yet we have to live with these personal accusations on a day to day basis if we do not FALL IN. I am as a kontreadmiral a supreme commander of a clan not just some ransom cutter captain. I will therefore not accept any other legal authority than those given to us by the danish parliament!

Make you voice heard join the council, u might need to get TS if you want the but it's up to you. Majority of the Danish players are in the 3 big clans and majority rules with the new diplo.

If you can't accept it their is always pirates you can join they are free and can do whatever they want.

[Skully]

I will therefore not accept any other legal authority than those given to us by the danish parliament!

For now you stand before this Court for all your fellow Captains to determine whether the charges presented hold truth or not.

Final Judgement lies with the President of the Court, the Tribunal, which holds complete authority over all Captains. Maybe in the future National courts can take over such cases.

[fox2run]

Make you voice heard join the council, u might need to get TS if you want the but it's up to you. Majority of the Danish players are in the 3 big clans and majority rules with the new diplo.

If you can't accept it their is always pirates you can join they are free and can do whatever they want.

 

No - the majority of the danish players are NOT on TS. The 3 clans do not represent a majority. And if they do, they stille live in a parliamentary state. BTW: The russians, germans and many individuals are NOT in those 3 clans. 

[Twig]

Woudn't this be the perfect time to make a suggestion to the admins, that they should try to implement a "judging system?" like a overnational law-court where every player can vote against mayor crimes if those person got accused a few times? ;D

[Skully]

Woudn't this be the perfect time to make a suggestion to the admins, that they should try to implement a "judging system?" like a overnational law-court where every player can vote against mayor crimes if those person got accused a few times? ;D

I was keeping this until last, but since you asked.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16219-accusing-a-saboteur-marking-an-outlaw/

[Hethwill]

We, that meaning me and the crew, have cast our choices regarding the present situation and it is in the best interest of all here assembled that the votes was almost unanimous regarding the immediate release of the captain Fox.

 

Many of the crew of the Hyena has been subjected to the same horrid conditions in their original line of work and fate decreed that many decided for a merry life aboard a freebooter vessel, where any man of any race, religion and political belief can cohexist in harmony and danger.

 

I suggest therefore that the sentence to be forfeited and the captain be given the option to find his own way.

[Knallkorp]

No - the majority of the danish players are NOT on TS. The 3 clans do not represent a majority. And if they do, they stille live in a parliamentary state. BTW: The russians, germans and many individuals are NOT in those 3 clans.

Then gather them! Make your majority and you can rule Denmark the way you and the majority see fit. With the current diplo system majority wins.

[fox2run]

Then gather them! Make your majority and you can rule Denmark the way you and the majority see fit. With the current diplo system majority wins.

 

The whole thing is not about gathering players in a new powerhouse. No, Sir. Its the liberty to attack enemies without interference from clans who like to make their own, intern rules something the rest of us has to follow. I must admit, however, that the nem political system has oiled the waters somewhat - which is - a good thing. 

[Skully]

The whole thing is not about gathering players in a new powerhouse. No, Sir. Its the liberty to attack enemies without interference from clans who like to make their own, intern rules something the rest of us has to follow. I must admit, however, that the nem political system has oiled the waters somewhat - which is - a good thing.

And now the same system, a majority vote is going to put you into the Pirates.

How do you feel about that?

[fox2run]

And now the same system, a majority vote is going to put you into the Pirates.

How do you feel about that?

 

There is no way you can make me pirate, Sir. Id rather play SimCity than demote myself to outlaw. I have never liked that ugly flag of yours and Id say that pirates are the last thing I ever will be. Actually I love sinking pirate ships more than anything else.

 

I like civilized societies under the rule of laws. In this case, however, it is a matter of what law I have to follow. The laws of the developers who has no reason whatsoever to ban me or give me warnings even. Or the laws made by some (admittedly) enthustiatic players themselves - out of control - out of sync. If a clan - or clans make deals its fine.

 

I will not oppose that. But they cannot, never, ever zip, zero, nada demand that those deals involve players from other clans. Any juridical expertise will agree on that. RDNN, VIE and DANVE ARE NOT elected by any democratic parliament nor has given any rights by any kings or rulers or even better: developers with God given rights.

Edited September 1, 2016 by fox2run

[Skully]

There is no way you can make me pirate, Sir. Id rather play SimCity than demote myself to outlaw. I have never liked that ugly flag of yours and Id say that pirates are the last thing I ever will be. Actually I love sinking pirate ships more than anything else.

 

I like civilized societies under the rule of laws. In this case, however, it is a matter of what law I have to follow. The laws of the developers who has no reason whatsoever to ban me or give me warnings even. Or the laws made by some (admittedly) enthustiatic players themselves - out of control - out of sync. If a clan - or clans make deals its fine.

 

I will not oppose that. But they cannot, never, ever zip, zero, nada demand that those deals involve players from other clans. Any juridical expertise will agree on that. RDNN, VIE and DANVE ARE NOT elected by any democratic parliament nor has given any rights by any kings or rulers or even better: developers with God given rights.

So basically you want to show off your toxic behavior and grief away. Then when called upon your actions by other players, hide behind the game mechanics?

[Bramborough]

There is no way you can make me pirate, Sir. Id rather play SimCity than demote myself to outlaw. I have never liked that ugly flag of yours and Id say that pirates are the last thing I ever will be. Actually I love sinking pirate ships more than anything else.

 

I like civilized societies under the rule of laws. In this case, however, it is a matter of what law I have to follow. The laws of the developers who has no reason whatsoever to ban me or give me warnings even. Or the laws made by some (admittedly) enthustiatic players themselves - out of control - out of sync. If a clan - or clans make deals its fine.

 

I will not oppose that. But they cannot, never, ever zip, zero, nada demand that those deals involve players from other clans. Any juridical expertise will agree on that. RDNN, VIE and DANVE ARE NOT elected by any democratic parliament nor has given any rights by any kings or rulers or even better: developers with God given rights.

 

I think I finally realize why you're so far at odds with the vast majority of others (and not just PvP1 Danes) in these forums.  

 

Unlike any other MMO I have played, Naval Action is a nation-focused game, rather than clan-focused.  In most other MMOs, the goals/activities of a specific clan are impacted little (if at all) by the actions of different clans or non-clan players.  But in Naval Action, they are.  In fact, the goals/actions of a single clan (even a large one) are distinctly secondary to those of the nation as a whole.  The degree to which any clan's (or individual's) goals/actions differ from the national goals/actions is the degree to which that clan or individual harms and disrupts the nation of which they are part.  

 

That last sentence may sound like a chilling bit of collectivist-regime propaganda, worthy of Orwell.  But in fact the game is very egalitarian.  Each nation is essentially one big clan with zero membership barriers and inability to kick.  The use of Teamspeak isn't an attempt to exclude...it's a tool to help coordinate and get all rowers in the one-big-clan canoe pulling in the same direction.  Extra-game diplomacy (which, contrary to the perception of some, seems to me more important than ever in the new alliance/war mechanic environment) are attempts - with varying degrees of success - to further and shape the nation's goals in order to make its actions more effective in achieving those goals.  

 

In PvP1 Britain, we genuinely operate along these lines.  The mantra is "One Big Clan".  The council meetings are open to all.  The "leaders" (i.e., those who frankly work their butts off to conduct coordination/diplo and organize/command operations - often to the detriment of their own personal enjoyment of the game) earnestly try to run things and achieve outcomes which are genuinely beneficial to all British players regardless of RvR activity and/or clan affiliation.  I have a hard time imagining that Danmark-Norge or any other NA nation is markedly different from what I have described.

 

Your quoted post above, fox2run, shows in stark relief that you just don't get it.  One Big Clan.  If you start thinking of Danmark-Norge in such a way...perhaps you'll finally start to get a glimmer of why you've encountered such antagonism from otherwise gentle-natured folk.

[Hethwill]

Just do it !!!!!!

[fox2run]

I think I finally realize why you're so far at odds with the vast majority of others (and not just PvP1 Danes) in these forums.  

 

Unlike any other MMO I have played, Naval Action is a nation-focused game, rather than clan-focused.  In most other MMOs, the goals/activities of a specific clan are impacted little (if at all) by the actions of different clans or non-clan players.  But in Naval Action, they are.  In fact, the goals/actions of a single clan (even a large one) are distinctly secondary to those of the nation as a whole.  The degree to which any clan's (or individual's) goals/actions differ from the national goals/actions is the degree to which that clan or individual harms and disrupts the nation of which they are part.  

 

That last sentence may sound like a chilling bit of collectivist-regime propaganda, worthy of Orwell.  But in fact the game is very egalitarian.  Each nation is essentially one big clan with zero membership barriers and inability to kick.  The use of Teamspeak isn't an attempt to exclude...it's a tool to help coordinate and get all rowers in the one-big-clan canoe pulling in the same direction.  Extra-game diplomacy (which, contrary to the perception of some, seems to me more important than ever in the new alliance/war mechanic environment) are attempts - with varying degrees of success - to further and shape the nation's goals in order to make its actions more effective in achieving those goals.  

 

In PvP1 Britain, we genuinely operate along these lines.  The mantra is "One Big Clan".  The council meetings are open to all.  The "leaders" (i.e., those who frankly work their butts off to conduct coordination/diplo and organize/command operations - often to the detriment of their own personal enjoyment of the game) earnestly try to run things and achieve outcomes which are genuinely beneficial to all British players regardless of RvR activity and/or clan affiliation.  I have a hard time imagining that Danmark-Norge or any other NA nation is markedly different from what I have described.

 

Your quoted post above, fox2run, shows in stark relief that you just don't get it.  One Big Clan.  If you start thinking of Danmark-Norge in such a way...perhaps you'll finally start to get a glimmer of why you've encountered such antagonism from otherwise gentle-natured folk.

 

Oddly enough we had it the same way just with opposite outcome... 

[Johny Reb]

And now we see why the pirates have gotten involved in this discussion. They see an opportunity to gain a Captain that is bitter against a perceived tyranny and ambitious enough to pursue his goals as he sees fit but even with all his flaws, Captain Fox2run can see through the pirate talk about freedom and smoke out what they really are.... Nothing but thieves.

[fox2run]

So basically you want to show off your toxic behavior and grief away. Then when called upon your actions by other players, hide behind the game mechanics?

 

No toxic behavior has been reported to me from the developers of this game. I have not been personal in any way. I have not been calling anyone "idiot" or "stupid" or "low-IQ-ed". How come Im here and not the other way around?

 

At least one could hope to be the target for more refined and intelligent faulty language like "shipworm" or "jellyfish". 

Edited September 1, 2016 by fox2run

[Skully]

No toxic behavior has been reported to me from the developers of this game. I have not been personal in any way. I have not been calling anyone "idiot" or "stupid" or "low-IQ-ed". How come Im here and not the other way around?

 

At least one could hope to be the target for more refined and intelligent faulty language like "shipworm" or "jellyfish".

I think you have found your superior dear fox2run.

I know what gives "warning points" and I observe your attempt to bait and goat me into one with contempt.

Now I'll add my own verdict of Guilty for toxic behavior and griefing.

Note that such behavior is punished not just by exile into Piracy, but rather complete banishment from Naval Action.

But that I'll spare you, and simply hand you over for Judgement and Execution to the Tribunal.

If any Captain wants to make closing statements, please do at your own convenience while I start writing up my report.

[Hethwill]

And now we see why the pirates have gotten involved in this discussion. They see an opportunity to gain a Captain that is bitter against a perceived tyranny and ambitious enough to pursue his goals as he sees fit but even with all his flaws, Captain Fox2run can see through the pirate talk about freedom and smoke out what they really are.... Nothing but thieves.

 

OOC (( Amazing line )))

 

 

The crew of the Hyena votes not guilty.

[fox2run]

Thank you Hethwill - an honour to be handled in a proper way by an old enemy!

[Hethwill]

Oh no... I voted a good hanging, somehow I need to see one once in a while to remind myself and the rest of the crew what expects us at the end of the line... but, as appropriate all the crew voted and by majority you are to be set free.

 

[Potemkin]

Note that such behavior is punished not just by exile into Piracy, but rather complete banishment from Naval Action.

But that I'll spare you, and simply hand you over for Judgement and Execution to the Tribunal.

Is this topic serious or is this "roleplaying". I honestly cant tell. Messed up the quote (on my phone) my bad.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Potemkin

[Skully]

Is this topic serious or is this "roleplaying". I honestly cant tell. Messed up the quote (on my phone) my bad.

It is part both.

Although the Tribunal is currently debating whether Roman Law TABLE VII, LAW XIV should apply and to whom.

Anyone who annoys another by means of magic incantations or diabolical arts, and renders him inactive, or ill; or who prepares or administers poison to him, is guilty of a capital crime, and shall be punished with death.

I think we should have proper means to address potential trolling. But not just the means, but also properly be able to qualify something as trolling.

The question has become, do we allow a Common Law style or something else? But first the Tribunal has to make up its mind.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Skully