So how long until the pirates take over and what will happen to the game when they do?

[Mrdoomed]

you can try to create another faction if you want, but right now nothing prevent you to apply those rules when playing:

1.)Make them get no XP from NPCs. Double XP from Players , : DONT farm npcs

2.)No production buildings : DONT build buildings

3.)Max level 2 shipyard. :build your shipyard only to level 2

4.)Reduced Outpost cost. : gold is not really a problem in this game if you got the skill but anyway you want hardmode without npc farming right ?

5.)One unique Glass Cannon frigate. Say like a surprise but with 3.5 turn rate.: make a surprise with gold upgraded rudder and some gold upgraded for turning

6.)Any ports they capture in PB turn to neutral ports. : Just dont capture any port.( anyway you wont be able to capture any port but shallow if sailing in small ships only.

7.)Let them enter neutral ports. : DONT enter any other port than neutral.

it s a sandbox that means the players are free to create the world or play with the rules they want.

You can tell most of the ones complaining have never played a sandbox game or anything close. They are used to themepark games that hold their hands and guide them along so they can can feel the game was made for only them and they can tell everyone the game was made for just me.

[SteelSandwich]

May i sternly remind some individuals that personal remarks, trolling or rude behavior in general are NOT accepted here.

 

With respect and dignity is how we treat each other here.

[Hethwill]

Merry go round and round and round.

 

You keep looking at mechanics that rule Nations and try to work them out to tailor Pirates.

 

Primarily the player that chose pirates think they might have a different kind of liberty that they do not possess in a Nation, and here lies the trap. They only thing they can do is attack each other. This is as much a incentive as it is deterrent as being Pirate means nothing unless one sets up to custom rules and play by them.

 

So, step back, and rework a completely different thing for pirates while ignoring completely the rules that affect nations.

[Babble]

you can try to create another faction if you want, but right now nothing prevent you to apply those rules when playing:

 

1.)Make them get no XP from NPCs.  Double XP from Players , : DONT farm npcs

2.)No production buildings : DONT build buildings

3.)Max level 2 shipyard. :build your shipyard only to level 2

4.)Reduced Outpost cost. : gold is not really a problem in this game if you got the skill but anyway you want hardmode without npc farming right ?

5.)One unique Glass Cannon frigate.  Say like a surprise but with 3.5 turn rate.: make a surprise with gold upgraded rudder and some gold upgraded for turning

6.)Any ports they capture in PB turn to neutral ports. :  Just dont capture any port.( anyway you wont be able to capture any port but shallow if sailing in small ships only.

7.)Let them enter neutral ports. : DONT enter any other port than neutral.

 

it s a sandbox that means the players are free to create the world or play with the rules they want.

1.) i dont. 

2.) i dont

3.)only level 1 atm in tortuga

4.)gold is an issue when u dont farm npcs but fair enough. (the point was to make it so the new nation can setup shop deep in enemy territory all over the map.)

5.)not equivalent for various reasons

6.)plenty of shallow ports

7.) so pitts town?

 

The point is rats were planned in development to be hardmode.  Apparently things have changed.  Make the current rats a nation.  The make a hardmode option.   This would not affect your gameplay at all so i am unsure as to why you are being so hostile about it.

[mouse of war]

Unlike you ( plural form)  that keep complaining and try to find a way to make pirate weaker by the game mechanics. We never ask anything else than equal weapons to fight against the nations.

Anyone can play "real" pirate ( at least the way that you want us to play to), some nations are docking in pirate water free towns and attacking our traders or ganking us also, but we never complain that nations can play like pirate too, we just learn how to deal against it.

Anyway it seems like some national players complain alot about everything pirate do anyway, even if we sail in small ships like cutters to frigate class and raid your jamaica cost,  some of your players complain about it on the forums too, whilst that s something british royal navy did alot before, they came to Mortimer in big fleet to gank any newbie nearby before.

 

You misunderstand - I don't want you to play a real pirate. I just want you to have the choice of Pirate Nation (same rules as other nations) or a Real Pirate (more 'piratey' rules).

I'm hoping that such a choice should please everyone

[Mrdoomed]

You misunderstand - I don't want you to play a real pirate. I just want you to have the choice of Pirate Nation (same rules as other nations) or a Real Pirate (more 'piratey' rules).

I'm hoping that such a choice should please everyone

Youre never gonna please everyone. Hell most of the real problems the most " upset" people have really have nothing to do with pirates if you really delve into it. They just have a problem of losing.

[Babble]

Youre never gonna please everyone. Hell most of the real problems the most " upset" people have really have nothing to do with pirates if you really delve into it. They just have a problem of losing.

You may be right with some people, but speaking for myself i don't feel as though I am losing anything.

 

RvR is pointless at the moment.  PBs are silly at the moment.  I don't partake.   All i do is pvp.

 

I was just hopeful when i first starting following this game development over a year ago that they were actually going to make pirates a hardcore PVP oriented faction as stated during development.   That hasn't happened yet or maybe it never will since a 3rd of the current in game players are members of the pirate nation in its current state.

 

 

My understanding is some people, (mostly nationals), want pirates to be the same as nationals since they are playing the same way as nationals.

 

Some pirates or nationals excited about the idea of piracy, want pirates to be a more piratey faction.

 

Some pirates dont think anything should change because they feel the only reason anyone cares is because they are "winning".

 

 

The easiest solution to this problem is this:

 

1.)No more turning pirate.   Pirates are a nation.  You choose pirate at character creation.  They play the same as a nation.

 

2.) Create a hardcore pvp orientated faction not called pirate.  Which can become the hardmode so many people around in the development stages were excited about. 

 

 

This way the current pirate players can continue to play just as they want.  Nationals cant complain that rats are zerging due to their different game mechanics.   The 3rd faction who just wants to raid traders, and players all day can be happy.

 

 

Seems pretty cut and dry in my opinion.  No negative.  Everyone gets what they want.

[Mrdoomed]

You may be right with some people, but speaking for myself i don't feel as though I am losing anything.

RvR is pointless at the moment. PBs are silly at the moment. I don't partake. All i do is pvp.

I was just hopeful when i first starting following this game development over a year ago that they were actually going to make pirates a hardcore PVP oriented faction as stated during development. That hasn't happened yet or maybe it never will since a 3rd of the current in game players are members of the pirate nation in its current state.

My understanding is some people, (mostly nationals), want pirates to be the same as nationals since they are playing the same way as nationals.

Some pirates or nationals excited about the idea of piracy, want pirates to be a more piratey faction.

Some pirates dont think anything should change because they feel the only reason anyone cares is because they are "winning".

The easiest solution to this problem is this:

1.)No more turning pirate. Pirates are a nation. You choose pirate at character creation. They play the same as a nation.

2.) Create a hardcore pvp orientated faction not called pirate. Which can become the hardmode so many people around in the development stages were excited about.

This way the current pirate players can continue to play just as they want. Nationals cant complain that rats are zerging due to their different game mechanics. The 3rd faction who just wants to raid traders, and players all day can be happy.

Seems pretty cut and dry in my opinion. No negative. Everyone gets what they want.

Yeah i play alot like you do it seems. I dont bother with pbs or huge fleet battles. I operate outa a free port doing pirate stuff and i agree with your first point all the way and would add that they should not be able to get ANY benifits from attacking one another.

I suggested letting players be " neutral " and act in any way they wanted so that if they got a rep as pirate or privateer or freetraer then thats how the nations would see them.

It was more in depth than that but admin made a comment about neutral something in the future. That way there is no " pirates capital " or " pirates" just people commiting acts of piracy who would then be labled as pirates by those attacked.

Funny thing was the people who all hate pirates as they are all hated the idea of no pirates too lol. I really think people just like to be mad.

[Justme]

There are in my mind, 2 groups of the " anti " pirate.

Group A.Those who want the pirate faction to resemble what they think history/Disney/movies/etc tell us pirates are.

Group B . Those who want pirates to be the hardest faction in game in what the developers originally are believed to have originally wanted.

Currently pirates as a faction don't really fall into either category, so now we have arguments between pro pirate status qou players, pirate haters group A, and pirate haters group B.

The devs task is to try and reach a compromise between all 3 that makes each happyish.

Not sure if that's really possible.

[Babble]

The devs task is to try and reach a compromise between all 3 that makes each happyish.

Not sure if that's really possible.

Sure it is.

 

 

 

The easiest solution to this problem is this:

 

1.)No more turning pirate.   Pirates are a nation.  You choose pirate at character creation.  They play the same as a nation.

 

2.) Create a hardcore pvp orientated faction not called pirate.  Which can become the hardmode so many people around in the development stages were excited about. 

 

 

This way the current pirate players can continue to play just as they want.  Nationals cant complain that rats are zerging due to their different game mechanics.   The 3rd faction who just wants to raid traders, and players all day can be happy.

 

 

Seems pretty cut and dry in my opinion.  No negative.  Everyone gets what they want.

[Mrdoomed]

Again i have to say , other than exploits, i dont know how thr devs can make those that are unhappy happy. Unless there is a difference in pirate ability from server to server then i stand by my original thought 2 months ago. Its not the faction its the players.

Pvp2 pirates have never been very strong ( for long) and are disorganized ( like pvp1 players want) and primarily do small raids with the occasional pb ( because the game says we need ports) but the pirates on pvp1 according to some are taking over the galaxy.

Whats the only difference? The players. Pvp1 players are not good enough or organized enough to stop the pirates seems to be the only difference. How else is it that the exact same faction has two completely different outcomes on two different servers?

This is what i would like answered before anything is changed to anyone. I mean the devs can change anything but if thr same people cant play then wjat does it matter ?

[Prater]

Unlike you ( plural form)  that keep complaining and try to find a way to make pirate weaker by the game mechanics. We never ask anything else than equal weapons to fight against the nations.

Anyone can play "real" pirate ( at least the way that you want us to play to), some nations are docking in pirate water free towns and attacking our traders or ganking us also, but we never complain that nations can play like pirate too, we just learn how to deal against it.

Anyway it seems like some national players complain alot about everything pirate do anyway, even if we sail in small ships like cutters to frigate class and raid your jamaica cost,  some of your players complain about it on the forums too, whilst that s something british royal navy did alot before, they came to Mortimer in big fleet to gank any newbie nearby before.

 

Pirates need to have the exact same mechanics as everyone else, or this argument will never end.  And until you have the exact same mechanics, you can stop saying that you already do, because you don't.

 

Pirates either need to be a nation that is exactly the same as every other nation, or they need to have major disadvantages that balance their current major advantages.  First of all, turning pirate has no consequence, and is sort of encouraged in ways, especially when nations are getting majorly defeated.  Next, the ability to attack each other means that players can be blacklisted for not working together and attacked on sight.  Or, you can use it to escape from enemies by continually defensive tagging each other.

[Galileus]

that balance their current major advantages.

 

What major advantages? Geez, Im asking for that for ages, and everyone repeats "advantages, advantages!", yet no-one can actually point out what advantages these are!

[Lytse Pier]

What major advantages? Geez, Im asking for that for ages, and everyone repeats "advantages, advantages!", yet no-one can actually point out what advantages these are!

 

It is something I would like to know too. The only advantages that I could think of is that they have easier access to Pirate Frigates due to them being closer to their home port and perhaps that they can have some infighting, however that was already limited last year by new rules in this Tribunal thread

[KrakkenSmacken]

What major advantages? Geez, Im asking for that for ages, and everyone repeats "advantages, advantages!", yet no-one can actually point out what advantages these are!

I'm pretty sure there are only two.

 

1.) One way funnel of players attacking own nation and switching to pirate.

 

2.) Mechanics that revolve around the "pirates can attack each other".

 

Thing is I have never seen anyone offer a solution to how to handle the removal of those mechanics, especially the (1.). Imagine the PB "fun" if every nation could self conflict without consequence so alts not only drive around, steal important slots, or ram in a PB, but are in fact able to shoot at friendlies and not switch teams.  

 

The Tribunal is a crap method for dealing with this.  People dedicated to being spoilers will A.) get a new account if banned. B.) Move on and be replaced by a similarly minded person.

 

It's like playing whack a mole.

 

Also "pirates can attack each other" is very much a pirate like thing to do, the very thing everyone screaming "be more like pirates" keeps griping about.

 

Only one team can "win", and on PvP1 that team is the pirates right now.  If the other teams have a problem with that they should band together against a common enemy and face the single foe in a coordinated manner.

Edited April 7, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Prater]

What major advantages? Geez, Im asking for that for ages, and everyone repeats "advantages, advantages!", yet no-one can actually point out what advantages these are!

I always outline the advantages and have done so several times.

 

Pirates want to be a nation.

 

Make them a nation, exactly like every other nation.  It isn't that hard.

 

Pirates always cry about nationals who want to nerf them.

 

I'm a national who doesn't want to ruin their game, and they still resist when I say, make them exactly like every other nation.

 

If they want to take part in port conquest, they need to be like every other nation.

[Babble]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't much matter if pirates have advantages or not.

 

If the pirate faction is going to be a nation then it should play the same as every other nation.  

[Mrdoomed]

I'm pretty sure there are only two.

1.) One way funnel of players attacking own nation and switching to pirate.

2.) Mechanics that revolve around the "pirates can attack each other".

Thing is I have never seen anyone offer a solution to how to handle the removal of those mechanics, especially the (1.). Imagine the PB "fun" if every nation could self conflict without consequence so alts not only drive around, steal important slots, or ram in a PB, but are in fact able to shoot at friendlies and not switch teams.

The Tribunal is a crap method for dealing with this. People dedicated to being spoilers will A.) get a new account if banned. B.) Move on and be replaced by a similarly minded person.

It's like playing whack a mole.

Also "pirates can attack each other" is very much a pirate like thing to do, the very thing everyone screaming "be more like pirates" keeps griping about.

Only one team can "win", and on PvP1 that team is the pirates right now. If the other teams have a problem with that they should band together against a common enemy and face the single foe in a coordinated manner.

I made a very very easy and doable way to eliminate this isue but as usual the people with all these " issues" ignored them. Here is a very short version.

If anyone attacks their own faction they get no xp , no gold no capture.

If nationals attack each other the same rule applies BUT they dont turn pirate they turn **pick a color** and are KOS to all for a set amount of time per infraction and can NOT use any friendly port only free ports and they still gain no xp from friendly attacks AND are woth no xp to attack. IE they are temporarily pirates essentially without becoming a pirate.

Could not be any more easy. Lord.

Also if i can and have known one way for any national to completely screw pirates by using this " exploit" i cant believe not one person has done it.

You could wreck pirates in a week or two tops.

[Mrdoomed]

What major advantages? Geez, Im asking for that for ages, and everyone repeats "advantages, advantages!", yet no-one can actually point out what advantages these are!

The only real advantage pirates have now that the xp exploit is supposed to be gone is that pirates play better. Thats what they want fixed. Theu want pirates to not be allowed to play better.

Its hard for them to say that so they just scream advantage. ..THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERYONE just the usual suspects.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I made a very very easy and doable way to eliminate this isue but as usual the people with all these " issues" ignored them. Here is a very short version.

If anyone attacks their own faction they get no xp , no gold no capture.

If nationals attack each other the same rule applies BUT they dont turn pirate they turn **pick a color** and are KOS to all for a set amount of time per infraction and can NOT use any friendly port only free ports and they still gain no xp from friendly attacks AND are woth no xp to attack. IE they are temporarily pirates essentially without becoming a pirate.

Could not be any more easy. Lord.

Also if i can and have known one way for any national to completely screw pirates by using this " exploit" i cant believe not one person has done it.

You could wreck pirates in a week or two tops.

 

So along the same line as a national AI that "carries contraband".  A flag that sets them up as wanted or something.

 

I would peel out the ports ban, and add in a fine that is based on all sorts of factors (Total BR in fight so if it was a PB for example it could cost more than the flag did to start it, damage dealt, time spent in instance (Longer more fine), etc, because players should always have agency in my opinion.  

 

I would make it so the "wanted" lasted until they paid the fine off, and make national AI always try to kill them.  Bounties of 50% of the fine could also work, but the bounty would need to be paid out by the player at the time they were sunk/captured automatically.

 

Negative balance would need to be possible.

 

Gold and XP gains at 1/5th (except mission reward) until the fine is paid.

 

Of course that would make Pirates even more advantageous to play, unless for game reasons they had the same restrictions.  But that would not be very "pirate" in flavor.

Edited April 7, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Mrdoomed]

So along the same line as a national AI that "carries contraband". A flag that sets them up as wanted or something.

I would peel out the ports ban, and add in a fine that is based on all sorts of factors (Total BR in fight so if it was a PB for example it could cost more than the flag did to start it, damage dealt, time spent in instance (Longer more fine), etc, because players should always have agency in my opinion.

I would make it so the "wanted" lasted until they paid the fine off, and make national AI always try to kill them. Bounties of 50% of the fine could also work, but the bounty would need to be paid out by the player at the time they were sunk/captured automatically.

Negative balance would need to be possible.

Of course that would make Pirates even more advantageous to play, unless for game reasons they had the same restrictions. But that would not be very "pirate" in flavor.

Yeah a fine could be used too but i only said port ban so they got they "feel of a rat" for just a short time.

I dont think it would give pirates much of an advantage (i see a HUGE disadvantage with it) because pirates still can get nothing but a hard time from attacking each other and being known as a pirate who attacks his own.

What did you see as an advantage i may have overlooked something.

[Mrdoomed]

Once again those with the biggest tears completely ignored a quick easy fi, for their biggest problem.

I rest my case. Keeping kickong thier asses pirates they are getting what they deserve. Once we ate forced to merge there will be even more pirates!

[Justme]

Once again those with the biggest tears completely ignored a quick easy fi, for their biggest problem.

I rest my case. Keeping kickong thier asses pirates they are getting what they deserve. Once we ate forced to merge there will be even more pirates!

Your the only one here who has tears over the though of making pirates harder as was the original intent of the developers.

[Ruthless4u]

There are in my mind, 2 groups of the " anti " pirate.

Group A.Those who want the pirate faction to resemble what they think history/Disney/movies/etc tell us pirates are.

Group B . Those who want pirates to be the hardest faction in game in what the developers originally are believed to have originally wanted.

Currently pirates as a faction don't really fall into either category, so now we have arguments between pro pirate status qou players, pirate haters group A, and pirate haters group B.

The devs task is to try and reach a compromise between all 3 that makes each happyish.

Not sure if that's really possible.

Interesting point, to many disagree over what pirates should be for there ever to be a real solution. I'm in the camp of hoping the devs make pirates some more unique than a nation clone. They do that and I will be happy to switch to them. Sadly that would likely drive away most of the current pirate faction.

[Prater]

What in the name of God are you going on about ? 1v1s ? Still waiting what ?

Youre fairly normal and i even put a disclaimer that it wasnt pertaining to all WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND, guess you chose to take offense.

Prater ive read all your stuff youre a smart guy so if you think about what i said and all possibilities that exist you will get it. If you dont then PM me ill talk to you since youre reasonable.

Also im not sure how you guys all get comparisons between server pirates and national pirates as a personal inslut and duel challenge. Gota chill out bro.

Edit

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST PLEASE READ WHAT IVE SAID ONE MILLION BLEEPING TIMES I FLIPPING AGREE WITH YOU I AGREE WITH YOU I AGREE WITH YOU ! PIRATES SHOULD HAVE EXACT SAME GAME PLAY AS NATIONALS ! IS THAT PLAIN ENOUGH FOR YOU ??

jesus no wonder pirates win they are the only ones with brains.

 

I am the one who claimed that Pirates have major advantages.  You said that such people are afraid of pirates.  No, I am not.  And I'm still waiting for the 1v1 on you claiming I need to learn the game.