Denmark-Norway reaching out to Sweden.

[Fesevoa]

Before this happened to Sweden I voiced my opinion this was a problem when it was happening to Spain. I hope if anything comes from this it is that we for the most part, unanimously agree that the Port Battle conquest system is deeply flawed and needs priority discussion.

[Charles Caldwell]

Before this happened to Sweden I voiced my opinion this was a problem when it was happening to Spain. I hope if anything comes from this it is that we for the most part, unanimously agree that the Port Battle conquest system is deeply flawed and needs priority discussion.

 

I think the worst thing would be for the Swedish clans to throw in the towel. Stay Swedish, stay proud and together, and we 'the NA community' will get you back on track!

[Fesevoa]

I think the worst thing would be for the Swedish clans to throw in the towel. Stay Swedish, stay proud and together, and we 'the NA community' will get you back on track!

 

We won't be going anywhere.

 

I believe Long Term, the devs need to make a choice - for realism or balance. Having the Danish and Swedish capitals on top of each other was bound to create fated enemies, especially if the Swedish were going to be allied with the French. 8 Nations, some of which naturally get some player preference may be too much, and spreads the groups too thin, even on a giant map like this. I believe either the nations need to be scaled down to 4-5 (British, French, Spanish, Pirate, and maybe US since its popular and draws people to the game), or evenly spread out all the nations. This, coupled with new Port Battle mechanics, a way to interface with captured ports, and a long term idea of what the "campaigns" look like will be a recipe for success for this game.

[Wyspa]

Well in my opinion acting as a firefighter doesn't help much either. Let's be honest here, all people who are calming that the're conquering in the name of pointing out problems with PB are just justifying actions taken in self interest of their nation. However at the same time they're acting just as players would act anyway, that is using game mechanics to their advantage.

It is true that can discurage players on the losing side, but at the same I think we shouldn't just hold hands and be peacefull in the name of the "community".

If anything players acting this way (selfish) should give devs enough data to came up with a solution. More so when the changes will come, acting this way should point out new problems that could arise, encouraging new changes in the process.

To summerise, let players act as players would act, but at the same time don't pretend it is in the name of "grater good" . It is always about self interest, but it is the way it should be if we want to balance this game.

After all having base of players acting natural is the best way you can playtest things.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Wyspa

[donalddawkins]

I highly recommend that the swedes and the French continue to fight the Danes and ally together. The reason the danes want peace is so they cans secure one of their flanks and push back into Haiti. They know full well that the British have now a large number of clans to spare after kicking out the Spanish from Panama, and don't want to be sandwiched on a duel front when hostilities kick off. They will use their alliance with the pirates to reinforce that front, and may tip the sdcales if they end the Swedish wars of attrition.

 

If you continue to fight and push on the eastern front, they will be forced to choose to either surrender Haiti or hold onto their new acquisitions IE your lands. In any case, they will lose ground and ships in the process.

 

The worst case scenario for you is to have a Carthaginian peace and basically limp on without any ports, while the Danes shift fronts. Now, it is very unlikely the British will ever try to push past the Danish capital, and so really it is in both the French and the Swedish interest to assist one another against the Danes, as long as it doesn't extend to fighting the Dutch, who are currently allied to the British in Panama.

 

I am not privy to clan missions or aims, and from personal observation personally  think that the British are currently focussed on the American and pirate fronts to really create a large campaign fleet in such a short time. However it may be wise to check with the British clans who will wish to restore the balance of power in the east.

 

Just my two centd

Edited February 28, 2016 by donalddawkins

[Red Jack Walker]

I find this last statement the most interesting....

 

See I think this is key, the Danes crushing the life out of the Swedes and French does nothing for the entire community. Like the USN crushing the Spanish by taking No Timer ports. Its clear that the PB mechanic is flawed, yet it appears not to stop these nations from using it to impose their will on others.... Whats more amusing also is to watch these Blitzkrieg Port taking nation's complaining that these newly downtrodden don't follow their demands. Whats more they openly post under the pretext "it would help the community as a whole if they did". Laughable!

 

I personally feel the British Nation is now acting more as firefighters than a nation, putting out game changing fires instead of just playing and having fun. We (the British clans) and some of the Spanish Clans have turned around their fortune 'together'. Its taken a lot of planning and hard work on everyone's part. The Game mechanic forced this on us and now it appears to have happen again with the Danish attack on the Swedish/French.

 

We need to remember this game is in its testing stage still, and this ruthless attitude of using an unfinished mechanic to further National aims does nothing, I repeat nothing for the NA Community! Its all our responsibility to remember that, what we do now has an impact on the game we love, and has a direct bearing on its ultimate success in the future!

 

My personal view sorry, rant over

100% agree. Very well said, sir!

Edited February 28, 2016 by Red Jack Walker

[Meraun]

Let us all calm down and face some simple facts.

When it comes to the overwhelming amount of Swedish players that have contacted me the last couple of days begging for peace,

 

Tahts a lie. No organised Clan apporached you for Peace.

[Francis Tabernac]

I find this last statement the most interesting....

 

<snip>

 

My personal view sorry, rant over

 

Quite right; I couldn't agree more.

 

My only regret in all of this is that we weren't able to organise more aid for our Swedish allies, beyond encouragement here. This is something I and many others hope to rectify. In that spirit I look forward to continuing to fight the good fight, regardless of how many ports we're left with.

[JTW]

Tahts a lie. No organised Clan apporached you for Peace.

Dude, he mentions the exact same thing in the same post. 

[Quineloe]

I wonder if the fact that multiple Swedish players begged for peace is good enough, or if Herminator insists on the big clans also begging for mercy to appease his ego.

 

Either way, with zero ports the game is pretty much unplayable. So our best bet at this point is that the Swedish players only quit until the map reset, and not for good.

[Belize]

why should the swe players quit? Or why should we make peace`? so they can steamroll the west?

[Карл Лейфсен]

I wonder if the fact that multiple Swedish players begged for peace is good enough, or if Herminator insists on the big clans also begging for mercy to appease his ego.

 

Either way, with zero ports the game is pretty much unplayable. So our best bet at this point is that the Swedish players only quit until the map reset, and not for good.

Hear us, pls. 

 

The offer given by the Danish-Norwegian delegation was the following:

We keep Fort Baai(discussable), Aves, Terre-de-Bas.

We give to Sweden all other ports east of the The Settlement / Fort Baai Barrier, and North of Terre-de-Bas.

We also demanded them to ally with us to make a new Scandinavian Union, leaving their alliance with SLRN and French.

 

The offer mean, that Sweden can take all ports back. We don't need to ruine Sweden. Denmark wants a normal relations without hate. Sweden can have ports back. She must say only one word - "peace". 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Карл Лейфсен

[Grim DeGrim]

Peace.

[Карл Лейфсен]

Peace.

Are you a official voice of Sweden? 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Карл Лейфсен

[donalddawkins]

British propaganda riding in on The White Horse. Plain as day to see who is playing to crush everyone else but a holier than thou statement on the forums. 

 

Lets look at the figures approx port numbers after a quick scan of the map.

 

Brits 88 ports.

American 45 ports.

Spain 32 ports.

Dutch 41 ports.

Danes 37 ports.

France 16 ports.

Sweden 1 port.

 

Pirates irrelevant.

 

Clear indication here of the biggest land grabbing and aggressive nation, yet you talk about other nations playing to crush lol. Oh the hypocrisy, may be time to unite all nations versus the nation that has gained most from its greedy self serving policies but claims to be firefighting to save the game. Haha an impressive claim that just does not stack up.

It's balance of power politics. A longstanding British tradition!

 

To stay at the top, we make sure other nations are large enough to fight and limit each other's power through competition, attacking any nation that gains an upper hand over other surrounding  nations and preventing a counter blob from appearing to challenge us.

 

You may argue that this is a fairly unpleasant form of politics, but doing business this way keeps the smaller nations in game, the larger nations in check and the british at the top.  It also means that we won't fully crush an opposing nation, as it simply won't work for us in the long term (vendettas dies hard, as shown in the dutch, French and Swedish wars).

 

It's also a fairly rational politic, we can't over advance a certain sector or  the other nations will turn on us and we will over-extend, and it keeps our national diplomacy fairly rational as it doesn't lead to ridiculous demands (no point dominating another nation when we need it to keep a sector in check). It has led to fair diplomacy with the dutch, and a somewhat sympathetic diplomacy towards the Spanish, even though nearly all clans agree that diplomatic talks with them are difficult to say the least.

 

Of course, not all clans abide by this policy, and pubbers may wish to expand on their own. However, it is unlikely that the British will truly blob the map as it's geographic position is simply too vulnerable to coalition agreements. Instead, you should really be much more worried about the pirates; they may be allying with you now, but once they blob enough they will turn unto their former allies.

 

To the swedes and the French, I say time is on your side; have talks with the british and the dutch while either playing an alt account on a different faction or simply building up reserve third rates until an co-operative campaign can be reached. It can be made, as the british clans in panama made it with the dutch clans, and we even had british ships blockading Spanish ports side by side with dutch vessels. That means in theory you can have british fleets drive over to the Swedish capital and help defending outside enemy ports while you capture them.

 

If you make peace now, you may as well be a Danish vassal state, and there are still plenty of options to consider before you make peace agreements that will affect your nation in the long run.

Edited February 28, 2016 by donalddawkins

[Grim DeGrim]

Are you a official voice of Sweden? 

 

I do not know for certain...whom is here for Sweden to say otherwise?

[Quineloe]

British propaganda riding in on The White Horse. Plain as day to see who is playing to crush everyone else but a holier than thou statement on the forums. 

 

Lets look at the figures approx port numbers after a quick scan of the map.

 

Brits 88 ports.

American 45 ports.

Spain 32 ports.

Dutch 41 ports. -1 New Edinburgh.

Danes 37 ports.

France 16 ports.

Sweden 1 port.

 

Pirates irrelevant.

 

Clear indication here of the biggest land grabbing and aggressive nation, yet you talk about other nations playing to crush lol. Oh the hypocrisy, may be time to unite all nations versus the nation that has gained most from its greedy self serving policies but claims to be firefighting to save the game. Haha an impressive claim that just does not stack up.

 

Make that 89 ports in 1 hour or so lol.

 

 

Let's just ignore that many of those ports were neutral ports sitting between ports we already owned from the beginning, or that they were ports no one in the nation used such as central America.

We've also taken zero ports from nations right next to their capital.

Britain started with a number of ports almost as high as Spain, except we kept them. In what world that is aggressive land grabbing is beyond me.

 

"Play to crush" accusations against Britain are the most hilarious thing I've ever read here.  Are you seriously holding it against us that we took Pedro Cay, Saint Ann, Prinzapolka etc?

 

 

 

Hear us, pls. 

 

The offer given by the Danish-Norwegian delegation was the following:

We keep Fort Baai(discussable), Aves, Terre-de-Bas.

We give to Sweden all other ports east of the The Settlement / Fort Baai Barrier, and North of Terre-de-Bas.

We also demanded them to ally with us to make a new Scandinavian Union, leaving their alliance with SLRN and French.

 

The offer mean, that Sweden can take all ports back. We don't need to ruine Sweden. Denmark wants a normal relations without hate. Sweden can have ports back. She must say only one word - "peace". 

 

How nice the Swedes were supposed to surrender two ports to you that weren't theirs to begin with

 

Also demanding an Alliance, you really think that would have worked?

 

 

Are you a official voice of Sweden? 

Since he is French, and so are two of the ports you named were French before the weekend, he's just as qualified to accept.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Quineloe

[Johannes Zoutman]

Quite right; I couldn't agree more.

 

My only regret in all of this is that we weren't able to organise more aid for our Swedish allies, beyond encouragement here. This is something I and many others hope to rectify. In that spirit I look forward to continuing to fight the good fight, regardless of how many ports we're left with.

Likewise, sir! It has been a pleasure to battle the French Navy.

 

/salute

[hanserrr]

 

 

We need to remember this game is in its testing stage still, and this ruthless attitude of using an unfinished mechanic to further National aims does nothing, I repeat nothing for the NA Community! Its all our responsibility to remember that, what we do now has an impact on the game we love, and has a direct bearing on its ultimate success in the future!

 

My personal view sorry, rant over

 

While I personally agree with you in this, and agree that the danes took it a little too far this weekend (hopefully not making people quit the game and their nation), are you really saying that if we didn't show up to defend against you in your attempts to take Higuey, you wouldn't take another port?

 

It might be that something you had used several hours planned was just over in 30 minutes, what then? You have all your forces in a splendid position with every able body ready to fight, that thirst for some PvP isn't gone after rolling down some towers.

What would've happened if you take let's say Samana and Macao afterwards with little to no resistance, using 15 minutes each to capture and then you find out that the timer for Aguadilla, Cabo Rojo, Guanica etc was just coming up, meeting no resistance besides a couple of frigates in the earlier PBs, you wouldn't venture further? Would you really not try to demoralize us from our, I'm guessing, slightly bothersome attempts to seize the likes of Bani, or just to aquire a bufferzone?

 

Well, we seized an opportunity, one that should not be possible to seize. I highly doubt that many other nations would even considered the "We can't go any further because it destructive for the community", unfortunately we all want to win, and crush the enemy we have been fighting hard with for several weeks.

 

 

I'm sorry if my wording and choice of words might not be the very best, I'm merely trying to state that while  we might have gone to far, I personally dislike this:

 

and this ruthless attitude of using an unfinished mechanic to further National aims does nothing, I repeat nothing for the NA Community! "

 

A subtle accusation of the danes "cheating" their way to victory and ruining for the game, in which I'm trying to defend. I believe there is not many nations/clans out there in NA who could say they wouldn't have kept going for more ports in our situation. 

 

This should be fixed, but seeing that there is nothing hindering situations like this now, we as the players has to set the rules for ourself.

 

 

I would also like to add that we did not do as the USN, taking ports without timers, we fought in both swedish and french prime-time(according to defence timers). (It might be one or two exceptions furthest south)

 

This is just my personal opinions.. 

 

 

(I don't want Sweden to be reduced to a one port minor)

[Zlobny]

Do we have peace? I need my compensation of cargo current price on Fir Logs in Christiansted + 50K price of traders brig + 1M moral (time) compensation:

 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498016551079314382/3C8AA1584DF5CF814C9B1874F1BE01701D27BDCC/ 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498016551079314835/C191C8573A4B27CE08E4CAB7E22BAC8EF1DEAABB/

[Mighty_Alex]

Let's just ignore that many of those ports were neutral ports sitting between ports we already owned from the beginning, or that they were ports no one in the nation used such as central America.

Neutral ports, what? Since when Spanish Main and French Haiti are considered neutral? Do you even remember how the map looked at the beginning?

We've also taken zero ports from nations right next to their capital.

Is it because Britain such a noble nation? Or because their capital is right in the middle of the map? Danish capital is within spitting distance of Swedish capital.

How nice the Swedes were supposed to surrender two ports to you that weren't theirs to begin with 

We offered the Swedish 10 ports, (including the whole island of Guadeloupe) That is 10 more than they had at the start. How is it not a generous offer?

 

Also demanding an Alliance, you really think that would have worked?

Yes, because there's only one direction the Swedish can expand. (south) And a common enemy means alliance. The location of the capitals and relative strength of the danish nation won't let them expand east. Of course they can choose to not expand at all. But they will only play second fiddle to other nations then. (which they've been doing so far)  We want from the Swedish peaceful coexistence, without mutual ganking and disrupting each other's missions. But if the swedish refuse peace, well, they probably think that a one-port nation is a better alternative then. We don't want them to be reduced to their capital, but we also don't want to have a strong enemy in our backyard.

[Francis Tabernac]

Do we have peace? I need my compensation of cargo current price on Fir Logs in Christiansted + 50K price of traders brig + 1M moral (time) compensation:

 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498016551079314382/3C8AA1584DF5CF814C9B1874F1BE01701D27BDCC/ 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498016551079314835/C191C8573A4B27CE08E4CAB7E22BAC8EF1DEAABB/

 

I'm glad to see someone's still willing to put up a fight.

[Herminator]

I think the worst thing would be for the Swedish clans to throw in the towel. Stay Swedish, stay proud and together, and we 'the NA community' will get you back on track!

 

Ofcourse our enemy on the other flank would say that. Not having any own interest in that choice what so ever

 

We won't be going anywhere.

 

I believe Long Term, the devs need to make a choice - for realism or balance. Having the Danish and Swedish capitals on top of each other was bound to create fated enemies, especially if the Swedish were going to be allied with the French. 8 Nations, some of which naturally get some player preference may be too much, and spreads the groups too thin, even on a giant map like this. I believe either the nations need to be scaled down to 4-5 (British, French, Spanish, Pirate, and maybe US since its popular and draws people to the game), or evenly spread out all the nations. This, coupled with new Port Battle mechanics, a way to interface with captured ports, and a long term idea of what the "campaigns" look like will be a recipe for success for this game.

An interesting twist would be to make a Scandinavian nation actually uniting the Swedish and Denmark-Norway.

 

 

Tahts a lie. No organised Clan apporached you for Peace.

 

Actually one did, and asked for more time. Something we could not provide.

 

I wonder if the fact that multiple Swedish players begged for peace is good enough, or if Herminator insists on the big clans also begging for mercy to appease his ego.

 

Either way, with zero ports the game is pretty much unplayable. So our best bet at this point is that the Swedish players only quit until the map reset, and not for good.

What do you know about my ego? I got alot of messages during the campaign from players that wanted to know why the major clans did not want peace, and begged us to try to convince them to a treaty.

I guess they don't know about the old alliances or even feel the loyalty towards those old alliances the same way you might do

In the end we ended up with an agreement we feel we can live with:

Denmark-Norway returns all ports East of Fort Baai, except for Marigot.

Swedish agreed to a non aggresion pact.

No attacks on ports.

Neither nations are allowed to attack player Traders.

Open World PVP is allowed.

 

French came to the table offering us nothing, but demanding their ports back.

We ended up to convince them to the following.

They get all ports except AVES and Terre-de-Bas

Terre-de-Bas will be renegotiated in 2 weeks.

France agreed to a non aggresion pact.

No attacks on ports.

Neither nations are allowed to attack player Traders.

NO PVP.

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Herminator

[Herminator]

I'm glad to see someone's still willing to put up a fight.

Not at all nice to see someone not respecting the treaty

 

[Francis Tabernac]

Not at all nice to see someone not respecting the treaty

 

 

Well, agree to disagree, mon amis. Not of all us are pleased with the decisions of our leaders, though for the sake of unity I'll say no more.