beagleplease Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 At the moment this game heavily favors nations with more players and that is unlikely to change on PVP 1 Spain is getting utterly destroyed which is likely going to lead to players leaving Spain and a lot of those players also leaving the game entirely. The game is in need of a real diplomacy system to allow lower pop nations to either band together or join with a more powerful ally to help defend them. I have posted a suggestion in the suggestions area but I'm guessing it will get more attention here and also would like to keep that thread for suggestions rather than discussion of suggestions. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10771-the-spanish-problem-diplomacy-is-needed/#entry190989 So let us discuss how diplomacy should work, how pirates should fit into it and how soon diplomacy is needed. I believe it is needed sooner rather than later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Why did you just make two threads on the same subject? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwis Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Pirates have no role to play in diplomacy, that should not be a nation in my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleplease Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Why did you just make two threads on the same subject? as i said in this post i want this one to be a discussion thread and keep the other one to suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Nettle Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) So whenever a nation starts to lose and players quit the rules should be redefined? What happens after an alliance is made and Spain is still destroyed? You can't force people to help. What it seems that you really want is to be able to enforce peace when you start to lose. No. Let Spain "die" and the rest will compete for its ports. You can always become a conquered people and assimilate into your new American masters. Or their enemies. In POTBS before it went under the same victim rhetoric was applied. It never fails. No one wants to play a competitive game. They want to conquer until they are defeated then scream for intervention and restarts. POTBS is all but dead. Imitate POTBS and this game will meet the same fate. Personally, I would never under any circumstances come to a forum after being whooped with a plea for intervention. It's very unbecoming. Win or lose with class. Edited February 18, 2016 by Sea Nettle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krists Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Most of Spain was a mistake to conclude an alliance with England, which they threw. Pirates at the moment are the only ones to Spain coinciding interests and could take some cooperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Ugh sea nettle if you're so familiar with POBS, how come you're advocating going the exact same route? This is an alpha game, it is subject to change. Your "If you lose. Quit the game" approach has no place here 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Nations will ebb and flow and rise and fall. Start recruiting start offering new players help with getting started including training and help with ships ect. I see no other action but whining on the forums from Spain. You cant dominate the game from start to finish you have to work at it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Fishy Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Pirates have no role to play in diplomacy, that should not be a nation in my opinion.I think they should have a minor role where they can privateer for a nation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MetaBaron Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think you are looking at this wrong, Historically Spain was a major powerhouse and held a lot of territory, in the game Spain is not as popular and cannot sustain the ports it started with. I really don't see the confusion or problem with this. Is it somehow expected that Spain should keep more ports than it can defend because in this was the case historically? Just let the territories settle as the population moves around. Its all fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleplease Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Personally, I would never under any circumstances come to a forum after being whooped with a plea for intervention. It's very unbecoming. Win or lose with class. Yeah well for the record I'm playing American and "whooping" a nation that can't really fight back is neither fun or good for the game. I can also see that there are people in this thread with no understanding of the economy in this game if you think Spain with the few ports it has left can possibly hope to build ships for a serious resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) The problem I see is that Spain for some reason thinks they deserve to have a lot of ports because that is how they start. If you have low population, you should have fewer ports. Centralize your population into a small area and the total population doesn't matter as much. Spain's problem is that from the start they had players split all over the place. They have been fighting the Dutch over Colombia while holding onto Panama. They were taking neutral ports in Mexico and I assume trying to prevent the Americans from taking them, while at the same time they had a group trying to control Cuba. In the end they have ended up with pretty much nothing because trying to fight on so many fronts is stupid, especially with low population. The problem with Spain is not diplomacy tools, nor is it population. The problem with Spain is their eyes are too big for their stomach. Edited February 18, 2016 by Pirate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think what Spain wants is a capital not surrounded by enemies but with a few poets like every other nation has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kameradenschwein Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I will add my 2 cents to this discussion, despite my experience that such discussions in a forum do not get much attention by the developers as in the case a developer would have started the discussion which would show they are interested into that specific topic. In my opinion the whole problem with nations getting wiped out can be solved by a combination of certain mechanics. I for myself think that the more ports a nation owns, the more expensive it should get to be able to take a new one – up to a point where a lot of players need to collect money and even above that to a point where it „ridiculously“ expensive. All in all, the bigger a nation is – the more penalties it should get. I would also add a high security area for every nation. This should be the Capital and lets say 3 to 5 Cities near by. These areas other nations can enter but it would be pointless. The cities in the high security area should be guarded by overpowered ai fleets that would spawn immediately to destroy any fleet that is not the nations one. This way you could easily install a save zone for players. Furthermore I think based on the number of ports a nation has ai fleets should patrol their territory. Of course only in a defence way. The larger a nation is, the less defensive ai support it gets – up to a pinot where there is no ai support at all. To make it short The larger a nation gets – the more expensive it should be for them to take a port and lesser up to no ai fleets should patrol their waters to help to defend another question which is linked to it is the possibility to win the game and reset it to start all over again. I would be highly in favour of this idea to prevent the game become a never ending story of a few nations dominate the game as long as game-labs wishes to keep the servers running. A solution would be easy to bind it as a zero sum game to the number of ports/cities. I was thinking of something about 40% of the cities to win and by that resat the game for another round. I guess something around 40% is reasonable if you take into account that the game has at this point 8 nations (with pirates) gives the remaining nations a share of 7,5% each. Directly linked to this is the need of a diplomatic system. I would suggest a democratic system with the basic rule – one player one vote. You may debate if and how to add certain barriers. Like a minimum level to be allowed to vote and a time window of activness. I would recommend a simple majority system over a 2/3 majority. It is a basic political fact that with the increase of voters the less likely you will get a 2/3 majority. Because it is a mmo i would arrange the voting as an ongoing voting and not the problem which Rousseau faced when he was debating about the peoples will at the very moment of that one voting process. I just draw a very easy example. A player of a nation can set his diplomatic wishes like a switch. I would like to be in peace with that other nation. As soon as 51% of the considered voters turned their switch to peace the diplomatic decision of that nation is opting for peace. If now the other nation also receives a 51% simple majority – there shall be peace, but if enough players of one of the nations switch back to war – well, there will be the smell of gunpowder in the morning again. To prevent an ongoing switching between war and peace there should be something like a one week truce in case there has been negotiated a peace. Well, it turns out i wrote way more than I intended to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindahbawx Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Pirates have no role to play in diplomacy, that should not be a nation in my opinion. If you remove pirates as a nation, you're gonig to need to full wipe and reset the map and re-shuffle the starting locations. As it stands, they're the only thing stopping the USA from taking the entire North half of the map. Edited February 18, 2016 by Tindahbawx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Nettle Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Yeah well for the record I'm playing American and "whooping" a nation that can't really fight back is neither fun or good for the game. I can also see that there are people in this thread with no understanding of the economy in this game if you think Spain with the few ports it has left can possibly hope to build ships for a serious resistance. And why is a nation being soundly defeated bad for the game? Because the players will quit when they lose? So what? Under that notion whenever a group becomes disgruntled the game would be changed to suit them. Further, maybe you should leave the USA and join Spain. You are a part of the problem are you not? Sweden has from 7-9 ports at any given time. They do just fine. If they had nothing but a capital and Freeport access they would be just fine, albeit with a harsher experience. That harsh existence is a great motivation for changing their circumstance. If it's not, then it's one down in the king of the hill contest. Edited February 18, 2016 by Sea Nettle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 We don't need yet another thread on Spain and population. To discuss diplomacy ideas, there is a thread here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8775-global-diplomacy Locking as a duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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