Lytse Pier

Goodmorning Kierrip, Thank you also for responding swiftly. I am sent out not to discuss, nor judge, as only history will judge the participants. I am only here because we take the French input, seen as a respected and mature player group, towards an important ruling of us very seriously. Our diplomats are sent forth to come back to the Council with an answer to the question if a white peace is feasible in order that my Council can make a proper ruling with also the French players group's input. We, like mentioned in my previous posts, are in principle for peace in the eastern waters but a perpetual war against the French is also fine as you are good opponents. Our community however does not benefit from it as "sailing east" and fighting you guys a third time is becoming rather repetitive. I am sure it must be for you guys too sometimes. A white peace with PvP area containing a few ping-pong-ports between Trinidad and Isla de Margarita could be a solution, but our biggest question is if the French are also in principal for a white peace and a refocus of the east. If you would be so kind to assess the mood of your Council in finding a different "total war" enemy than the Dutch, and return the answer to our inquiry for a white peace, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,

No worries, I am sure the last posts have cleared up a lot of noise on the landline and the Dutch question is as clear as the French answer tomorrow.

Yes sir, it was a bit obscured by the other posts in the thread, but here it is again: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14010-pvp1-the-dutch-join-the-war-against-france/?p=271056 A simple yes or no from your Council should suffice. Edit: and it's a request, not a demand.

If you could read my post above, I'd appreciate it. It is not about what we can or cannot do as a Dutch Nation, it is about what we'd like to do, and for one that is not reliving a third French War like it was groundhog day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVeDx9fk60

Thank you, Horail. Your quick response is much appreciated. I suspected as much. I don't want things to derail because of an unthoughtful moment of individuals. Could you please inform your Council that my Council is growing restless and find themselves left in the dark at the moment on the position of the French Council on this matter? Everyone is coming out of the woodwork now with all kinds of statements and opinions which is not a preferable route. My Council would just like to know if your Council thinks peace through a white peace is a feasible option so they can prepare a proper ruling and a decent response towards your Nation. You can use the proper connections of Praefect and Glazo to relay the answer to. We would like a return answer tomorrow evening before our national meeting to prevent a ruling that goes without your Councils input and the likely chance the ruling gives a decision that prevent furhter talks. Thank you in advance and bonne chance.

Thank you sir for your affirmation. To bad it had to come to the forums. Can you please affirm you are talking on behalf of the French Council, so we can present the right information towards the Dutch Council for a proper ruling on it? I don't want it to be held against me that we are just talking about your opinion in the French Council and not about the actual opinion of the French Council. Thanks in advance.

I see, then you are in your right to be misinformed.

Monsieur, it is what it is and what I posted. You may struggle to find it clear within you own head, but you are spamming so many other nations into this that you most likely confuse it with the United Nations. We are the United Provinces, an entire different thing. This is between the French and the Dutch. No more, no less. It is a simple question to ask the French player base on which we do not get a clear answer from your diplomats: are we kissing or are we fighting 'till the end of times? Like I said, any answer is good, we hope for a peaceful one, if not paths will be reviewed and we deal with it.

Praefect, Glazo, is this a French diplomat? If this is the way you are spoken to and the talks have degenerated in, we will have a very short meeting tomorrow. .... a very, very short meeting.

Ladies, Gentlemen, mesdames, messieurs, Short memories don't make peace, they start wars or let unnecessary ones continue. The negotiated peace of the first French-Dutch war left the Trinidad area to the French as a gesture of involvement towards (not to the diplomats, not to the clan leaders, but) the player captains of the French Nation. "We", as in "most of the the Dutch Nation players", were at that time not interested in knocking down an enemy that was already down and wished for all players on this server to keep having an enjoyable experience. Although the vote was certainly not unanimous and I am personally still a bit bitter about how DAS and BOAT leadership were treated by some players in the Dutch Nation, peace eventually was accepted and we all hoped the French would get on their feet quickly again. Nevertheless, circumstances much beyond control of both Nations got us at odds again and this second time we pushed on as far as Castries and talks for peace were proposed with also an offer for a white peace, returning to the status-quo of the first engagement. The French declined and wished to fight on, to much disappointment of the common Dutch Captain that were holding the lines. The fun was gone. So, many of us called it a French defeat ourselves and sailed home to attend to their loved ones (read: have some fun in other games or actually talking to their wives again). The affair of states are simple and we can write all we want; however the fact is that the Dutch enjoy fighting the French. They are fun to sail against, act mature, and above all, are fun to talk to. Sadly to say it is not in our immediate interest to continue this dragging war, although, and I can say that quite clearly too it is also not necessary for us to end it at all. We are in a somewhat rich position to say that. Our proposal is and was to get back to the status-quo there was after the first war, assign a few ports in the east for the active captains of the Eastern Clans to duke it out, leaving both nations in the positions to concentrate on a more prosperous future. Win-win, and in my view a great sign of mutual respect for both communities; it seems as fair as it is currently possible now and we are willing to go, judging the current readiness of both war fleets. There you have it, out in the open, plain and clear to see for all that is saying he is misinformed. Naval Action is a game of mutual respect in anything we do, even waging war, and especially in achieving peace; It is what we try our hardest to fight for in the Dutch Nation. We know and see the French as our equals in this, it is perhaps even the reason why we fight so well against each other. A clear "Non, nous allons vous battre jusqu'à la fin des temps", is also an answer, which just leads our nations to other paths and other views. We are taking any situation as long as "maybe's" don't get dragged out as long this is going for now. So, are we kissing or are we fighting 'till the end of times.

This game is currently ruled by the people with a statistics and number fetish. Timer here, timer there, a bit more so, a bit less such, a few seconds added, some hitpoints tweaked, etc. This game needs more romantics creating lovely content that make it less worth to even consider a lonely gank, because there are much more fun things to do in the game, like getting your heavily guarded fleet of silver trying to be captured by pirates and when the do considerably hurting your economics and trading income.

"Trade in Asia must be maintained under the protection of our own weapons; and they have to be paid for from the profits of trade. We can't trade without war, nor make war without trade." --- Jan Pieterszoon Coen One does not go without the other. The game's essentials of warfare, but also the essentials of economy and trading should be developed. Moving goods is an essential aspect to proper gameplay for Nations and pirates alike. You cannot rely on players alone to move large volumes of goods, nor expect pirates to keep having joy in capping AI traders without hurting a nations commercial effort. I have a post here to outline some of those commerce aspects here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13491-trading-banking-and-the-european-markets-an-18th-century-look-at-it/?p=247268

I would limit the number of AI fleets you can create and the number of ships (or even shiptypes) you can add to them to prevent Santisima defented trader cutters. If you can set times like you suggested, what is there to stop a clan to protect their own AI shipping with their frigates against that pirate scum that haunt our trading lanes? An in advance scheduled event for the clan is great to organize other activities around and prepare your gaming moments in advance, instead of logging on and hoping something will be going on. It has a big thumbs up from me CeltiberoCaesar!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A new start for the active members of the Dutch CORE-clan. The creator and some officers of the Dutch CORE clan stopped playing the game. Although there are still some active players, there are no possibilities to change some internal structures without the creator role of the clan. Hence we decided to bring our activities into a new clan, structure and settings, opting for a more open/public role and self-enhanced gameplay from a cooperative perspective. We are proud to announce the public float of the “Compaignie heeren XIX”. Historically the “heeren XIX”, was the board of the Octroyed Dutch West Indies Compagnie and comprised of 19 representatives of the shareholders of the compagnie. Main goal of the company was to make a profit. This proved to be quite a challenge and the corporation went broke and the original nineteen directors were cut back to 10 directors in the early 1700’s before a restart. The company was eventually closed in 1792 and a third attempt to get things floating again was in 1800, but that endeavour failed all because of the sugar beets; but that is an entirely other story to tell, and I perhaps might do one day. ;-) So, we are fully aware of the historical facts around the “heeren XIX”and the Dutch West Indies Company and in advance we can tell you that, although we love our history, we are not going to reenact it in our new endeavor. Our clan/Company has set some different goals, which we’d like to lay out to you. Naval Action is a PvP game. To create better PvP content for our group of players our goals are specifically set to build an experience that is focused around cooperative gameplay and most of all having fun together. Group cohesion and common goals are as important as individual skill and prowess for PvP. This is why we have set up a system of cooperative gameplay based on building out an actual company within this sandbox, that has shares, pays out dividends, has employees, a board with directors, a trader fleet, a war fleet, actual accounting and financial statements and of course the only thing the game provides us at the moment for cooperative gameplay, a warehouse and warehouse wallet. It will be as much a social experiment for us as a content testing experience for this budding Naval Action game. The form we choose was just like the Dutch West Indies Compagnie. A public corporation, backed by a firm national octroi, which leaves far stretching possibilities for autonomy from The Hague’s political influences. ;-) So, what are we going to do? We will make a monthly financial statement about the state of the corporation; We publish a roster of it’s employees and their sphere of influence; We will publish the dividends that are payed out to the shareholders; We will be available to buy your goods and ships; We will be available to sell you goods and ships; We will be available to talk to members of any nation or origin to bring us profits; We will give feedback on our endeavours and experiences with the game mechanics during this endeavour; We will sail as a group to trade, fight, build, conquer, win and be defeated, all for company profit; We will all pledge firmly to be willing to give our (ingame) lives for country and profit; If you would like to be part of this experience we are trying to offer, to be part of a “real company” in the age of sail, don’t hesitate to contact our Heer van Keuring (or any member of the board that is available for you) to inquire about the possibilities. On behalf of the Heeren XIX, We are looking forward to trade with you, and we wish you safe sailing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- “Compaignie heeren XIX” - Employee Roster (All positions are based on actual historical roles within the Dutch East India Company). heer der Heeren, vacant, will be chosen amongst the Heeren. (Chairman of the board) heer van den Oorlogsvloot, Oliviervdp, (Director of the warfleet) heer van den Scheepsbouw, jointventure, (Director of shipbuilding) heer van den Equipage, Odin87nl, (Director of equipement) heer van den Handel, Bosch, (Director of commerce) heer van den Koopvaardijvloot, Tjerk Hiddes de Vries, (Director of the trading fleet) heer van den Pakhuysen, Morv, (Director of the warehouses) heer van Haags Besogne, Flamigant, (Director of relations) heer van den Rekenkamer, Lytse Pier, (Director of accounts and auditing) heer van Keuring, Bout bij Nacht, (Director of personnel) heer van Verkenning ende Gelegenheid, Cornelis Evertsen de Oude, (Director of development) heer van Besinning ende Ondersteuning, StanhopeNL, (Director of support) -- all “Heeren” have obtained 10 shares in the company at nominal value of 1 million gold Positions eligible for one share in the company at nominal value of 100.000,- guilders. Timmerman (Carpenter); Smid (Smithy); Scheepsbouwer, (Shipwright); Bevelhebber, (Commander); Koopman, (Merchant); Verkenner, (Scout); Role eligible for sailing with our company, but without shares and without many obligations. Kapitein, (Captain) ----------------------------------------------------------- For the Dutch that would like some fun reading: heer der Heeren, voorsitter des Raads ende Bestuur van den onderneming heer van den Oorlogsvloot, in den slach ende veroveringen neemt hij het voortouw heer van den Scheepsbouw, draagt sorg voor den toestand der vloot ende haar beschikbaarheid heer van den Equipage, den juiste voorraad voor één goede productie en handel is syn vakgebied heer van den Handel, regelt de juiste koopjes ende verhandelt den equipage surplus heer van den Koopvaardijvloot, voor transport ende verplaatsingsaken draait hy syn hand niet om heer van den Pakhuysen, tellingen ende beheer der voorraad vergt precisie alsook insicht. heer van Haags Besogne, regelt den goede ontvangst ende weest een voorbeeld voor gastvryheid heer van den Rekenkamer, één sorgvuldige administratie en tydige betaling sorgt voor één goede dividend heer van Keuring, draagt sorg voor den juyste besoldiging en prestaties van al het personeel heer van Verkenning ende Gelegenheid, niets ontgaat syn waakend oog ende scherp luusterend oor heer van Besinning ende Ondersteuning, hy weet uw werksaemheden te verlichtten door syne geest ende handen te leenen heer van Dralen en Talmen, sonder syn inbreng komt het ook goed heer van Stand, oud geld spekt den kas sonder hard werk (100.000 donatie per week) Timmerman, één schip sonder syn stukken vaart niet uyt Smid, maakt swaarden ende messen voor den stryd aan boord Scheepsbouwer, vakmanschap en meesterschap is wat hy brengt naar den heer van den Scheepsbouw Bevelhebber, leidt den stryd onder den heer van den Oorlogsvloot Koopman, syn handelswaar brengt geld en aansien in den lade Verkenner, één vloot beweecht, echter twee oogen spiedden. Kapitein, gaat syn eigen gang maar syn (handels)schip staat ter beschikking van den vloot

(English translation in second post) Octroy voors compaignie heeren neegentien (XIX). I. De Staten Generael der Vereenichde Nederlanden, allen den genen die dese jegenwoordige sullen sien ofte hooren lesen, Saluyt, Doen te weeten, dat wy bemerckende den welstant deser landen ende welvaeren van de ingesetenen van dien, principalyck te bestaen byde scheepvaert ende coophandel, die van allen ouden tijden vuyt deselve landen geluckelyck, ende met grooten zegen gedreven is geweest op alle landen ende coninckrycken, SOO IST dat wy, dan met gemeene vereenichde macht vande coopluyden, ende ingesetenen deser landen, ende dat tot dien eynde opgerecht sal werden eene generaele compaignie, ende daertoe te voorsien met behoorlyck octroy, ende met de privilegien ende exemptien ter eksploytasy vuyt dese vereenichde nederlanden, nochte oock van buyten deselve landen sal moegen vaeren, ofte negotieren opde custen ende landen van america, ofte westindien, ofte andere straten ende passagien, daerontrent gelegen, aan ten meest neegentien heeren uyt den gewesten gestaene voor de princen, welks bestuyr vorm geeve ende sal bestaen uyt ten minst tien hoofde ende voors limiten dese compaignie geaccordeert naer ten meest neegentien hoofde, ten aendele worde verpant één miljoen gulden per hoofde in ‘t bestuyr, ten kleinst aen participanten in grootte hondertduizent gulden denwelcke kapitael ten start tien toe neegentien miljoen gulden sal bedraagen. II Dat voorts de voors compagnie op onsen naeme ende authoriteyt, binnen …….. [Etc.etc.etc., the actual real historical octroi on which above text is based upon goes on for a good 11 pages and numerous articles!] link to the historical scans of the octroy: http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief/inventaris/gahetnascan/eadid/1.05.01.01/inventarisnr/13/level/file/scan-index/1/foto/NL-HaNA_1.05.01.01_13_01/fotouuid/211fe400-b64b-5406-0abd-e62dab0ef0e2 ---------------------------------- (loose translation into English) Octroi for the business endeavour for seventeen (XVII) merchants/lords. I. The State General of the United Provinces, to all who will see or are expected to read this, is greeted. In the importance of the welfare of our lands, that exists in principle because of shipping and trading, which since ancient times from the same lands are fortunate and blessed to be connected to other countries and kingdoms, IT IS DECIDED, that we, the united power of merchants and other citizens of these lands, are served that a general company shall be founded, backed up by a proper octroi, and with the privileges and exemptions to exploit from out of the united provinces, but also are allowed to sail beyond its borders, and may negotiate the coasts of the americas, named westindies, and other routes and passages in that area, and granted to at highest nineteen merchants/lords from the provinces, loyal to the prince of orange, who themselves shall form a board of at least ten persons, acting within accord of the limitations of the company towards a maximum of nineteen persons, who require to acquire shares of the amount of one million guilders, and are allowed to employ normal participants within the company with shares of one hundred thousand guilders, at the start of the company, generating starting capital between ten and nineteen million guilders. II. That furthermore the granted company in our name and authority, within …. [Etc.etc.etc., the actual real historical octroi on which above text is based upon goes on for a good 11 pages and numerous articles!] link to the scans of the octroy: http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief/inventaris/gahetnascan/eadid/1.05.01.01/inventarisnr/13/level/file/scan-index/1/foto/NL-HaNA_1.05.01.01_13_01/fotouuid/211fe400-b64b-5406-0abd-e62dab0ef0e2

If you lost a few fully upgraded production buildings I do know your sorrow and pain. If it was a first rate I can only say .... Not yet. ???? Nyurtle, eventhough it happens due to our own shortcomings and clicking, like Gallileus painfully and justly rubs in, it still warrants a quiet curse, a moisty tear and a liberating forum post. ????

Very nice analysis Krackensmacken. I fully agree with you. Just add some risk vs reward mechanism into the AI deliveries and it's game-on!

I would choose the regional capitals over the freeports to make it make ports actually worth fighting over with our first rates. I don't think the teleports detract from the submersive experience of sailing. You still have to sail to move goods and get into PVP or a mission. More teleporting does not mean less sailing, I think it will do the opposite and will create more ships on the seas. The sailing will be done in a more dynamic fashion across the map and more in ships that make sense and not a fast taxi cutter to get from ship to ship that makes no sense. All depends also on how the devs will scale the economy and risk versus reward systems. Less time necessary to reach your goals/targets or actually having to sail every ship to your outposts will definitely have great impact on economical and strategic gameplay.

I represent the last morsel of Odinism left in the Dutch Republic. For Wêda!

I understand the people that dislike the "taxi-service" that was created with the smuggler option. It is however convenient in not getting a feeling of wasting time and it adds to a friendlier/better user experience in my eyes. I have a compromise to suggest: Just allow ship deliveries only between freeports just like goods, but add the Nation's capitol as an exception to it. Make sure it takes a fee and time just like the goods delivery system. This ought to be a fair compromise between those that want only sailing and those that want shorter distances. Freeports are more or less regional hubs already for a lot of players. If you like some variation you could use the occupied regional capitals instead of the freeports for the ship deliveries to give those cities on the map more meaning and leave the goods delivery system to the freeports as trading loves freeports. Using the regional capitals over the freeports would have my preference, but that is a matter of taste I think.

Awesome idea, write me down.

I wholeheartedly agree. Now about that business proposal. This silver we obtained recently needs a new owner and we were thinking you guys might be the best party to trade with, shall we say we will do this like last time when... blablablablabla ....

"If you want to address the British Council, you'd better start learning German" --- unknown British captain combining his typical British humour with realism.

A bit too early for that, we are still in the neoclassic period during the Naval Action era, but I wholeheartedly agree the comic should be considered art instead of only 'artistic'. So do we all, if not with a wry smile, it will be with a raised eyebrow.