Kutai Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hello. Recently I have been feeling less and less like playing Naval Action. Some game mechanics have had a partial impact on that such as Port Timers, lack of end game content, Nation/Diplomacy work. However I understand that this is a Early Access game and that these are being worked on by the Devs. The main reason I have felt less like playing the game is the Community. I know a lot of other people who feel the same way. The Community has gone down hill quickly since the release of EA. The boards are full of people boasting, making snide comments, playing point the finger, insults, trolling etc.. the in game chat is similar. What finally made it click for me is when a conversation around Pirate mechanics got picked up by a Mod in Global chat who then proceded to insult all Pirates for playing the way we do and not the way he wants us to. Followed by abusive language. This of course was reported. However has our community fallen so much that even the mods are now feeling it? We could blame the game. We could blame the Devs or the Admin or the Mods but in actual fact it is OUR fault. We have allowed the Community to devolve into this state and have all played our part in it doing so. I am sure everyone has fallen victim to getting a bit too carried away but right now chat and forums are in a horrible state. So I make the suggestion that WE the Community tackle this. We are the only people that can improve the current state. I challenge especially the leaders of the Communities and Guilds to take this seriously. Lets not rely on the moderators or the admin who are all far too busy to activly solve every chat issue and take it upon ourselves to instead set an example for others to follow. There is no reason why we can not remain civil in this game. Win or lose. Some of my best times were fighting SLRN in Jereme where we both enjoyed the battles and anyone who shit talked from either side was promptly dealt with by their own side. Now new players who join are subjected to chats full of nonsense and normally several arguments going on at once. So leaders, if you see someone in your clan talking tripe, have a word. Set an example for all others to strive to replicate. If you get angry or annoyed, put your keyboard down and go for a walk. Yours sincerely, Kuthara. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The thing that frustrates me sometimes is that everyone knows who the really bad apples are, yet they are not removed from the game... Its not like a leopard ever changes its stripes. Cut out the cancer before it spreads. Just my $.02, but since this is my first MMO, maybe i"m too quick with the banhammer. I have ZERO problem losing a fight and saying GG, GF, nice maneuver there, etc.. What I have major problems with is trying to remain polite while the constant shit-talking rages. Its amazing what a little anonymity will do for ones bravery, when in real life I would be knocking someone's teeth out... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I would go as far as to say - let's agree to close the national news forum and leave it only for updates on political situation. As it is now, it's just a brewing pit of everything toxic and it's only reinforcing the aggressiveness between nations. Some games went as far as to remove ability to chat with the enemy in-game. NA went the exact opposite way and allowed players to bring their toxic and borderline xenophobic behavior from game straight into the forums. I'm guilty of my very own piece of toxic, but even I was time and time again honestly straight up disgusted by things that happen in these forums. Xenophobia is a terrifying thing. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 When it comes to fighting someone, it should simply come down to, "If you can't be polite, be professional." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar987 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 People get hung up and frustrated on mechanics that aren't yet finalized (or really even initiated). If anyone is feeling worn, or always bored, take a break! The stuff you're playing with now will be wiped anyway . Don't burn yourself out. It'll take away from your enjoyment when it's a fully featured release. I did that with a another naval-based game in the past. Went hard in closed beta and then open beta, and by the time actual release came it seemed tedious. I'd played each part of the game piece by piece in testing, never getting to enjoy the full experience all at once. It was all due to my own fault! So for now don't get attached to your blueprints and gold, and don't worry that such and such clan when pirate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutai Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Well let me start then. I am Kuthara - Leader of one of the largest guilds in game (KOTO) and founder of the Pirate Coalition which is made up of all Major Pirate guilds. I will speak with my guild and bring this up in the next Coalition meeting. Should you have ANY issues with anyone from my Guild or the Coalition I ask that instead of biting, you screen shot it and bring it to myself or one of the other Coalition leaders and we shall deal with it. Its time WE made the community better. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Quertier Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Galileus I have to admit, I disagree with many of your comments and points of view, but that sir is a good idea in my opinion. After the latest bout of disagreements and arguing. I have to decided to follow my friend Grim DeGrim and keep out of the national news, which for me used to be a great source of roleplay and fun. As for the game itself, I have got any problems. I rarely take part in PBs and i haven't been on the receiving end of any nasty comments. Every one in my eyes seem to be as nice as pie in game. But the national news... Not so much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Someone should host a 3rd Party forum to replace National News. At least then we won't have to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migui Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You are right. We will quickly burn out ourselves fighting over fairness or unfairness regarding current game mechanics. We are still in alpha/early access and a lot of things might be buggy resulting in, lets say, a fair amount of shades of grey when it comes to "fair play". I think Galileus is right. We can argue forever in that section, that in the end, what matters is what happens in-game and we are the ones that build the community and that section will become a shitshow without anything good coming out of it, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I would go as far as to say - let's agree to close the national news forum and leave it only for updates on political situation. As it is now, it's just a brewing pit of everything toxic and it's only reinforcing the aggressiveness between nations. National news forum was originally suggested to serve as a ''containment'' board for all those who can't control themselves and have to bring their baggage to forums. If you close it then the toxicity will not magically disappear, it will spill over to game development discussions and start shitting up important topics... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 National news forum was originally suggested to serve as a ''containment'' board for all those who can't control themselves and have to bring their baggage to forums. If you close it then the toxicity will not magically disappear, it will spill over to game development discussions and start shitting up important topics... I never suggested it will fix everything. Still, NN forum is in many cases the very cause for this toxicity. People post topics to argue, to point out on others, insult each other and everything under watchful eyes of moderation - that knows perfectly these people only want to insult others, but are too smart to be stopped as long as they can work under "light forum pvp" rule. There are clans that exist solely for purpose of stirring people up on these forums. Think on it for a second. And honestly - if someone brings that xenophobic stuff to the important topics? Ban him. Ban him right away. We had friggin fascism and racism pop up in these forums. Think on that for a second and tell me it's a good idea. You contain people by banning them. By providing them with a forum, you don't contain them - you cultivate them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I never suggested it will fix everything. Still, NN forum is in many cases the very cause for this toxicity. People post topics to argue, to point out on others, insult each other and everything under watchful eyes of moderation - that knows perfectly these people only want to insult others, but are too smart to be stopped as long as they can work under "light forum pvp" rule. There are clans that exist solely for purpose of stirring people up on these forums. Think on it for a second. And honestly - if someone brings that xenophobic stuff to the important topics? Ban him. Ban him right away. We had friggin fascism and racism pop up in these forums. Think on that for a second and tell me it's a good idea. You contain people by banning them. By providing them with a forum, you don't contain them - you cultivate them. Try some self control and don't go to NN forum to read things that hurt you? Think about that for a second, noone forces you to go there. You can always report posts that you feel are out of line to mods as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 What finally made it click for me is when a conversation around Pirate mechanics got picked up by a Mod in Global chat who then proceded to insult all Pirates for playing the way we do and not the way he wants us to. Followed by abusive language. This of course was reported. However has our community fallen so much that even the mods are now feeling it? Perhaps you can shed some light on what happened in that conversation (especially the abusive language part). Because judging by your post you are misrepresenting the facts You claim that the mod insulted the pirates and followed by abusive language What exactly was insulting to pirates and what was that abusive language part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) What I have major problems with is trying to remain polite while the constant shit-talking rages. Its amazing what a little anonymity will do for ones bravery, when in real life I would be knocking someone's teeth out... Yeah, that´s the so called Internet phenomena. Experienced it early on, I was desperately looking for the "mute battle chat" button. I just always have to look at it and cannot ignore it. It went so far that I stopped PvP on my own, therby avoiding "battle chat" (f*** u, I kill you rat...and so on). And yes, Kuthara. I chose also to be a pirate as I wanted to have a Pirate vs. Pirate PvP by now and then. Quickly being "blacklisted" and insulted many times I stopped doing it. It took a lot of fun from the game for me, as I do not attack other pirates anymore. I was only looking for "fair fighting", but the harsh treatment in chat and ingame really put me off. Finally, it is a game (moreover in Alpha), we play for nothing here... Edited March 31, 2016 by Wilson09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Try some self control and don't go to NN forum to read things that hurt you? Think about that for a second, noone forces you to go there. You can always report posts that you feel are out of line to mods as well. The forums are brim with aggression and nation-to-nation tensions because we get public topics like "you jerks, how dare you to roll pirates now!?" or "this and this clan is crap!". Me closing my eyes solves NOTHING. Problems don't disappear because you close your eyes. Edited March 31, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby Removed disrespectful responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutai Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Perhaps you can shed some light on what happened in that conversation (especially the abusive language part). Because judging by your post you are misrepresenting the facts You claim that the mod insulted the pirates and followed by abusive language What exactly was insulting to pirates and what was that abusive language part? I think that is best kept to PMs. I will be in touch with you once I get home if that is suitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutai Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Perhaps what we require is a Community Manager. Someone whos whole responsability is around fostering a healthy community and tackling subjects such as this. However in the mean time I think it is down to us players to actually take a step and make a difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 A community manager might be a good idea. There are rules infractions, and there are infractions of polite society. The moderators handle rules infractions, but as things stand... the infractions of polite society are largely passed over. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migui Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 This is beyond shit talking within a battle instance. The thing is, words here are not gone with the wind. They are kept and will be used as gas upon a fire. If I say something bad of a rival nation, and my post goes around as an example, it takes too little until "a player said" becomes "that nation said" and we have a hate campaign on going. I'm pretty sure this is exactly going on right now in many wars and the way to stop it is well, stop participating in these engagements but also try to prevent them. If someone is speaking ill of a friend, it is normal and understandable that people will pile up to defend his friend. But then, the ball of toxicity only grows. Everyone will be biased towards their team because they only live one side of the story. If people wants to make a 3rd party forum to stir shit, okay. But in the official forums, it should remain out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I think that is best kept to PMs. I will be in touch with you once I get home if that is suitable? we don't believe that abusive moderator messages is a private matter perhaps you overreacted? Perhaps you were right. We want the community to know 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precious Roy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Try some self control and don't go to NN forum to read things that hurt you? Think about that for a second, noone forces you to go there. You can always report posts that you feel are out of line to mods as well. "Try some self control". Good example of what kind of thing derails a discussion. It's better to exchange perspectives than insults. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo van Grojt Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I never suggested it will fix everything. Still, NN forum is in many cases the very cause for this toxicity. People post topics to argue, to point out on others, insult each other and everything under watchful eyes of moderation - that knows perfectly these people only want to insult others, but are too smart to be stopped as long as they can work under "light forum pvp" rule. There are clans that exist solely for purpose of stirring people up on these forums. Think on it for a second. And honestly - if someone brings that xenophobic stuff to the important topics? Ban him. Ban him right away. We had friggin fascism and racism pop up in these forums. Think on that for a second and tell me it's a good idea. You contain people by banning them. By providing them with a forum, you don't contain them - you cultivate them. I second everything you say. Illogic trolling is going rampant on the forum these days and it is always the same people over and over spewing their garbage on us. And since the Naval Action community is fairly small in comparison to other game forums, they receive an unnecessary amount of attention while doing so. Since 80% of the posters on NN seem not to be able to act civil anymore, either remove the "light forum pvp" rule and start moderating properly - or at least give us the option to downvote posts or straight up ignore posts from certain attention-seeking individuals like we can ingame. My short but finely selected ignore list ingame has made Dutch nation chat a much more enjoyable experience - please help us grown-up people maintain our sanity while on this forum. Sincerely, Hugo van Grojt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Quertier Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) As for a 'community manager' or whatever you want to call it. It's a good idea. But wouldn't it take a team. Very similar to the mods. Would you mind elaborating on your ideas please sir. Edited March 31, 2016 by SteelSandwich Removed statement about removed comment 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 As for a 'community manager' or whatever you want to call it. It's a good idea. But wouldn't it take a team. Very similar to the mods. Would you mind elaborating on your ideas please sir. Its a good idea that will change nothing because people proposing a community manager think he will have the magical ability to reform people on the internet. Its all simple - only this can help if community does not self police For the forum: harsh moderation - allowing only dry news reports from nations + clearing ANYTHING not having good ideas provided in a structured way. For the game: wow (or early potbs) style chat - "your enemy says something in patois" or switching symbols of text from lol to kek 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 What we need is simple. A pre-moderated national news forum. Allow only topics that are straight up informative and describe the current happenings of what and why, and cut out everything else. People will get bored really fast if their posts don't even show up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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