Sella Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1741 Establishment 20-Gunner http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66422.html Class info:http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_class&id=222 Ships of the same class: Phoenix 1743 20-24 guns Specifications: Length of Gundeck: 112' 6 ¾" Imperial Feet or 34.3091 meters Length of Keel: 93' 0 ¾" Imperial Feet or 28.3655 meters Breadth: 32' 3" Imperial Feet or 9.8298 meters Depth in Hold: 11' 0" Imperial Feet Burthen: 514 17⁄94 Tons BM(British Measurment) Guns(1743): Upper Deck: 20 x British 9pdr (1745): Lower Gun Deck:2 x British 9-Pounder Upper Gun Deck:20 x British 9-Pounder Quarterdeck:2 x British 3-Pounder http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=5794 Proposed armament: 22 x 9 prd= 99bw or 20 x 9 prd and 2 x 6 prd = 96 bw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) Temporary rankings for the 6th-Rate plan Challenge (for fun) : @Sella22 : 2 plans (Oliver Cromwell, Phoenix) @SteelSandwich @pietjenoob : 1 plan (Havik) and @Malachi : 1 (Tranqvebar) Temporary... No ? @Surcouf dans la course ? Edited October 15, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 La Volage French corvette 22 guns 1795 @Wagram Lyon, The Sailing Navy List, p.248 : 'Lines and profiles as taken' National Navy, then a privateer, then captured by the British (HMS Volage). Historical armament : French service : 22 x 9-pdr or carronades (?) British service : 22 x 32-pdr (carronades) Suggestion for in-game armament : 22 x 9-pdr (99 pdr) gap 3 22 x 32-pdr (carronades) Sources : https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=19397 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) La Confiance French Privateer Corvette 1796 22 guns @wagram : Lyon, The Sailing Navy List, p.275: "Lines and profiles 'as fitted' in 1806 Built in Bordeaux. Historical armament : as a French privateer : 22 x (?) as HMS Confiance (1805, 24 guns) : 22 x 18-pdr (carronades) + 2 x 6-pdr Suggestion for in-game armament : 22 x 9-pdr (99 pdr) (gap 3) Dimensions (imperial feet) : length of gundeck = 117'0" ; breadth = 31'2 7/8" ; depth in hold = 14' 0" Notice the V-shaped hull. Sources : https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22705 Edited October 16, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) Le duc de Chartres French privateer Corvette 1779 24 guns Historical armament : as a privateer : 24 x 6-pdr (?) as HMS Duc de Chartres : 18 x 6-pdr + 4 x 12-pdr (78 pdr) Suggestion for in-game armament : 24 x 6-pdr (72 pdr) (gap 1) Dimensions (imperial feet) : 109'2" x 86'5 1/2" x 30'5 1/4" http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=20418http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83703.html Edited October 15, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) La Fidéle, built for the french EIC at Nantes in 1757. I initially thought she was armed with 20 * 6-pounders, but given her size (113' 6'' pied de roi) and that the size and distance between gunports are the same as for frégates de 8, an armament of 20 8-pounders might also be possible. Project for an 8-pounder frigate 'to be built at Archangelsk' (?), early 1790s. Length 125 danish feet, breadth 33', 24 8-pounders. Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Malachi said: La Fidéle, built for the french EIC at Nantes in 1757. I initially thought she was armed with 20 * 6-pounders, but given her size (113' 6'' pied de roi) and that the size and distance between gunports are the same as for frégates de 8, an armament of 20 8-pounders might also be possible. Nice post ! About La Fidèle : unfortunately 20 x 6-pdr and 20 x 9-pdr are outside of our 3 gaps. 20 x 9 gives the same broadside weight as USS Niagara (90 pdr). So two options for La Fidèle : 1) Option 1 (armed QD/fc) : Could we add 6-pdr (that is irl 4-pdr) on the QD/fc ? 20 x 6-pdr + 4 x 6-pdr ? broadside weight = 72 pdr 2) Option 2 (unarmed QD/fc) : Did Captains sometimes mix 9-pdr and 6-pdr on their Gun deck ? I guess at least some privateers did, didn't they ? Or was it discouraged for a technical reason ? What about (18 x 9-pdr + 2 x 6-pdr) on the GD ? broadside weight = 87 pdr Edited October 16, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) Raae Danish 9-pdr frigate 30 guns 1709 Dimensions : 110 fod, 29 fod, Crew : 140 Historical armament : 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr (96 pdr) Suggestion for in-game armament (with 6-pdr replacing 4-pdr and 9-pdr replacing 8-pdr) (gap 3) : 18 x 9-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (99 pdr) 18 x 9-pdr + 4 x 6-pdr (93 pdr) Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 @admin Could ships with 4-pdr on their quarterdeck/fc be implemented in game with 4-pdr ? I assumed that 4-pdr on QD/fc were always replaced with 6-pdr but is it really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 can't check right now, but I think the armament as indicated on the plans for Raae and her sistership Höhenhald is 18 8-pounders and 12 (or 16?) 4-pounders. The threedecks entry is wrong, 30 8-pounders would make her the Heavy Rattlesnake of light frigates 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Malachi said: can't check right now, but I think the armament as indicated on the plans for Raae and her sistership Höhenhald is 18 8-pounders and 12 (or 16?) 4-pounders. The threedecks entry is wrong, 30 8-pounders would make her the Heavy Rattlesnake of light frigates 😛 Thx for the tip. Waiting for your confirmation. I've noticed portholes on the QH/fc were smaller than those of the QD... 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr = 96 pdr 18 x 8-pdr + 16 x 4-pdr = 104 pdr That'd place the Raae between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr = 90 pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr = 117 pdr) Danish knew how to draw wonderful plans (and keep them). Edited October 16, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Summing up of the proposals so far Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora Suggestions for in-game armament made on the supposition that irl 4-pdr on the QD/fc are to be replaced with 6-pdr in game. Any correction (mistakes, oversight...) are welcome. Some really nice ships (not added to these tables) have been presented : La Créole, 1827 La Fidèle, French, 1757 (113' 6'' pied de roi) : 20 x 6-pounders (same as Mercury) or 20 x 8-pounders (same as Niagara) Project for an 8-pounder frigate, early 1790s. Length 125 danish feet, breadth 33' : 24 x 8-pounders (same as Le Requin). Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, LeBoiteux said: Thx for the tip. Waiting for your confirmation. I've noticed portholes on the QH/fc were smaller than those of the QD... 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr = 96 pdr 18 x 8-pdr + 16 x 4-pdr = 104 pdr That'd place the Raae between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr = 90 pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr = 117 pdr) Danish knew how to draw wonderful plans (and keep them). That´s for sure. But then they didn´t have to deal with a revolution when most of the french plans prior to the 1790s went 'missing'. Or two devastating dockyard fires in their main naval base And I just checked the plans for Raae, it´s indeed 18 8-pounders and 12 4-pounders. Dimensions: 110 fod, 29 fod, crew 140 Now on the really interesting plan challenge, ships with 12 4-pounders to 20 6-pounders Edited October 17, 2017 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) I will correct the data of the Raae. Thx. She'll be back in this thread filling gap 3. So you think as I do that this current challenge is over . Yet we haven't got many plans for gaps 1 and 2... Already a next challenge ? Some have become addicted and need their plan fix edit : Raae data corrected. Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 "new" challenge? Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France. And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships Something different. Maybe have a focus at corvets. single decked vessels with three masts. Another gap to fill would be around the 12 pounder frigate. cant dig numbers but IIRC there is no real reason to sail those 12 pounder armed vessels (correct me if im wrong). Reasons other than aestetics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, BungeeLemming said: "new" challenge? Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France. And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships The only intent here is to fill in the gaps of NA line-up (number of guns), whatever the nationality of the ships. The only reason why there are a lot of plans from USA, GB and France on NA forum is that these ones are available. I've spent a lot of time on internet looking for plans from Spain, Portugal, Venice, etc. and posted what I've found. That is not a lot... The only way to get more plans from underrepresented nations in game would be to have players digging in national museums. As far as I am concerned, I'm far from being interested in that debate on nations. I am more interested in filling in the gaps and aesthetics. And you are right : we need more 3-masted ships ('corvettes') among small ships. Oh ? btw the French ones are beautiful... As you can see from the tables above, you ask for too much when you ask for specific nations to fill in specific gaps ! Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Malachi said: Now on the really interesting plan challenge, ships with 12 4-pounders to 20 6-pounders My favorite 'gap to fill' in terms of gameplay would be between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr). But I see what you mean by "20 x 6-pdr'... Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, BungeeLemming said: "new" challenge? Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France. And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships Waiting for your help. That was the 'current' challenge. No need to call it 'new' : find me 'more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc..' plans to fill in the gaps and I will include them in the tables. Till then, those tables above represent what the community has found to fill in the gaps. And I for one thank the contributors. Looking forward to your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I only wrote this since to me it sounded as if you were completely satisfied with the given suggestions the reason I didnt contribute a bit for weeks now is cause I moved and didnt have stationary internet until now.. No offence intended in the first place and I apologize if it sounded like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, BungeeLemming said: No offence intended in the first place and I apologize if it sounded like one. My fault : I might have been quick off the mark. Besides, the current debate about in-game nations quite annoys me. And I've always tried to post as many nations as possible... I've posted, in this thread : British, Spanish, French and Danish plans. No offense taken. 32 minutes ago, BungeeLemming said: it sounded as if you were completely satisfied with the given suggestions Satisfied ? Nope, as I wrote : 5 hours ago, LeBoiteux said: Yet we haven't got many plans for gaps 1 and 2... But I felt that contributions for those current gaps struggle. There are not lots of contributors in the shipyard. When they have (more or less) all posted once or twice with those very specific specs as in those Challenge threads, I thought the thread was about to die. But it seems that I was wrong as you'll soon contribute. That's great. Edited October 17, 2017 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Scipio 1780/1781 build in France, sold in England in 1785, completely rebuild by P. Galvimans in 1789. French/Dutch Corvet/Sloop Historical armament : 10 x 8-pdr = 80 12 x 6-pdr = 72 Total: 152 | 76 BW Suggestion for in-game armament : 10 x 9-pdr = 90 12 x 6-pdr = 72 Total: 162 | 81 BW Gap 2 Dimensions : 122' x 30' x 17' ¼'' Crew : 140 EDIT: It's quite amazing how much conflicting information is out there concerning this little one. Conflicting whether build in France or England. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said: Scipio 1780/1781 build in France, sold in England in 1785, completely rebuild by P. Galvimans in 1789. French/Dutch Corvet/Sloop Historical armament : 10 x 8-pdr = 80 12 x 6-pdr = 72 Total: 152 | 76 BW Suggestion for in-game armament : 10 x 9-pdr = 90 12 x 6-pdr = 72 Total: 162 | 81 BW Gap 2 First time I see/notice more guns on the QD/fc than on the GD ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Just now, LeBoiteux said: First time I see/notice more guns on the QD/fc than on the GD ! Mixed GD of 5 x 8-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (11 guns, for a total of 22) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said: Mixed GD of 5 x 8-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (11 guns, for a total of 22) Oh I got it !! I've confused the total number of guns with that of one broadside. Too many bw calculations in a row these days !!! btw we have our mixed armament... Edited October 18, 2017 by LeBoiteux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 Summing up of the proposals Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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