Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Sign in to follow this  
LeBoiteux

6th-Rate plan challenge

Recommended Posts

 

 

1741 Establishment 20-Gunner

large.jpg

 

 

large.jpg

large.jpglarge.jpglarge.jpg

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66422.html

 

Class info:http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_class&id=222

 

 

Ships of the same class:

 

Phoenix

1743

20-24 guns 

 

large.jpglarge.jpg

 

Specifications:

 

Length of Gundeck:  112' 6 ¾"    Imperial Feet or 34.3091 meters
Length of Keel: 93' 0 ¾"   Imperial Feet  or 28.3655 meters
Breadth: 32' 3"  Imperial Feet or 9.8298 meters
Depth in Hold: 11' 0"   Imperial Feet 
Burthen: 514 17⁄94  Tons BM(British Measurment) 
 
Guns(1743):
 
Upper Deck: 20 x British 9pdr
 
(1745):
 
Lower Gun Deck:2 x British 9-Pounder
Upper Gun Deck:20 x British 9-Pounder
Quarterdeck:2 x British 3-Pounder
 
 
 
Proposed armament:
 
22 x 9 prd= 99bw
or
20 x 9 prd and 2 x 6 prd = 96 bw
 
 
 
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

La Volage

French corvette

22 guns

1795

post-14746-0-32979400-1444988996.jpg

@Wagram Lyon, The Sailing Navy List, p.248 : 'Lines and profiles as taken'

 

National Navy, then a privateer, then captured by the British (HMS Volage).

Historical armament :

  • French service : 22 x 9-pdr or carronades (?) 
  • British service : 22 x 32-pdr (carronades) 

Suggestion for in-game armament :  

  • 22 x 9-pdr (99 pdr)  gap 3
  • 22 x 32-pdr (carronades)

Sources : 

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=19397

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

La Confiance

French Privateer Corvette

 1796

22 guns

post-14746-0-72338000-1444913736.jpeg

@wagram : Lyon, The Sailing Navy List, p.275: "Lines and profiles 'as fitted' in 1806

Built in Bordeaux.

Historical armament : 

  • as a French privateer : 22 x (?)
  • as HMS Confiance (1805, 24 guns) : 22 x 18-pdr (carronades) + 2 x 6-pdr

Suggestion for in-game armament :   22 x 9-pdr (99 pdr) (gap 3)

Dimensions (imperial feet) : length of gundeck  = 117'0" ; breadth =  31'2 7/8" ; depth in hold = 14' 0" 

Notice the V-shaped hull.

Sources : https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22705

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Le duc de Chartres

French privateer Corvette

1779

24 guns

large.jpg

Historical armament :

  • as a privateer : 24 x 6-pdr (?)
  • as HMS Duc de Chartres : 18 x 6-pdr + 4 x 12-pdr (78 pdr)

Suggestion for in-game armament :  24 x 6-pdr (72 pdr) (gap 1)

Dimensions (imperial feet) : 109'2" x 86'5 1/2" x 30'5 1/4"

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=20418
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83703.html

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

La Fidéle, built for the french EIC at Nantes in 1757. I initially thought she was armed with 20 * 6-pounders, but given her size (113' 6'' pied de roi) and that the size and distance between gunports are the same as for frégates de 8, an armament of 20 8-pounders might also be possible.

 

Project for an 8-pounder frigate 'to be built at Archangelsk' (?), early 1790s. Length 125 danish feet, breadth 33', 24 8-pounders.

 

 

Edited by Malachi
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Malachi said:

59e474811e7d8_LaFideleNantes1757.thumb.jpg.3d283ea55f8d42d7e35e2311c243ea5f.jpg

 

La Fidéle, built for the french EIC at Nantes in 1757. I initially thought she was armed with 20 * 6-pounders, but given her size (113' 6'' pied de roi) and that the size and distance between gunports are the same as for frégates de 8, an armament of 20 8-pounders might also be possible.

Nice post ! :)

About La Fidèle : unfortunately 20 x 6-pdr and 20 x 9-pdr are outside of our 3 gaps. 20 x 9 gives the same broadside weight as USS Niagara (90 pdr).

So two options for La Fidèle :

1) Option 1 (armed QD/fc) : Could we add 6-pdr (that is irl 4-pdr) on the QD/fc ? 20 x 6-pdr + 4 x 6-pdr ? broadside weight = 72 pdr

2) Option 2 (unarmed QD/fc) : Did Captains sometimes mix 9-pdr and 6-pdr on their Gun deck ? I guess at least some privateers did, didn't they ? Or was it discouraged for a technical reason  ? What about (18 x 9-pdr + 2 x 6-pdr) on the GD ? broadside weight = 87 pdr 

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raae

Danish 9-pdr frigate

30 guns

1709

A736.jpg

A738.jpg

A910.jpg

A936.jpg

Dimensions : 110 fod, 29 fod,

Crew :  140

Historical armament : 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr (96 pdr)

Suggestion for in-game armament (with 6-pdr replacing 4-pdr and 9-pdr replacing 8-pdr) (gap 3) :

  • 18 x 9-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (99 pdr)
  • 18 x 9-pdr + 4 x 6-pdr (93 pdr
Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@admin Could ships with 4-pdr on their quarterdeck/fc be implemented in game with 4-pdr ? I assumed that 4-pdr on QD/fc were always replaced with 6-pdr but is it really ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can't check right now, but I think the armament as indicated on the plans for Raae and her sistership Höhenhald is 18 8-pounders and 12 (or 16?) 4-pounders. The threedecks entry is wrong, 30 8-pounders would make her the Heavy Rattlesnake of light frigates 😛

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Malachi said:

can't check right now, but I think the armament as indicated on the plans for Raae and her sistership Höhenhald is 18 8-pounders and 12 (or 16?) 4-pounders. The threedecks entry is wrong, 30 8-pounders would make her the Heavy Rattlesnake of light frigates 😛

 

Thx for the tip. Waiting for your confirmation. :)

I've noticed portholes on the QH/fc were smaller than those of the QD...

  • 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr = 96 pdr
  • 18 x 8-pdr + 16 x 4-pdr = 104 pdr

That'd place the Raae between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr = 90 pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr = 117 pdr)

Danish knew how to draw wonderful plans (and keep them).

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summing up of the proposals so far

Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy

px8U8kB.png

Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara

HYhSlHd.png

Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora

q4tlU7e.png

Suggestions for in-game armament made on the supposition that irl 4-pdr on the QD/fc are to be replaced with 6-pdr in game.

Any correction (mistakes, oversight...) are welcome. :)

Some really nice ships (not added to these tables) have been presented :

  • La Créole, 1827
  • La Fidèle, French, 1757 (113' 6'' pied de roi) : 
    • 20 x 6-pounders (same as Mercury)
    • or 20 x 8-pounders (same as Niagara)
  • Project for an 8-pounder frigate, early 1790s. Length 125 danish feet, breadth 33' :  24 x 8-pounders (same as Le Requin).
Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

15 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Thx for the tip. Waiting for your confirmation. :)

I've noticed portholes on the QH/fc were smaller than those of the QD...

  • 18 x 8-pdr + 12 x 4-pdr = 96 pdr
  • 18 x 8-pdr + 16 x 4-pdr = 104 pdr

That'd place the Raae between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr = 90 pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr = 117 pdr)

Danish knew how to draw wonderful plans (and keep them).

That´s for sure. But then they didn´t have to deal with a revolution when most of the french plans prior to the 1790s went 'missing'.

Or two devastating dockyard fires in their main naval base :P

 

And I just checked the plans for Raae, it´s indeed 18 8-pounders and 12 4-pounders.

Dimensions: 110 fod, 29 fod,

crew 140

 

Now on the really interesting plan challenge, ships with 12 4-pounders to 20 6-pounders :wub:

Edited by Malachi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will correct the data of the Raae. Thx. She'll be back in this thread filling gap 3. 

So you think as I do that this current challenge is over :). Yet we haven't got many plans for gaps 1 and 2...

Already a next challenge ? Some have become addicted and need their plan fix :P

edit :

Raae data corrected.

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"new" challenge?

Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France.

And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships ;)

Something different. Maybe have a focus at corvets. single decked vessels with three masts.

Another gap to fill would be around the 12 pounder frigate. cant dig numbers but IIRC there is no real reason to sail those 12 pounder armed vessels (correct me if im wrong). Reasons other than aestetics!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BungeeLemming said:

"new" challenge?

Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France.

And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships ;)

The only intent here is to fill in the gaps of NA line-up (number of guns), whatever the nationality of the ships. The only reason why there are a lot of plans from USA, GB and France on NA forum is that these ones are available.

I've spent a lot of time on internet looking for plans from Spain, Portugal, Venice, etc. and posted what I've found. That is not a lot...

The only way to get more plans from underrepresented nations in game would be to have players digging in national museums.

As far as I am concerned, I'm far from being interested in that debate on nations. I am more interested in filling in the gaps and aesthetics.

And you are right : we need more 3-masted ships ('corvettes') among small ships. Oh ? btw the French ones are beautiful...:P 

As you can see from the tables above, you ask for too much when you ask for specific nations to fill in specific gaps !

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Malachi said:

Now on the really interesting plan challenge, ships with 12 4-pounders to 20 6-pounders :wub:

My favorite 'gap to fill' in terms of gameplay would be between USS Niagara (20 x 9-pdr) and HMS Cerberus (26 x 9-pdr). But I see what you mean by "20 x 6-pdr'... :)

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BungeeLemming said:

"new" challenge?

Get rid of the common nations. USA, Britain, France.

And start this thread "anew" with the intention to maybe get more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc.. ships ;)

Waiting for your help. That was the 'current' challenge. No need to call it 'new' : find me 'more danish, spanish, portuguese, venetian, etc..' plans to fill in the gaps and I will include them in the tables. Till then, those tables above represent what the community has found to fill in the gaps. And I for one thank the contributors. Looking forward to your contribution. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only wrote this since to me it sounded as if you were completely satisfied with the given suggestions ;)

the reason I didnt contribute a bit for weeks now is cause I moved and didnt have stationary internet until now..

No offence intended in the first place and I apologize if it sounded like one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, BungeeLemming said:

No offence intended in the first place and I apologize if it sounded like one.

My fault : I might have been quick off the mark. Besides, the current debate about in-game nations quite annoys me. And I've always tried to post as many nations as possible...

I've posted, in this thread : British, Spanish, French and Danish plans.

No offense taken.

32 minutes ago, BungeeLemming said:

it sounded as if you were completely satisfied with the given suggestions ;)

Satisfied ? Nope, as I wrote :

5 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

 Yet we haven't got many plans for gaps 1 and 2...

But I felt  that contributions for those current gaps struggle. There are not lots of contributors in the shipyard. When they have (more or less) all posted once or twice with those very specific specs as in those Challenge threads, I thought the thread was about to die.

But it seems that I was wrong as you'll soon contribute. That's great. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scipio

1780/1781 build in France, sold in England in 1785, completely rebuild by P. Galvimans in 1789.

French/Dutch Corvet/Sloop

 

Historical armament :

10 x 8-pdr = 80   12 x 6-pdr = 72     Total: 152 | 76 BW

Suggestion for in-game armament :

10 x 9-pdr = 90   12 x 6-pdr = 72    Total: 162 | 81 BW Gap 2

59e7c79ece686_WoodenModel.thumb.jpg.67208fe02858e1d7b93776be806d59d6.jpg59e7c7a77ca6e_Shipplan.thumb.jpg.156b80f21c7fb86febafbc7b2d30cec5.jpgExternal.thumb.jpg.9713f40c9c604f51409477f442239137.jpg59e7c7a198a86_External(2).thumb.jpg.d2f66dd5cf7919af0d98937197ac0897.jpg

Dimensions : 

122' x 30' x 17' ¼''

Crew : 140

 

EDIT: It's quite amazing how much conflicting information is out there concerning this little one. Conflicting whether build in France or England.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said:

Scipio

1780/1781 build in France, sold in England in 1785, completely rebuild by P. Galvimans in 1789.

French/Dutch Corvet/Sloop

Historical armament :

10 x 8-pdr = 80   12 x 6-pdr = 72     Total: 152 | 76 BW

Suggestion for in-game armament :

10 x 9-pdr = 90   12 x 6-pdr = 72    Total: 162 | 81 BW Gap 2

First time I see/notice more guns on the QD/fc than on the GD !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LeBoiteux said:

First time I see/notice more guns on the QD/fc than on the GD !

Mixed GD of 5 x 8-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (11 guns, for a total of 22) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said:

Mixed GD of 5 x 8-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (11 guns, for a total of 22) :)

Oh I got it !! I've confused the total number of guns with that of one broadside. Too many bw calculations in a row these days !!! :D

btw we have our mixed armament...

Edited by LeBoiteux
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summing up of the proposals

Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy

px8U8kB.png

Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara

9QowVHX.png?1

Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora

q4tlU7e.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...