Patch 9.63 - Iron crisis

[Kilo]

I can agree that the economy is not the selling point of the game... but having an open world is... and an open world where there`s nothing to fight for is pointless.. I`ve been here so long that I know all about it. We had arena fight for quite a while, sure it was fun, but most people lost interest once they levelled up.. Then we had an empty open world... It was great, but again after a while people lost interest because they`re was nothing to fight for... Now they added ressources and crafting and this is when thing really gelled together... When you realise that you need to have teamate or at least "friends" to work with because you`re are not gonna be able to do it all alone. And now each fight has values and a lost port mean something... But we need economy to work, Does the economy work right now, in a sense yes, it`s offer and demand... Does it have issues yes, just like real life. First time the ressources appear the main problem was scarcity, then it was cargo space and the actual transport of them (it use to be a lot less) then people got sick of carrying the stuff around, they added deliveries, then people complained that trading was too easy... This is just an example of how this is ever changing...

 

The situation we have now is the result of everyone power levelling the crafters to go along with the power levelling... Eventually things will settle down a bit..

 

-Eventually i believe some of the production will be player controlled

-Limits on contract would probably help control some of the hoarding

-Reduce ship hold capacity back a bit... Especially if bigger trader are coming in.

-I also wish there was away to see nearby contract. I`ve posted several contract to buy in a port for ressources not produce there, they are almost never filled, even at higher price, Currently i suspect most of the people doing the trading are aslo the crafter, very few actual trader....

 

I too was in the early alpha testing and fleeting before OW was released. I agree with you, as an old former potbs player the economy combined with nations and fleets is the gist of it of course. And yes that makes it fun. My point wasn't whether or not it's just crafters or even hoarding monopolizers, it's to as you said, continue to tweak the system and make it enjoyable for all who want to put in the effort in a fair and open manner. Simply hoarding wealth and blocking everyone else needs tweaking. Limiting contracts per day and the amount banked would help - agreed.

[DoctorRockzo]

First of all, I do know how market economics work. That is the whole point. I do not want the game to work like the real world does. Your reasoning is flawed, and I will try to explain why.

 

Imagine, if you will, that all the poor in the world had the choice to just leave and switch to a different dimension where their lives would be better. Businesses would lose their customers and go bust. The reason it works, is that people do not have that choice. They have to, in the vast majority of cases, accept their fate. In our dimension, which we call Naval Action, however, we do have that option. If people don't like it here, they will move to a different game, and your business, your resources and your gold will quickly become worthless. I'm sure you can see the difference, and if you can, you must realize that it is in your own interest that others feel content with how the game works.

 

Your example with XP is also flawed, because there is an unlimited amount of potential XP in the game. Me being higher level than you in no way prevents you from catching up. That is not how the economy works, though. Your lead is just going to get bigger and bigger because you have the buying power to keep me out of business.

 

This post exemplifies the argument I joined this forum to combat; a few unskilled players come here to make vague and bogus threats of a mass exodus if their own bad ideas are not implemented. If you are the fun expert and respected economist that you think you are, you should make your own video game where no one competes with each other for resources - you could also incorporate some kind of "auto-win" button so no one gets their feelers hurt. I am sure you will sell millions.

Edited February 4, 2016 by DoctorRockzo

[TrollCraft]

This game was never marketed as Virtual marketplace Economy 101. it was designed and marketed as Naval Combat Game. ...  the way it's setup now creates a monopoly where (especially newish) or even established players will simply not be able to bid for any goods via the contract system when enough fortune is built up. Something needs to change as far as amount limitations or number of contracts per day.

 

For those players that only want a naval action game, there isn't really a need to bid for good.  Naval combat is free of charge and pays quite well.  Kill some stuff, buy a new ship, and repeat.  Now if you want to get into crafting, that is a completely different game and is all about economics.  I mean, the point of crafting is to sell your stuff, right?

 

As for a limit on contracts, there already is.  You can only have 5 active contracts at any given time, including both buy and sell orders.  That really isn't very many given the number of ports.

 

Overall I haven't had much of a problem getting goods for crafting.  I was able to purchase at least 500 iron per day during the "shortage", and the average I range I paid was 75-120 gold each.

 

If addition the "iron patch" has increased the cost of iron for a lot of players.  Because the port where I buy iron isn't usually sold out the store keep increasing the price every time someone buys it.  So where before the store would sell it for 75 each as it became available, it now has a continuous supply and continually increases the price as players purchase some (not all) of the available stock.  The last time I checked my favorite iron port, which happens to be a free port, the store price (not a sell contract) was up to 170.  This is the most I have had to pay for iron since the game went on sale on Steam.

[TrollCraft]

 +1

I'm a new player spending an hour or two when I can.

I've just spent half hour sailing around with no targets in sight, but lots of crossed swords everywhere I can't join.

While it may not be important to the experienced players here, who are deep into trading and the economy, this is going to kill newbies dead.

Without them coming in, there will be no game in the long run.

 

Overall I completely understand that this game is hard to get into without some instruction.  Right now there isn't anything in-game to help you, but there are plenty of resources on YouTube and you can watch people playing on Twitch and ask them any questions you might have.

 

But that being said, I don't feel like your issues have anything to do with the current state of the economy.

 

To help you out, if you can't get into an existing battle, then go do missions.  Then when you are tired of missions, go find some hunting grounds and attack other ships (you don't need others to start the battle for you).  And if you go after trader fleets the current shortages of goods and the escalated prices makes this a good way for you to make money.

[Jimi Madrid]

@Tollcraft you do not understand that some people like to da a mission and enjoy seeing strangers helping you without group invitations. This helps to find new friends and give you the immersion of not beeing alone.

What we need is a button to select if your mission should be closed for strangers or not.

[Fletch]

I not sure what I am reading here, but it looks like enemy players can attack people in their missions and no other friendly players will be able to get in and help the poor guy? Also when I first started missions I was glad of anyone who showed up to help. By the time your old enough to want private missions you should be old enough to sail some where quite on the map away from the noobie towns and mission in peace under the old mechanics

[Dalriaden]

I wonder how much of the economic argument comes because half or more of the damn population sits clustered around their main port and is afraid to sail out of sight of land?

[gozer]

This post exemplifies the argument I joined this forum to combat; a few unskilled players come here to make vague and bogus threats of a mass exodus if their own bad ideas are not implemented. 

 

nice spindoctoring, but this isn't about skill or lack of it because there is no skill involved whatsoever. Contract screen gives you yourly updates so you know if the contract is working or not and all you need is sail to the port, cancel your contract and post new one with higher price. Where exactly is there any skill needed? All you need is a bit of time. And some patience if you find yourself in bidding war with someone else who is doing the same thing in the same port.

 

With the current way contracts work the entire production of certain resources is forever tied in contracts. You can sail through entire area and find all harbors producing that resource empty (right now it is mostly oak and fir. There is no way around it, the only way it to play contracts war. The whole economy revolves around the fact who has more patience (or time) to update their contract prices more often. Sure, you can learn to exploit the game mechanic and if you do it better than others in your area you'll get to the resources. But it turns entire game economy into contract wars, where you only need to update the contract from time to time and then the automatic buy/sell script does all the work for you even when you are offline. If this is what the game economy was planned to look like then fine, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

now we get to the things that I think are really broken in the context of the rest of the game mechanics

 

1) no need for outposts/storage space with contracts

if you run missions or hunt traders from port where you don't have outpost, you can't store anything there. you either have to carry everything on your ship, or you have to sell the stuff, or it is simply destroyed if you leave the port. For contracts there is no storage needed. You can have items/resources 'stored' in unclaimed contract indeffinitely for no costs. Why? Either the game should require you to have outpost (that would provide storage space) in the harbor where you have contract placed, or there should be some sort of fee for providing temporary storage, with cost based on how many resources you have there and how long you leave them there. Looking at limited outpost slots and the rate with which cost of both permits and outposts increases whenyou get more of them, it is pretty clear that game developers have decided that players shouldn't have unlimited storage available to them everywhere. Contracts should work within the same limits.

 

2) you get hour by hour updates on the contract status (how many resources has the contract bought)

game is set in the age of sails era and all other game mechanics work within the limitations of that era. Game requires you to be in the same port if you want to get any information ... production, items/resources available in shop and their prices, you can't even list items you have stored in any of your outposts. So why exactly do contracts give you information regardless of distance? Place any contract you want, but if you want to find out if the contract is working or not then you should go to that port to check ... you shouldn't be able to get hour by hour updates from across the entire Carribbean area.

 

 

change these two things and the entire contract wars problem sorts itself out (but then certain players would lose their profitable lazymode ... how awfull)

[ulysse77]

I think change 1) is coming... Pretty sure eventually we are gonna get two different "outpost" option... One will be dockside where you will be able to "park" your ships... and "warehouse" where the supply will be stored

 

like i suggested somewhere else. I think we need to reduce hold capacity a bit, they use to be much lower. I suspect once we see bigger trader the one we have  will be reduced...

[Kilo]

I not sure what I am reading here, but it looks like enemy players can attack people in their missions and no other friendly players will be able to get in and help the poor guy? Also when I first started missions I was glad of anyone who showed up to help. By the time your old enough to want private missions you should be old enough to sail some where quite on the map away from the noobie towns and mission in peace under the old mechanics

 

Yes you're correct ,unless they (hopefully soon) change the mechanics to something more suitable for all sides. I think an idea would be :

 

- Create a toggle in options for players who wish to lock their missions. ( But doing so at the moment presently as of 05/02/16 means they have no help if enemy ships enter and they are ungrouped)

- That same toggle will allow players to keep missions open to all players so they can meet up and enjoy the game in the same nation and build relations amongst the playerbase.

- Then create a flare system where a "locked" player can request help from nearby friendlies if enemies enter their locked mission. ( Or maybe not, as that would be a risk they take for locking)

 

Either way a new Toggle would remedy things. ( Unless the Admin could chime in here.)

Edited February 5, 2016 by Kilo

[Grongash]

Increasing the production of Iron while reducing the amount needed isnt going to tackle the actual problem at all. There are still a lot of players buying all the resources with contracts, some of them with money they.. well lets say "got their hands on by (ab)using the game mechanics in a creative way. Good luck trying to compete against someone with a 5+ mio warchest.

 

Also the amount the port uses needs attention. Most harbors are filled with goods for the next months. Either increase those or reset them on a regular base. If you want the open world (and by that the game) to flourish you need a chance for an income other than the repeating boring missions. Crafters/Traders can add to the game, i get that they arent the focus (and im fine with that), but its a needed feature.

 

If the open world is only about finding your missions and attack an AI convoy here and there it is going to get boring very fast. And please dont say "PvP". That currently is a loop-sided gankfest where you either get zerged or zerg. Zero skill involved 90% of the time and mostly not worth the travel time of an afternoon.

[Xoosch]

Any new informations when the xp-bound to steam, will happen? Should be "this week" afterall.

[Fizzer]

Increasing the production of Iron while reducing the amount needed isnt going to tackle the actual problem at all. There are still a lot of players buying all the resources with contracts, some of them with money they.. well lets say "got their hands on by (ab)using the game mechanics in a creative way. Good luck trying to compete against someone with a 5+ mio warchest.

 

Also the amount the port uses needs attention. Most harbors are filled with goods for the next months. Either increase those or reset them on a regular base. If you want the open world (and by that the game) to flourish you need a chance for an income other than the repeating boring missions. Crafters/Traders can add to the game, i get that they arent the focus (and im fine with that), but its a needed feature.

 

If the open world is only about finding your missions and attack an AI convoy here and there it is going to get boring very fast. And please dont say "PvP". That currently is a loop-sided gankfest where you either get zerged or zerg. Zero skill involved 90% of the time and mostly not worth the travel time of an afternoon.

 

 

There are plenty of resources to go around, at least on the NA server.  From what I've seen, too many people are afraid to set up an outpost away from their capital a bit.  Demand is too centralized, traders are simply exploiting the laziness of the player base.  They do the sailing/teleporting (devs should figure out a way to make teleport with cargo unprofitable) so people can just sit in their capital and get resources.

 

Perhaps the resource "crunch" is somewhat on purpose to encourage population distribution and, I don't know, conflict?  If you can't find what you want/need easily, then put in a little effort to get it.  That's kind of the whole point of open world games.

[Grongash]

There are plenty of resources to go around, at least on the NA server.  From what I've seen, too many people are afraid to set up an outpost away from their capital a bit.  Demand is too centralized, traders are simply exploiting the laziness of the player base.  They do the sailing/teleporting (devs should figure out a way to make teleport with cargo unprofitable) so people can just sit in their capital and get resources.

 

Perhaps the resource "crunch" is somewhat on purpose to encourage population distribution and, I don't know, conflict?  If you can't find what you want/need easily, then put in a little effort to get it.  That's kind of the whole point of open world games.

 

I spent half a week to pretty much check all of the map, on PvP1 every single Harbor that produces Iron (neutral/Free Town or GB) has large buy orders, some of the already for horrendous prices. Same goes for gold, Lignum Vitae and a few others. There is no "conflict" possible, its not like i can do anything but outbid them (which i did), only to find it replaced again and again, some to a price of 90+ per unit of Iron ore. This needs a fix, it is driving players away. Of the friends i started playing with in the Alpha (before Steam) im pretty much the only one still playing, and im only checking in now and then, and honestly, more out of hope its going to get sorted by the Devs soon.

[Flag Captain Rendenbrandt]

Other fixes

Low and mid ranked bots have lost upgrades for speed and turning

Bots cannot disengage from boarding

[poison]

Bots cannot disengage from boarding

...why? It wasn't broken.

[Heelidar]

About economy.

 

Iron production increase was a very crude measure. It could not work well.

Now we just moved speculators to another resource.

The main problem here is economy system itself. The ever increasing demand with a very limited supply. Supply can not be influenced by players.

The situation has nothing to do with a free market.

If you are not interested in making an economy simulator, plz, rework the whole system. Some right measures may partly help, but in general, system as it is, will never be satisfactory.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Heelidar

[Quineloe]

...why? It wasn't broken.

 

It was broken as intended. It basically made it pointless to have boarding upgrades, because it is absolutely impossible to defeat a ship with high crew in those 4 rounds of boarding action.

The disengage button is also a no-brainer to press right now. If you're not going to defend against a boarding, press it on turn one. There's no penalty for pressing it, no cost and no reason not to.

 

The only way to board a ship properly with it in place was to grape the crew over and over until you could win in 4 rounds. Now I can actually outfit my trader raider with lots of boarding upgrades, board a ship and take it out in one go at a decent pace.

 

Is there a downside you didn't mention to this?

[Quarios]

This is just an invite to people to gank mission runners, since even infront of your capital your own nation can't help you anymore.

 

Can't stress this enough not a day passes by where I see people asking for help in nation while they being ganked in their homelands. This really is a bad design decision.

The worst part is, the enemy can join with 20 ships while you could maximum bring 5 friends in your group. Also we had atleast 3-4 incidents where a group member could not join our mission even tho he was in time. I think the game failed to register him properly as group member.

 

Please roll that change back, next thing the people will cry for are safe zones around their harbours....

Edited February 7, 2016 by Quarios

[poison]

If you look through the files, there's a few clear disadvantages to disengaging during boarding; essentially, the retreating crew is both more vulnerable and cannot attack/counterattack. Unless that's not actually implemented, and just in the files for kicks and giggles.

[JJWolf]

I see a patch but where has all the rum gone?... err I mean where are all the patch notes?

[Gatsu]

Can't stress this enough not a day passes by where I see people asking for help in nation while they being ganked in their homelands. This really is a bad design decision.

The worst part is, the enemy can join with 20 ships while you could maximum bring 5 friends in your group. Also we had atleast 3-4 incidents where a group member could not join our mission even tho he was in time. I think the game failed to register him properly as group member.

 

Please roll that change back, next thing the people will cry for are safe zones around their harbours....

By rolling back, safe zones around the ports is basically what you get as it's impossible to engage an enemy near his port and even if it was, even if you are just outside the ports reinforcements range, you'll very soon be far outnumbered by players anyway. This happens in every single battle unless your bringing a fleet of 5k+ BR by todays standards.

 

Keep it the way it is for the solo pvper to have at least a small chance of having at least a battle which by picking a battle can become a fair fight. Maybe we should limit joining of enemy missions by the BR difference it will create.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Gatsu