AI bots in general

[Chustler]

This is not my idea, and I don't know if I love it or not, but it's come up a bit in various threads and in TS (with Tommy Shelby and others) and I think it's worth discussing.

Does this game need any AI bots of any kind once this game gets a large population?

How many bot fleets are currently on the map at any time?

Is it reasonable to think we will have that amount or more real players on at any time once we go live?

What about having only merchant bot fleets and leave the warships to real people?

What do AI bots add to the game if there are hundreds of real players on line?

There will be a PvE server at some time by all accounts. Would it make sense to ditch AI or make them a much smaller factor on a Pvp server?

I just want to know what you all think the answers to these questions are?

[Bart Smith]

Personally dont like this feature - AI bots. Give us a decent merchant ships instead.

[Tief N Tote]

i like the way it is if i feel like pve i can if i feel like pvp i can with out having to have a character on each server. thats me though

[OlavDeng2]

Personally i think the amount of AI should depend on the amount of players on the server, is the server almost empty, plenty of AI, is the server almost full, very few AI mostly traders. AI are there to fill the empty spots for players, that being said i dont know how easy it is to implement what i belive is the best.

[maturin]

I was all up in arms until I read the 'except merchants' part of your post.

 

The job of bots is twofold: to provide targets for newbs and grinders; to do the jobs players won't do (be full-time merchants/fishermen/convoy escorts, etc).

 

I suspect we'll always need low-level bots so players can learn and level up. Other than that, I don't see much problem relegating most of the AI to merchant vessels. Bots could be use to reinforce low-population factions that should be strong and numerous historically (Spain and France), but I don't see how that is supposed to work with the current AI.

[Tief N Tote]

yea i just noticed the part about keeping ai merchants so it doesn't sound as bad

[Chustler]

yea i just noticed the part about keeping ai merchants so it doesn't sound as bad

My way of seeing who actually reads OPs and who just writes a reaction to the first sentence

[z4ys]

In my opinion Ai shouldn't attack players on a pvp server because sometimes it screws up pvp. For example gamover and i were sailing from la tortue to saint Nic that was attacked. We both got tagged by Ai. That was really annoying.

And its impossible to avoid Ai as soon as you come near port.

Because of this I believe a non aggressive Ai (like it was before the last patch) is better for pvp.

Nothing annoys me more then Ai ship tagging me in front of a pvp battle marker.

Edited December 12, 2015 by z4ys

[maturin]

On the other hand, in the PvE server the AI should hunt your ass down from the very horizon.

[Saulz]

I like the AI and don't think they should be removed even if they make a separate pve server. People like myself enjoy both pvp and pve. I don't always want to pvp or pve...I think the removal of AI is mainly something large guilds and hardcore pvpers want. As a solo or small group player, this would be horrible, and I would be forced to play on a pve server even though I really enjoy pvp...Plus...how is the solo or small group player supposed to farm gold or XP? At that point, you'll be forced into a guild to rank up or make money as this would be hard to do solo. 

 

In regards to only have merchant AI ships instead I would find that boring....I want to be able to get into to fights to rank up and make money. Also, something to consider is that fighting AI will help a lot of newer players learn the game and gain sailing skills that they can use to go and pvp. 

 

The Idea of making them non-hostile could work....that way you can only choose to take part in pve while still being able to pvp...I don't know. However, I do know that almost every major online game in which you can pvp still has AI. (Many of those games have pve servers as well.)

Edited December 12, 2015 by Saulz

[Mulcaster]

Removing AI may be fine for western Europe or eastern North America, but those of us in other time zones need the AI. In the time zone where I live, (and the map area where I choose to play) I only SEE another player about once a week.  While we all hope that after release many more will join the game, the reality of demographics means that the ratio of players will not change much, even if numbers increase. 

[Red Jack Walker]

 

I like the AI and don't think they should be removed even if they make a separate pve server. People like myself enjoy both pvp and pve. I don't always want to pvp or pve...I think the removal of AI is mainly something large guilds and hardcore pvpers want. As a solo or small group player, this would be horrible, and I would be forced to play on a pve server even though I really enjoy pvp...Plus...how is the solo or small group player supposed to farm gold or XP? At that point, you'll be forced into a guild to rank up or make money as this would be hard to do solo. 

 

In regards to only have merchant AI ships instead I would find that boring....I want to be able to get into to fights to rank up and make money. Also, something to consider is that fighting AI will help a lot of newer players learn the game and gain sailing skills that they can use to go and pvp. 

 

The Idea of making them non-hostile could work....that way you can only choose to take part in pve while still being able to pvp...I don't know. However, I do know that almost every major online game in which you can pvp still has AI. (Many of those games have pve servers as well.)

 

+1

[Young]

Hired AI ships ruin the game as i have said before if you want them to work make them Traders only that YOU need to escort and protect. I am so sick of the argument that new players need them because its soo hard here is what AI is used for! http://postimg.org/image/m66tvs365/

 

People will use them because they can and its ZERO fun when you go to defend a port battle and the brave Captains hide behind their 10 AI until the AI does all the work waste of time ruining a good game..

 

 

I am really disappointed with PB and the whole AI mechanic i know PB is supposed to be about testing the ports and such but man it needs a lot of work before you can call it a good game mechanic we fall asleep planning and executing port battles as they are so boring and such a jump through the hoops ordeal 99% of the time then you throw in 10 AI and it goes from boring to really freaking annoying there needs to be something better then the two extremes 

[BoomBox]

I also do not agree. I haven't been testing the game as long as some of you and i haven't pvp'd much. Once or twice.  I like the AI and ot be honest I think it fights damn well. Good programming on the dev side . I wouldn't like to see the AI removed or changed to just merchant ships.

 

Edit:

Sorry pushed the post button to fast. Back to topic. By removing AI you'd kill alot of pop off of the pvp server. I only speak for myself even thouhg i do not like pvp too much , i do get in to battle if i have to and i would choose the pvp server even though i always would b cannonfodder. Y? Because it's an extra thrill.

Edited December 12, 2015 by BoomBox

[z4ys]

Right now we are talking about 2 different AI meanings.

 

Ai as player escorts should be removed becuase it destroys pvp (except Trader escorts)

Ai in OW shouldnt be removed but Ai should be non aggressive on PvP servers, because a aggressiv Ai destroys PvP. But on a PvE Server Ai should be aggresive as hell.

Edited December 12, 2015 by z4ys

[Red Jack Walker]

I want to just say this.

1. Our gaming community is composed not only by hardcore Pvpers, but also by players who like both Pvp & Pve.

2. Right now AI targets are an essential subsitute to a tutorial.

I totally agree with z4ys about AI aggressiveness. In a Pvp server it should be absolutely toned down. Viceversa for a Pve server. 

[AKPyrate]

Personally, I enjoy having the AI ships to plunder.  As Mulcaster mentioned above, less populated time zones need the AI to fill out the map so we're not just sailing around exploring and trading with no opposition or chance for a fight.  I wouldn't mind AI being a bit less aggressive as they are in the current patch, but don't mind being targeted by an equal ranked ship.  On the other hand, my frigate was targeted by a St. Pavel recently (luckily I avoided the fight by about a half second, especially as it was time to turn in for the night).  Maybe one day, IF there are enough players, I could see relegating AI to merchants, though I would hope the merchant fleet expands to much larger East Indiamen instead of being topped out with a snow.  However, for my part I'd prefer to see the environments expand to the east coast of North America, the Mediterranean, maybe eventually just having the whole Atlantic, parts of the Pacific, etc. (Though just barely explored during most of our time period, I'd love to sail Alaska's inside passage, watching out for icebergs and enjoying the scenery of my backyard while looking for a fight and taking ports back from hostile natives-but I realize this would be a big stretch).

 

In summary, I'd prefer keeping the AI and expanding the 'world' as player populations increase.

[TommyShelby]

Let's keep 3 things mind when reading the following quote. 

Number 1; I'm not saying this should happen now. I'm saying it should happen some time in the future, preferably when Naval Action is released to Early Access.

Number 2; My proposal doesn't limit you in any way. If you think it does please explain why and i will do my best to throw out a counterargument.

Number 3; A basic tutorial is extremely easy to make and so there is no need to worry about this causing a problem.

 

And have never been. 

 

The following is my major annoyances;

 

Number 1: 

 

Oh my god how i hate AI... If there is something i would love it is to see no AI's at all... With the one exception being AI Traders/Merchant's hired by players. 

 

In my experience AI tends to ruin PvP completely by making ridicoulus moves that a player never would (They tend to be very stubborn about turning and will often ram you full speed for fun. Oh yeah, they also like to sail in front of you and take your bowsprit off. Mind you, i'm talking about all the AI's, not just enemy AI's. And no, ramming is not a "valid" tactic in the age of sail. No competent captain would ever ram another ship on purpose... Well, if he's trying to commit suicide or something perhaps he would.).

 

Sorry, i'm getting frustrated just thinking about AI in a PvP environment. 

My ultimate dream: 
Two shards. 

PvP shard with no AI Escorts and AI warships. Only AI traders/merchant's that have been hired by the players

- On the pvp shard, if you want escort, you hire a player/several players to escort you. 

 

PvE shard with lots of AI. AI escorts, AI warships, AI trader's and merchant's. All controlled by AI. 

- Perhaps implement a "Duel function" so the PvE players still have a chance at some PvP action (Wow, did i just say that?) 

 

Why is this my ultimate dream? 

- Let me tell you why. Because i have played i dunno, 200 games and spent atleast 10000 hours playing PC games (Yes, i'm a friggin geek!) and i have yet to try a game where AI was any competition to a half-decent player. Now you might think, well what about those "Bosses" and such that they have in World of warcraft and such? You cant' solo those can you!? No, your right, you can't. But that is because these "bosses" have thousands times more health and does hundreds times the damage that players do. 

- Sure, you can improve the AI all you want but like i said, i have yet to see any game make AI actually hard to beat without the AI being given superpowers or in general being able to do stuff players cant (In NA that could be represented by AI santissima's turning faster than player lynx's.) 

- And to finish off my comment. AI in a pvp environment also brings  a shitton of problems with it. (I don't think i need to bring up specific cases, if i do just say the word. I have several incidents in mind and can find forum post's about them all.) 

Now, i'm not saying you have to remove the AI right now. But when we get 2 shards (PvE and PvP) then sure. Heck, if the game is popular enough you can even have 3 shards! (PvE, PvP and PvPvE). 

- PvPvE being a mixture (Basically what we have now).