Ship customization

[Johny Reb]

I think guns should be modeled close to history. I don't think their should be gun mods that make my 12 pounder shoot different then your 12 pounder unless its based on a somewhat historical context. So If you mod your cannons with sights then you gain accuracy and maybe reduce time to aim. Powders would be the other way to differentiate one cannon from another but that wouldn't be so much of a mod as it would be a consumable.

 

I don't think changing guns around should protect performance of a ship. If you put 42 pounders on a ship that was only meant to carry 28 pounders then their should be a reduction in some sailing or balance qualities but thats all IMO.

[Marion van Ghent]

I think guns should be modeled close to history. I don't think their should be gun mods that make my 12 pounder shoot different then your 12 pounder unless its based on a somewhat historical context. So If you mod your cannons with sights then you gain accuracy and maybe reduce time to aim. Powders would be the other way to differentiate one cannon from another but that wouldn't be so much of a mod as it would be a consumable.

Sights wouldn't really increase accuracy as that's a property of the gun's ballistics itself. Reduced time to aim, though, is very appropriate

I don't think changing guns around should protect performance of a ship. If you put 42 pounders on a ship that was only meant to carry 28 pounders then their should be a reduction in some sailing or balance qualities but thats all IMO.

Depends on the number and location of the 42-pounders, to a degree. E.g. a 1720s demi-batterie frigate (with a rank of 6-pounders on the gun deck and 2-6 additional guns below) could feasibly* be modified to carry a pair of 42's on the lower deck -- mainly at the expense of any other lower-port guns and a few tons of carrying capacity (assuming, of course, there was enough clearance athwartships to operate them). Not so much putting them on the quarterdeck, though.

*Not that I've ever heard of that extreme a modification, or that it would necessarily be practical. It would involve strengthening the lower deck -- and probably bulwarks -- around the over-sized guns, enlarging the ports, reballasting the ship to keep her in proper trim and at proper load, all of which would add weight at the expense of carrying capacity (stores and/or cargo). Off the cuff I'd guesstimate a sacrifice of roughly twice the actual weight of the guns themselves. Such a ship would probably still handle largely the same as a more conventionally outfitted demi-batterie -- which is to say, not that great -- with the exception of being "stiff" or resistant to roll/heel. That in turn could put a strain on the rigging -- sharper, faster rolling in response to weather -- and make her a bit uncomfortable to be on, but not necessarily a worse sailer. Possibly ever so slightly better, in fact

All of this is to say there's some historically plausible room for nuance, and realistic gains and trade-offs that could be modeled. But that could become a minor nightmare to balance if carried too far.

[Samuel Adams]

I really want to play a game that is fun.

[BungeeLemming]

powder.. there is only one type to bring down the gun:

CORSE grained. If you put fine grained down the barrel it will make the gun explode. It burns too fast and the force made by it will break the barrel.

Only point where powder differes is its quality. Its said that british powders were superior in burning and exploding than french and spanish. It was more reliable to reproduce shooting.

 

Gun mods:

From what I know we will have several options to fit guns:

first: size of them obviously.

second: what KIND of gun:

- long gun, - demi cannon, - carronade. All of wich have different characteristics.

Maybe we get options like (improved) gunsights.

Also I think we will have different qualities. (dont nail me on this but I think ive read about this from devs)

Means that less quality guns will cost less but have worse attributes than high quality guns. Quality comes from the manufactoring process and will reveal their characteristics in accuracy at least. Maybe we can only use less powder or they will explode so range is a factor..

[Lucio_Garcia]

Well i get the point about powders and such like that but what about an overall weight that the ship can hold, first rate holds X amount of weight. Then you can adjust what size and type of cannons rather then mods. Because from the look of it, this is purely player base instead of skill base, which i think is a GREAT idea. But modding will ultimately be up to the captain. Would you want to be able to be able to have a bunch of 12 pound cannons or do you want a mixtures of 18's and 6s. I think that would be a interesting feature, then instead of being on a set amount you can switch it up more. Overall great game from the looks of it, cant wait to give up on POTBS.

[Alex Connor]

I'd rate each gundeck limited by a maximum size of cannon that will physically fit, and a maximum size that can be effectively operated (with increasing penalties to reloading between these limits).

 

Each deck would also have a multiplier on how much the weight of cannon fitted will affect stability (stability would be displayed as a single figure, no need to get a calculator ), the higher the gundeck the higher the penalty, encourages a realistic approach of fitting the heavier cannon on the lower gundecks. Loss of stability would introduce undesirable sailing qualities, reducing maneuverability, how close a ship can sail to the wind and speed at any angle apart from sailing directly downwind. In extreme cases or bad weather could cause the ship to capsize.

 

Increasing overall weight would also reduce speed because the ship is sitting lower in the water, with sufficient overloading it might become dangerous to open the lower gunports.

 

Lastly crew size is a limit on how many and how large guns can be effectively used. Although generally speaking a 42lb gun can be reloaded almost as fast as a 6lb gun, the bigger the gun the more crew are required to handle it (increasing the size of the 6lb guns crew will not really increase reload, there is only so much room around the smaller gun). A 24lb cannon needs a crew of 12 where a 6lb cannon only needs 6. If you don't have enough crew for each gun the reloading will be much slower (and ofc, the bigger the deficit the worse the penalty)

 

These limits would mean that fitting too many or too large cannon is actually a disadvantage and could cripple your ship, encouraging people to experiment within the bounds of feasibility.

[Samuel Adams]

I hope they use actual cannon upgrades like from Iron to brass or course to fine.That is about it.

[Brigand]

Appart from the limits introduced by the ships stability (or lack thereof), there are limits to how far cannon weight can be upgraded. The decks are designed to hold a certain weight and the sides are designed to withstand a certain recoil. Also, cannons need a room to recoil and the crew needs room to reload it.

The ship builders, captains and Admiralty all knew about this, they constantly tried to optimize the total weight of the guns a ship could bring to battle. As a result, you can expect ships of war to be at their limit with regard to the amount of guns and the weight of their shot.

You can offcourse swap long guns for cuts (short guns) or carronades, but you can't really replace a battery of 9 pounders by just a couple of 18 pounders with the same combined total weight: they wouldn't fit, would be to heavy for the deckplanking, would be almost impossible to load and, when recoiling, would severely damage the sides of the ship. So, cannon customization is quite limited for war ships. Merchant ships could be equipped with extra guns, but there are offcourse still limits to what weight of cannons you can place on your decks.

 

Brigand

[Flip]

Careful with this realism stuffz

[BungeeLemming]

Why beeing careful with realistic stuff that quite naturally provide us with gameplay mechanics

Devs already said that we will be able to customize out ships gundecks to a certain extend.

If you have a look at Sea Dogs 1&2 (aka pirates of the caribbean) you see just that. A ship has a maximum weight capacity for guns. Big guns offer a greater damage and range. Downsides: they are expensive, need more men and have a slower reload.

 

Naval action should have a similar system but calculating more factors into the whole process.

Actual cannonweight, shotweight, powderweight etc.. and the structural stability of the ship.

All the thing Brigand wrote earlier..

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah but if you are to realistic game play gets toooooo long and you will get bored really fast. None wants to take 2 hours for 1 battle.

[BungeeLemming]

the option to customize your ship has nothing to do with the lenght of a batle.

At least I cannot see the link to that point you make.

 

The way you customize your ship decides about your gameplay style thats for sure. But it does not determine how long your fight will be.

Kiting versus brawling is a playstyle. Both can last long and short.

[Samuel Adams]

I know I rolled off topic I am sorry I was talking to a friend and got side tracked.

[Johny Reb]

I took Borass to mean that realism in the way of ship speeds could cause a very long fight.

[Chunx]

I'll just be happy that I can customise my ship to be something that no one else has! Customisation rules! 

 

What I would want to know is this:

What will be the visual impact on our ship from customisation? Will things look different? Longer guns? Thicker block and tackle? Shallower keel? That sort of thing. Being able to slightly change the look of the original ship with customisation I think is what I would love most.

[Månis]

nm, missed a page and my question was already there

[BrutishVulgarian]

I hate to make more visual work for the Devs, but.     I'm not some touch me not, Lordly type Capt.  who's afraid guns in the cabin would upset my dinner guests.   I picture myself as a fighting Capt. like Jack Aubrey who would ship some extra stern chasers through the back.   Two guns way down low on the Victory just doesn't do it for me.

 

I believe Maturin mentioned that in battle, they replaced all that glass with wood, just stick a couple of cannons on.  There's the added benefit that you wont need broken glass damage textures.   It would also be a visual clue that a mystery ship may have hostile intentions.

[maturin]

I don't know how feasible that would actually be, for a large caliber gun. You need some pretty serious ironwork to hold the breachings, and the decorative wood back there might be too thin to take the strain. It wouldn't stop them in an emergency, but still.

[Destraex]

I worry about whether the wind and current effects will make battles interesting for different sail plans. 

Wind should not be a simple "same direction" for all ships. We should have gusts, multiple wind directions especially if its stormy 

and the ability to tell where the wind is stronger visually (rough water patches etc).

[Mirones]

being able to choose between a nelson paitnsheme and the black white sheme would be enough for me first.

[Månis]

I think guns should be modeled close to history. I don't think their should be gun mods that make my 12 pounder shoot different then your 12 pounder unless its based on a somewhat historical context. So If you mod your cannons with sights then you gain accuracy and maybe reduce time to aim. Powders would be the other way to differentiate one cannon from another but that wouldn't be so much of a mod as it would be a consumable.

 

I don't think changing guns around should protect performance of a ship. If you put 42 pounders on a ship that was only meant to carry 28 pounders then their should be a reduction in some sailing or balance qualities but thats all IMO.

 

 

When it comes  to Cannon reload rate and aiming, one suggestion is to not use mods to improve that but wouldnt it instead be better to use some kind of leveling system for the crew?

The more you train your crew, the better they will perform on the ship.  I mean, a less experienced crew still will do well in battle but a more experienced crew will simply perform slightly better. 

 

And to level up the crew there could be diffirent skills that you could train your crew on like for example, sailing, aiming, reloading, boarding/ close combat etc..

 

I dont quite know what way to train the crew that would be the best one as if you compare on skill leveling from other games, there are  several ways to do it.

 

One way would be  using some kind of skillpoint system like old fashion mmo's, 

Another way would be paying gold or something to level up 

Or use a time based skill leveling system like eve.. 

 

Just some thoughts...

[Johny Reb]

When it comes  to Cannon reload rate and aiming, one suggestion is to not use mods to improve that but wouldnt it instead be better to use some kind of leveling system for the crew?

The more you train your crew, the better they will perform on the ship.  I mean, a less experienced crew still will do well in battle but a more experienced crew will simply perform slightly better. 

 

And to level up the crew there could be diffirent skills that you could train your crew on like for example, sailing, aiming, reloading, boarding/ close combat etc..

 

I dont quite know what way to train the crew that would be the best one as if you compare on skill leveling from other games, there are  several ways to do it.

 

One way would be  using some kind of skillpoint system like old fashion mmo's, 

Another way would be paying gold or something to level up 

Or use a time based skill leveling system like eve.. 

Yes, I think advantages in performance could be wrapped up nicely with crew skills but must avoid the "get my crew to level 50" mentality. This would mean a fluctuating crew skill level as crew is lost and recruited, only small performance increases so that its an advantage but not a necessity in most cases and all skills learned by the crew should be passive skills without a need for a UI toolbar button.

[Månis]

Yes, I think advantages in performance could be wrapped up nicely with crew skills but must avoid the "get my crew to level 50" mentality. This would mean a fluctuating crew skill level as crew is lost and recruited, only small performance increases so that its an advantage but not a necessity in most cases and all skills learned by the crew should be passive skills without a need for a UI toolbar button.

 

But on the other hand, getting your crew to 50 ( for example ) would add some feeling of you making progress ingame.

[CaptLouis]

Crew skill variance is vital to adding flavour.

Also, there was an earlier comment about realism being undesirable - wrong, for many of us, realism is massively preferable to arcade nonsense. E.g. customising the gunnery configuration, within tight historical constraints, gives not only an effect to fighting capability, but could have a very tangible impact on sailing qualities, tacking speed, weather helm etc.

[Cochrane]

Simply being able to switch guns could replace the cannon fittings. Cannon and carronades in different calibers, short and long barreled cannon etc. Possibly keep flintlocks and open sights as attachments, alternatively they might only be found on newer cannon designs.

 

I'd prefer different rigging options over sail fittings, royals, studding sails and the like as options. More sails requires more crew to use them effectively, ships like Indiamen might not carry all types or have a smaller overall rig to save on crew costs. Other options could include copper sheathed hulls (allowing ships to remain at sea for longer before losing speed from marine growth fouling the underside) or wood sheathed hulls (cheaper than copper but less effective).

 

PotBS had an interesting system but some of the options were not very realistic, increased damage fittings, racebuilt hulls on existing ships etc and Naval Action can do better. 

That kind of customization (weight of metal vs. range) based on maximum possible that the hull can support seems a fairly simple way to provide a lot of flexibility to suit multiple strategies. Would be interesting if it were possible to exceed design specs by some percentage in exchange for a significant risk. Also, what about pitching your cannons/cargo overboard to gain more speed?

 

Is this kind of thing contemplated? Is there a link to the plans for this kind of customization?

 

 

Every day I'm not playing this game is a day that is incomplete.