What shall be the starter ships?

[Jack Redmen]

...One option might be that you could captain a ship you don't own....you earn a lot less but could sail a better valued vessel. This might work if there is some sort of Navy Career...based more on exploits than wealth....

 

I like this.  It's realistic.  Only a successful/wealthy captain would have ever owned their ship anyways.  This would give you more room to progress and advance within the game too.  Actually being able to buy your ship out would be an achievement. 

[BusterGut]

One ship to start with but it'd have to be from a choice of 3, ie Navy ship, merchant ship or courier, so you can start in whatever profession you like best.

 

For me it'd be a merchant ship to make money to buy other ships 

[Austrum]

Yacht is an extra. Cannot be considered as a starting point. Forget that it exists.

 

Why can't it be consider a starting point?  Honestly I expect it to likely be the starting ship for anyone who pre-ordered or else what purpose does it have?  They said the Yacht was worth $20 well a $20 premium in any other game usually gets me experience bonus, earning bonuses or similar so it just kind of makes sense that your pre-order premium 12-gun Yacht would be your go to starter/fallback ship if you pre-ordered.  Basically it is a small boost over starting with a 8-gun Lynx both ships which will be replaced rather quickly so yeah until I hear otherwise, I don't see any reason why it can't be considered one of the starting ships.

[Domestikos]

Hope Yacht is one of the ships we will have available for starters..Very good vessel.

[maturin]

I hope we don't have to start in a rowboat arbitrarily.

Medium-sized vessels should be available at the start, but with strings attached. More to lose, more responsibilities and orders to follow.

Ie, a merchant captain may start with a full-rigged ship, but some if your voyages are planned out in advance by the owners. And your cut of the profits is much smaller than that of the coastal trader or smuggler in business for himself with a light vessel.

And maybe players can start out as a post captain at the cost of being assigned convoy duty and blockade until they prove their mettle. Independent types can take the revenue cutter and cruise more at will.

[Austrum]

I hope we don't have to start in a rowboat arbitrarily.

Medium-sized vessels should be available at the start, but with strings attached. More to lose, more responsibilities and orders to follow.

Ie, a merchant captain may start with a full-rigged ship, but some if your voyages are planned out in advance by the owners. And your cut of the profits is much smaller than that of the coastal trader or smuggler in business for himself with a light vessel.

And maybe players can start out as a post captain at the cost of being assigned convoy duty and blockade until they prove their mettle. Independent types can take the revenue cutter and cruise more at will.

 

See this I don't agree with for multiple reasons.  First, it is kind of hard to get the hang of something like the Brig where as the Lynx, Cutter and Privateer as pretty easy to sail even as a newbie.  That being the case, you toss a newbie in a brig, they are likely to get frustrated rather than have fun.  Second, I kind of think the newbie experience should be from the perspective of a newbie.  What I mean by that is you start as a young Master and Commander given his own ship for the very first time.   Obviously since your out on your first command, no one is going to risk a larger, harder to replace ship, not until you have proven yourself, so instead they put you on a Lynx running goods or such to the next port.  Maybe if your Navy, you are tasked with providing coastal defense against pirates and enemy privateers.  Maybe you an a few other managed to steal a small ship and off you go to be a pirate.  However in all cases, you start off new, with little resources and very basic and they grow from there.

[Kngsbrg]

cant last many shots or attacks from pirates

 

It is 1815 and yet you are still talking pirates?

 

Privateers? Yes. Pirates? Arrr, no!

 

Other than than, solid proposal.

[Elysion]

I think the cutter should be the starting ship, with the yacht as the alternative for pre orders

And the lynx should be converted to fire wood. Unless it has an uncharacteristically large hold or something and is actually a multipurpose tiny armed merchantman or something. 4 guns per side is complete garbage!

I am over reacting, i admit, but i never claimed to be reasonable. While i may be using hyperbole, and i may be including this as a disclaimer, i am also extremely unfavorable to the lynx. I would like to harm it, if only it had real corporeal form and was not just bits in a game, if it could reason i would insult it, if it could feel i would hit it.

This of course actually makes it the perfect starting ship, because the idea is that nobody should want to stay in the starting ship. The cutter and yacht can actually be fun, some people may even prefer them, just wanting to mess around and be a pest. That doesnt change anything right now though, i am enraged. If only all these years of social isolation with only text and the internet to convey my feelings did not deprive my body for any outward emotion i would not be sitting here calm and expressionless while typing this, i would be thrashing around, snarling at the walls and the computer screen and have broken my keyboard by now, reveling in the surge of adrenalin and enjoying my complete repulsion and disgust instead of depending on caffeine to keep myself even awake.

tl:dr - I don't particularaly like the lynx.

[Kaaru62]

I am curious to see how overall ship progression will work.  I hope it doesn't end up with everyone running around in Victory's and Santisima's. it would be more real if a big player run ship is around a Snow class, with common boats being around the Privateer / Brig sizes.

[Elysion]

Ideally people wont just progress upwards but consider what the best ratio of cost/risk/reward is for what they are wanting to do. So while getting a big and/or powerful ship may not be that hard if thats what you set your goal on, recovering from the loss of it will be a fairly big deal and only something that the more established players can take in stride. So while you may have one, you may elect to only use it for important situations relating to the power struggle between nations, and use a cheaper more sensible ship for normal day to day activity.

 

For example you may have a third rate, but one you only bring out when traveling in a large fleet of your allies off to do something important. Whereas sir bob with his wheelbarrow of gold may be able to just take his third rate around town for kicks and taunt everyone to try and sink him.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Elysion

[Sir. Cunningham]

Why this of course:

[relic]

An idea would be to start in a small ship like a lynx or cutter without guns and play through a short tutorial; like how to use the UI, how to sail, purchase and sell cargo etc. Then you'd get a mission to help protect or attack something together with some AI and be given guns for this purpose. This mission would work as a tutorial on how to fight. In the end you'd lose the battle *fade to black* and wake up and find out that you've lost your ship, cargo, guns and most of your crew. Then a smaller "starting ship" would be given to you as a thank you and recompense for your help in the mission. Then the game would start for real from there.

 

I feel this would make for an impressive start to the game and actually make people want to work to get back the ship they lost. It would make the lynx, cutter and other ships of similar size actually feel like they are worth something when you manage to get one.

Edited February 26, 2015 by relic

[Hodggoblin]

It is 1815 and yet you are still talking pirates?

 

Privateers? Yes. Pirates? Arrr, no!

 

Other than than, solid proposal.

Pirates are happening.

 

 

As for the topic at hand.  With currently available options of ships, the lynx should be the starter ship and/or the yacht for those that got it the alpha buy in.  I do not like the idea of being able to start in anything bigger, reguardless of the early path you choose.  Also, the starter ship will need to be replaceable for free if you sink your ship and have no ships available where you respawn.

[Austrum]

I think the cutter should be the starting ship, with the yacht as the alternative for pre orders

And the lynx should be converted to fire wood. Unless it has an uncharacteristically large hold or something and is actually a multipurpose tiny armed merchantman or something. 4 guns per side is complete garbage!

I am over reacting, i admit, but i never claimed to be reasonable. While i may be using hyperbole, and i may be including this as a disclaimer, i am also extremely unfavorable to the lynx. I would like to harm it, if only it had real corporeal form and was not just bits in a game, if it could reason i would insult it, if it could feel i would hit it.

This of course actually makes it the perfect starting ship, because the idea is that nobody should want to stay in the starting ship. The cutter and yacht can actually be fun, some people may even prefer them, just wanting to mess around and be a pest. That doesnt change anything right now though, i am enraged. If only all these years of social isolation with only text and the internet to convey my feelings did not deprive my body for any outward emotion i would not be sitting here calm and expressionless while typing this, i would be thrashing around, snarling at the walls and the computer screen and have broken my keyboard by now, reveling in the surge of adrenalin and enjoying my complete repulsion and disgust instead of depending on caffeine to keep myself even awake.

tl:dr - I don't particularaly like the lynx.

 

The thing about the Lynx was despite being very weak, it is very forgiving to sail.  I mean you can't really do anything wrong with it.  It it maneuverable, tacks easily and pretty much gives a perfect introduction to sailing.  This makes it perfect.  The Cutter was a hell of alot harder to sail and even the privateer which is mostly an up-gunned Lynx isn't near as forgiving or easy.   Also as you mention, no one will stay in it very long so it will solely be useful as a newbie trainer/fallback.  Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, I predict that us pre-order alpha tester/supporters will actually get to use the Yacht as our Starter vessel which means we will likely pretty much get to bypass the Lynx and Cutter and move directly to privateer-like performance.  

[Windy]

Heres the Royal Navys Rank structure, NOTE highlited...

 

COMMISSIONED OFFICERS

This group of officers were at first appointed to a ship for particular commissions and were ranked according to seniority of first appointment at that rank.

 

Captain.

The title of Captain was universal to the most senior officer commanding a ship whatever his actual rank. On promotion from Lieutenant, officers were appointed to a small ship eg. sloop, cutter etc.(equivalent to today’s rank of Commander) and after sufficient experience was given command of  a rated ship (1st – 5th rate) as a post (equivalent to today’s rank of Captain). Duties on board ship were to prepare the ship for sailing, make inventories of stores and write reports for the Admiralty on work being done on the ship. He also had to recruit the ship’s complement and record details in the muster book. During a voyage, he was responsible for the ship and crew’s well being, including feeding, clothing, health and discipline, maintain the log of the ship, and delegate authority as necessary. He was also responsible for directing the ship’s activities in naval engagements.

 

 

Commander

The rank of Commander was formally instituted in 1794, obtainable only by being commissioned to command a vessel, smaller than post-ships but larger than vessels commanded by Lieutenants. After this date, post-Captains were appointed solely from the Commanders list. In 1827, the term became used for the Captain’s second-in-command. First Lieutenants in battleships were made Commanders, although this was an unpopular move with Lieutenants who were actually commanding smaller vessels. It then became the custom to refer to the second-in-command of a ship as the Commander.

 

Lieutenant-Commander

The description of Lieutenant (in) Command applied to Lieutenants who were commanding small naval vessels, who might, in bigger ships, otherwise be known as Commander. In 1827 this changed when the rank of Commander came to be that of a Captain’s second-in-command. However, in recognition of their being senior lieutenants, they were given a distinction setting them apart from the junior lieutenants including a different uniform. Lieutenants of eight years service were usually given this distinction, forming in essence a new rank. In 1875, they were allowed to include a “half-stripe” to the two full stripes of Lieutenant. In March 1914, the substantive rank of Lieutenant-Commander was established with automatic promotion for Lieutenants of eight years service.

 

Lieutenant

The rank of Lieutenant can be traced back to 1580 with the simple reason of being an understudy to the Captain in case of accident or illness, although they were not permanently established. After the restoration, Samuel Pepys introduced  an examination to test the abilities of the rank and by doing so transformed their status from mere understudy to an actual job with particular duties attached. The senior lieutenant, known as the First Lieutenant and was responsible for the organisation of the ship and administration under the guidance of the Captain. This post eventually turned into the rank of Commander. He was responsible for maintaining discipline and navigation and with the junior lieutenants responsible for ensuring the crew carried out their duties. He was in charge of watches. Lieutenants received their commissions for particular ships and the position within the officer ranks.  An officer was required to have at least six years service at sea before passing the examination for promotion to Lieutenant. It was possible for the officer to pass many years at this rank until the eventual distinction between Lieutenants of eight years service and the eventual establishment of the rank of Lieutenant-Commander.

 

 

Sub-Lieutenants/Master’s Mates

In principle, any person who satisfied the age and service conditions and passed the examination could be commissioned, it was usual for candidates for commissioned ranks to pass through a number of ratings including that of Master’s Mate. This was technically a senior petty officer rank. He learnt navigation from the Master and generally assisted him. This rank was more highly paid than any other rating and were the only ratings allowed to command any sort of vessel. They could pass examinations qualifying them to command prizes and tenders and act as Second Master of vessels too small to be allocated a warranted Master. In 1824, there was a split and would be Masters became Masters Assistants and would be Lieutenants remained as Master’s Mates. In 1840, Mates were established as a rank below Lieutenants and in 1860, renamed as Sub-Lieutenants. It then became the most junior commissioned rank and the only route to promotion to Lieutenant.

[Ned Loe]

Start with this:

 

 

Make your way to the port and start a story line where you would get a much bigger ship.

[Noobdelux]

Perfect!

[Austrum]

Start with this:

 

 

Make your way to the port and start a story line where you would get a much bigger ship.

 

 

Works!!!

[Johny Reb]

I choose the Federalist.. Its the boat pictured in my avatar. It was a gift to Washington in honor of the signing of the American Constitution by the state of Maryland but was wrecked 6 weeks later in a hurricane. Its only 15' long.

 

Its small enough to be a starter ship, its square rigged so players can learn about manual sailing early, its gorgeous. Can you imagine this modeled and sailing next to a Vic. It would simply be hilarious. Vote for it next round of ship selection

[Dharus]

My hope is that there isn't such a thing as a starter ship.

 

A lot of games have this arms race/leveling system treadwheel that forces players to do xyz.  If this is shooting for sandbox game feeling, then if I begin the game in a small ship then as I play I shouldn't feel pressured to upgrade.  That means there needs to be a "endgame" role for smaller ships.  Whether that's playing cat and mouse with merchants, scouting for fleets, shallow water fighting, or whatever, there should be a role for smaller ships (or starter ships) or we might all as well start out as larger ships and skip grinding xp, reputation, or tiddlywinks to get them if that is the only endgame.  PotBS was all about grinding to 50 to sail larger and larger ships.  Lets skip that and develop a role for the smaller ships so that a privateer isn't just a 5 minute road bump to SoLs.

[Johny Reb]

Well the devs did say that is their goal. I hope its possible.