Zuikaku Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problems of too wide formations started when players did not want the automatic reduction of speed of the division leader, so now when the division leader travels at maximum speed, the following ship cannot catch him, unless the division leader slows down (no player will slow him down) or we add artificial aids so that the ships behind exceed their maximum speed in order to catch up.... realism over practicality, what do players want? Realism. Slow down formation leader, please. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: This appears new... we will check. from 1900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problems of too wide formations started when players did not want the automatic reduction of speed of the division leader, so now when the division leader travels at maximum speed, the following ship cannot catch him, unless the division leader slows down (no player will slow him down) or we add artificial aids so that the ships behind exceed their maximum speed in order to catch up.... realism over practicality, what do players want? I'm tempted to say 'invest in UI indicators like yellow exclamation points' to alert players about the issue, and let them decide if they want the formation to fall apart or not. But that's a lot of work for little payoff. A compromise solution might be be: 1. loose formation: no speed restrictions, [it's devil take the hindmost] 2. normal: leader goes at full speed but not flank speed, other ships can catch up by going at flank speed. 3. Tight: leader goes at cruise speed, other ships can easily catch up. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o Barão Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Well, one excellent new, is that long shadows are turn on in this version. I have no idea why they were disabled in the past, but I am glad to see them again.✌️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: Did you have shared designs used in this campaign? Does someone else have this issue? Giant shipyard. This is the problem of Italy, regardless of the starting year and shared designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 30 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problems of too wide formations started when players did not want the automatic reduction of speed of the division leader, so now when the division leader travels at maximum speed, the following ship cannot catch him, unless the division leader slows down (no player will slow him down) or we add artificial aids so that the ships behind exceed their maximum speed in order to catch up.... realism over practicality, what do players want? I think I'm missing something... Right now, when a ship in a formation takes damage, the entire formation slows down. This is logical, if it is important to me, I separate the damaged ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lima said: I think I'm missing something... Right now, when a ship in a formation takes damage, the entire formation slows down. This is logical, if it is important to me, I separate the damaged ship. I think he means if a formation leader is moving at top speed there's no prospect for trailing ships with the same top speed to catch up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PC Collector Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Would be possible to get a button to cycle among names on the name list when designing a class? Also, are there any plans to allow refitting captured ships anytime soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urst Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problems of too wide formations started when players did not want the automatic reduction of speed of the division leader, so now when the division leader travels at maximum speed, the following ship cannot catch him, unless the division leader slows down (no player will slow him down) or we add artificial aids so that the ships behind exceed their maximum speed in order to catch up.... realism over practicality, what do players want? Force the lead ship to slow down until the rest of its formation gets into range, on a toggle. I'd also like to see ships that can't maintain formation speed simply break off and auto-revert to AI (also on a toggle, but in the options, defaulted to Off) instead of trying to join the end of the formation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodaBit Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problems of too wide formations started when players did not want the automatic reduction of speed of the division leader, so now when the division leader travels at maximum speed, the following ship cannot catch him, unless the division leader slows down (no player will slow him down) or we add artificial aids so that the ships behind exceed their maximum speed in order to catch up.... realism over practicality, what do players want? 1: to answer your question, I'd take practicality over realism. If all ships in a formation are undamaged, such as at the beginning of a battle, I don't mind having ships exceed their top speeds in order to keep formations, or assist with creating new formations if the player so chooses. This worked out fine in the Battlestations series, where ships were given 5 knot speed boosts when getting into formation, or when the player changed their exact position in a formation. Breaking realism for the sake of greater control over a formation didn't detract from the gameplay experience, it just added to it. 2: This still doesn't explain why ships behind the leader of a line formation would slow down. If they can't keep up with the leader, then they should still be sailing at full speed in order to keep up with a formation's leader as best they can, not dropping their speed so that the gap between them and the leader gets bigger. The formation pictured started out as 2 separate formations, one line of 4 CL's with about 750m between each and 1 CL off the port bow of the other formation's leading ship at about 2,000m distance. I ordered the 1 CL off to the side to fall in behind the other 4 CL's. All units had above 90% fuel, and were completely undamaged. The only reasonable fault with the formation that could have occurred after grouping up would have been the 5th CL trailing slightly behind the other 4 maybe at about 1,500m, with the gap between the leading 4 possibly expanding slightly. As it happened, each ship was trailing each other by about 4,250m. Had the battle not ended after 30 minutes of searching, this gap would have likely expanded even further. Edit: I should add that I tried slowing down the lead ship in order to fix the problem. It didn't, the trailing ships just slowed down even more, and didn't try to catch up with the lead ship. Edited January 4, 2023 by SodaBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PC Collector Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 The "Yes" button on dialogs becomes unresponsive almost every single turn. Right now I'm spending more time reloading to fix it than playing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKirk Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) @Nick ThomadisI actually did have shared designs enabled in this campaign (though I don't know yet whether the AI has had a chance to use them), and I did not have this yard size issue in a previous 1.1 campaign I played as France 1890. When I get a minute tomorrow I'll launch a new 1900 campaign as Italy without any custom ships and let you know if I have the same issue. EDIT: Oh, it seems I am not alone on this and @admiralsnackbar beat me to it. If it would still be helpful for me to replicate this issue in a new campaign just let me know, otherwise I'll get back to hitting Austria-Hungary so hard they go back to being two different countries >:) Edited January 4, 2023 by AdmiralKirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamplet Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 i just tested this update (hotfix 11) and words fail me, i dont even know how to describe some of what im seeing. i tested steering on a destroyer which now does a kind of tokyo drift. its oversteering but sliding sideways at the same time like a drift car in a racing game. large ship behaviour is no better at all, they are still oversteering and weaving side to side after a turn. whatever changes were made to tactical battles in update 1.1 are just not working, i know this represents time and money for you as a company but i think you need to go back to the 1.09 battle system that was playable and start again. 1.1 system is completely unplayable and has been from the start and its still a complete mess after 11 hotfixes. does anyone test these fixes before releasing them or are you relying on the community to do any and all testing ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangoriously Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 since update 11 the game has been extremely... functional. there are land invasions all over, navel invasons are working, the turns take a few minutes but always complete, the first button in a text box works, the frame rate is higher in navel battles, the game is in good shape right now! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirTrafalgar Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 13 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said: The problem of path oscillation is very old, now shown evidently with the UI and has minimal effect in the gameplay This is why there is no need for overexcitement. We already look to fix everything that you, the players report, but overexcitement and drama adds nothing to the result you, the players, seek. We will fix everything according to what is possible. Regarding the rudder, we remove until it can be stable, not causing any bugs. That is all there is to it. I am impressed with the work your team is doing under such incredible circumstances, and I really want this game to be great, but the path oscillation does have a huge impact on gameplay. Unless you are traveling at maximum designed speeds you are subject to: 1. Reduced accuracy unless traveling at maximum designed speed, then the lead ship in a formation receives the maneuver accuracy penalty. Since the lead ship in a battleline is often targeted by the AI damage received means the formation can never get to a stable path. *Quick fix here, reduce the bonuses and minuses to accuracy related to maneuvering and speed and then reduce the damage penalty temporarily while you get the pathing under more control 2. Never being sure where your ships behind you will try to go to next to stay in formation means that even if you put all your ships in formation with the oscillation bug you're never sure where they will end up because they are currently moving with your lead ship and the pathing can be wildly different. Enough so that in the early game the path that is not in torpedo range is now in torpedo range. Early game I have lost several ships this way. Even worse is when I have had ships ram the enemy because they have gone wildly off course trying to follow the lead ship that's oscillating. *if its possible to go back to 1.09 oscillation with the quick fix above it should mitigate the following and the real underlying gameplay issue. 3. It removes player agency due to a bug. This is what is infuriating us. We know its a bug you know its a bug and sure we can have a reasonable disagreements about how much this effects game play, but at the end of the day its still a bug and its infuriating to play, and infuriating to loose ships to. If I don't feel like playing the game because its no longer enjoyable then it defeats the purpose of the game, to be fun. This bug isn't fun. You and your team have done amazing work to get this patch to a place that it can be in. I am also not trying to say fix it now, take your time. Take as much time as you need, but please do not release this to live in this state. If the player base who is used to braving the beta is warning about this bug the wider player base will not tolerate it and shrink, and my fear is once those people go they won't come back. We want the game to do well and work. Battles are less playable now than in 1.09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) Free-to-build submarines With the update, I need to drop the old test campaign, but I'll show this old bug on it again. And you can also notice the size of the shipyard. Submarines are free-to-build (FTB). Everything I said about submarines in this post is still valuable. Even worse, now if you need to land, submarines will constantly attack your forces and inflict magical damage. You can say that this is the correct behavior of submarines. Yes, but why can't my 20 destroyers keep 1 submarine away from my battleships or at least guaranteed to kill her? In short, if it is possible to at least fix FTB bug, it would be very cool. Edited January 4, 2023 by Lima ttypo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) Every time I engage in a battle, the "Yes" button goes on vacation immediately after. Leaving no choice but to reload game. A bit irksome... Edited January 4, 2023 by Kane 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangoriously Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 ya yes buttons stopped working again 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Sattler Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 On the save-game that used to hang up on Building New Ships the following round in the previous Hotfix, I was now able to advance into the next round. So whatever the cause of that freeze was, seems to have been fixed. I'm still going to start a new campaign though to make sure it's free of artifacts from the previous version. It was only a bit over a year in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 The opponent can't decide what to do. They're attacking the convoy, but not really. It's a waste of time. Not even my time, I'm doing work/reading books. This is a waste of time for testing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PC Collector Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Welp... UK came back, which bricked the campaign. Now turns get stuck on "Update Research" when it comes to UK's part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastreaumont Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 39 minutes ago, Lima said: They're attacking the convoy, but not really. It's a waste of time. Not even my time, I'm doing work/reading books. This is a waste of time for testing. Same observation. My game experience is far better since I play with 2 computers: one for this game and another one for another game or other stuffs. Without transition. Concerning the "yes" buttons vacations, I noticed this happens after a played battle (autoresolve don't do that). Personal speculation: this could be an old issue because I noticed on previous versions that when I had an "ask for peace treaty" window just after a battle, I needed to wait some time (few seconds) to have a responding "yes" button. I'm not sure, but on these old versions the "yes" button seemed to be redrawed when it became functionnal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenturionsofRome Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 28 minutes ago, The PC Collector said: Welp... UK came back, which bricked the campaign. Now turns get stuck on "Update Research" when it comes to UK's part. Oh good, I'm not the only one having this problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 39 minutes ago, The PC Collector said: Welp... UK came back, which bricked the campaign. Now turns get stuck on "Update Research" when it comes to UK's part. + France in my case. Eternal hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I haven't started a new campaign but i've made a new quick video of the turning, first at half speed and then at full: The fishtailing is still definitely there, however it's less than before and especially on more nimble ships (CLs, DDs) it's much less of a problem. It's definitely better overall, but on the other hand it still doesn't feel ideal. A ship should almost never overshoot the turn (especially if not going at flank speed), and even if it does it definitely shouldn't overshoot when recovering from the first turn. Still i'd say it's more playable than before and usable even without manual rudder, however it needs improvements to reach a level closer to the smoothness in 1.8. Formations work really well, the only issue is that any ship in the formation is slightly slower than the one before it, so formations end up being stretched out. However someone else has already reported it so it's ok. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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