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[RedParadize]

@DougToss@akd I have no idea if you ever sailed, but you two, among others, are undoubtedly well informed about naval warfare. While I have and will certainly argue against some of your statement, when they are about naval warfare history I am be incline to take them on face value. If we would have it your way I am certain the game would be very accurate, realistic and historical.

But look at how many time you had to correct misconception, its almost half the comment here. If the game would be as you like, all these explanation would have to be baked into the game.

On that note, peace out, this forum is exhausting.

Edited December 13, 2021 by RedParadize

[akd]

If small ships need cover and concealment for balance, why not add barrels and crates for them to hide behind?  Really big barrels and crates.  If you are not going to implement the real factors that “balanced” their use in actual battles (i.e. tactics), and instead create something totally artificial to force fake balance because some other real factor is totally missing from the game, this would at least be clear and direct for players to comprehend.  The destroyer is behind a crate.  You can’t shoot it or see it, but it can throw grenades at you and shoot its guns over the top of the crate at you.  The batteship behind it is not behind a crate so you can see it and shoot it.  This is easy to understand.

(Sorry, being snarky because also exhausted.)

Edited December 13, 2021 by akd

[Danelin Aruna]

Advocating for realistic spotting actually helps you develop better tactics, if engagement ranges are artificially shortened then the tactics you have become less as you have less room to maneuver. Longer realistic sight lines would help a lot in being able to maneuver for advantage, its to late if I'm 3km off to try to develop a plan then it becomes a shoot out.

and the reasons the Guadalcanal campaign was fought at night was because during the day the Americans owned the airspace. This was eventually won by the Americans for employing Radar in night engagements.

So yes technology should play a part, but during the day with no clouds and calm seas, you should be able to see everything within 20km of you, most likely it would be further, due to mast height. with that further range of sight you would be freed up to develop your plan of action and maneuver your forces the way you want, which I would argue help tactical situations not hinder them.

Also the AI seemingly knows where you are already as they always run straight away from you when they run, even before you make visual contact, if possible restrict the AI so they would have to close the range to know what they are fighting. Maybe that will help with the whole they run away all the time.

[catloverjerrygarcia]

2 minutes ago, Danelin Aruna said:

This was eventually won by the Americans for employing Radar in night engagements.

An aspect of the early night campaigns between IJN and USN forces was the Japanese had been training for years on night actions.  And the USN didn't yet trust and fully understand how to utilize radar to full effect.

[Darth Khyron]

Here is an image for clarification of my above-mentioned and discussed closeness of destroyers. Perhaps it will help to
better understand what I mean.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Darth Khyron

[Grayknight]

To all that claim AI cannot build good ships i present you monster of north sea. Warship responsible for my lose of 2 CA; 2CL and 1 DD. If i loose this campaign it will be his fault (also dd raming needs to be fixed becouse for now dd will clip throu ships with minimal damage (note amount in the text on one of the pictures. Also ships that are held with duct tape after battle should be scutled without lost of the crew after battle (1% of flotability shouldent reach port after battle)


Oh and on the bottom of the list German BC that is using mark 1 guns in 1920

Edited December 14, 2021 by Grayknight

[TAKTCOM]

13 hours ago, catloverjerrygarcia said:

An aspect of the early night campaigns between IJN and USN forces was the Japanese had been training for years on night actions.  And the USN didn't yet trust and fully understand how to utilize radar to full effect.

I find the most delicious part of this story is that the Americans were convinced that "...Those Japs are bloody fools...They can't see at night and they're not well trained...". 😁

[Nick Thomadis]

Hello admirals,

We have deployed a small patch with important improvements. This is the last small patch prior to our next large content update for the game. Please take a look what it includes:

*Patch v99* (14/12/2021)
- Significant AI improvement to be more aggressive and responsive.
- Flooding chance increases further at heavily damaged ships (aids to sink crippled ships faster).
- Shell dispersion improvement to be not so high at close range shots.
- Fixed a collider issue which affected fire arc calculations, created overlaps and auto-design errors.
- Fixed issue of auto-design producing ships with excessive funnels.
- Fixed bug that made Operational Range to become maximum for new designs in Naval Academy and consequently make hull weight too large (In Naval Academy the range cannot be edited).
- Some UI fixes.
- Battle Sound improvement for several impact hits. 

[RedParadize]

One thing bug me allot in the campaign blockade system.

The way I understand it, blockade become possible when power projection is roughly double the opposing nation. The map is too small to reveal other aspect of it, if there is any.

The problem I see with that is that power projection weight is mostly on the offensive side. Long range BBs weight much more than a short range CA. That mean a nation, say Austro-Hungarian empire, can't really play defensive and build mostly coast line defense ships. Nor is it possible to play it "jeune ecole" style. Off course, if the nation in question has colony it would change the way it works.

I assume we will get a more refined system in the future. Ideally something that allow nations to adapt their strategy and fleet composition according to their situation and doctrine.

[Grayknight]

I am sad to say that blocade is silly since i am blocaded? is that a word ? but i have better fleet then my enemy, i want to fight to brake blocade in fact i would love it, but i simply cannot, there is no option... So it is arcade like point measure system in which bad things heapen to you becouse you did not build ships that would be worth enaugh point, no matter if you build actually good and BIG fleet (i am bloced while i have more ships then enemy!)

[Norbert Sattler]

With the latest hotfix, the AI still has this stupid desire to open up the range to a point where they have below 0 % chance to hit.

I just had a match that was even stupider, because the AI wasted most of it's main-gun ammo to the point of going into the yellow, at which point they stopped shooting... but still kept the range open, either closing to a distance where they would attack again, not trying to actually flee... just circling there...

And because the enemy was faster than me, I couldn't retreat to end this farce either, so I had to let the timer run out... while stuck at x5 time-rate...

This REALLY needs a fix.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Norbert Sattler

[Nick Thomadis]

1 hour ago, RedParadize said:

One thing bug me allot in the campaign blockade system.

The way I understand it, blockade become possible when power projection is roughly double the opposing nation. The map is too small to reveal other aspect of it, if there is any.

The problem I see with that is that power projection weight is mostly on the offensive side. Long range BBs weight much more than a short range CA. That mean a nation, say Austro-Hungarian empire, can't really play defensive and build mostly coast line defense ships. Nor is it possible to play it "jeune ecole" style. Off course, if the nation in question has colony it would change the way it works.

I assume we will get a more refined system in the future. Ideally something that allow nations to adapt their strategy and fleet composition according to their situation and doctrine.

 

17 minutes ago, Grayknight said:

I am sad to say that blocade is silly since i am blocaded? is that a word ? but i have better fleet then my enemy, i want to fight to brake blocade in fact i would love it, but i simply cannot, there is no option... So it is arcade like point measure system in which bad things heapen to you becouse you did not build ships that would be worth enaugh point, no matter if you build actually good and BIG fleet (i am bloced while i have more ships then enemy!)

Regarding the blockade, currently it depends on the power projection value of ship types, their displacement and their range. We will show more clearly later what is the power projection of your fleet in order to understand better why it becomes blockaded. If you tend to build many torpedo boats, very small cruisers without the support of battleships, then you can expect that you will be blockaded often or lose too many transports in a sea region where your fleet power is not enough to control it.

5 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

With the latest hotfix, the AI still has this stupid desire to open up the range to a point where they have below 0 % chance to hit.

I just had a match that was even stupider, because the AI wasted most of it's main-gun ammo to the point of going into the yellow, at which point they stopped shooting... but still kept the range open, either closing to a distance where they would attack again, not trying to actually flee... just circling there...

It would help to know the circumstances. Did you play a campaign battle or a custom battle? Was your ship a different class, what was its armament, what was its firepower roughly compared to your ship? Such a report would be more helpful.

We could see this report differently, a player wants to kill the AI badly with a more powerful ship, by shortening the distance for his torpedoes, and we must make an AI "clever" enough to sacrifice itself for offering fun to the player.

[RedParadize]

Look at the maintenance cost of this ship! 😂

[Nick Thomadis]

9 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

Look at the maintenance cost of this ship! 😂

This must be a bug, we will look to it. Maybe it is a UI issue only.
No, it is a rare issue for ships with very high stats for Hull Form. We will fix.

[RedParadize]

8 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

This must be a bug, we will look to it. Maybe it is a UI issue only.

That one is a bug for sure yes. But Maintenance cost is a tad all over the place. In the campaign its a restrictive factor. For example otherwise beautiful advanced cruiser I&II on the German side have prohibitive maintenance cost. More than twice the cost of Heavy cruiser II&III, which are researched before and after.

[Nick Thomadis]

1 minute ago, RedParadize said:

That one is a bug for sure yes. But Maintenance cost is a tad all over the place. In the campaign its a restrictive factor. For example otherwise beautiful advanced cruiser I&II on the German side have prohibitive maintenance cost. More than twice the cost of Heavy cruiser II&III, which are researched before and after.

It is related to hull form differences and fuel consumption. It is going to be fixed.

[RedParadize]

What decides the maintenance cost? I can see that some factor seem to be weighted in the formula, but its a bit obscure.

[Norbert Sattler]

22 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

 

Regarding the blockade, currently it depends on the power projection value of ship types, their displacement and their range. We will show more clearly later what is the power projection of your fleet in order to understand better why it becomes blockaded. If you tend to build many torpedo boats, very small cruisers without the support of battleships, then you can expect that you will be blockaded often or lose too many transports in a sea region where your fleet power is not enough to control it.

It would help to know the circumstances. Did you play a campaign battle or a custom battle? Was your ship a different class, what was its armament, what was its firepower roughly compared to your ship? Such a report would be more helpful.

We could see this report differently, a player wants to kill the AI badly with a more powerful ship, by shortening the distance for his torpedoes, and we must make an AI "clever" enough to sacrifice itself for offering fun to the player.

It was part of a 1900 campaign with me playing Britain, a single CA vs. CA match.

Mine had 12k tons vs. the enemy 10.999 tons.

I had 2x2 229, 4x1 102 (turret) and 4x102 casemate guns, while the enemy had 2x2 208mm, plus an assortment of secondary guns I can't exactly remember, though it was an assortment of 76 casemates and 51mm turrets with much bigger numbers than my secondaries.

I had 23 knots, he had 28.something and we both only had mark 1 coincidence rangefinders.

At 6.5 km he occasionally turned broadside to me (even after stopping to fire) and if the range opened up to 6.7, at which point we lost visual contact with each other, he turned almost fully toward me... for a little bit, before resuming his circling.

Edit: Oh and I started the campaign with the previous hotfix and updated partway through... in the unlikely case this influences the AI behaviour.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Norbert Sattler

[Nick Thomadis]

6 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

It was part of a 1900 campaign with me playing Britain, a single CA vs. CA match.

Mine had 12k tons vs. the enemy 10.999 tons.

I had 2x2 229, 4x1 102 (turret) and 4x102 casemate guns, while the enemy had 2x2 208mm, plus an assortment of secondary guns I can't exactly remember, though it was an assortment of 76 casemates and 51mm turrets with much bigger numbers than my secondaries.

I had 23 knots, he had 28.something and we both only had mark 1 coincidence rangefinders.

At 6.5 km he occasionally turned broadside to me (even after stopping to fire) and if the range opened up to 6.7, at which point we lost visual contact with each other, he turned almost fully toward me... for a little bit, before resuming his circling.

Edit: Oh and I started the campaign with the previous hotfix and updated partway through... in the unlikely case this influences the AI behaviour.

Ok thank you very much. Please take notice of general AI behavior in your next battles. The AI may be more evasive than needed in battles that contain TR and we will fix this too.

[Grayknight]

Ok... so there was a bug that made enemy ship clip throu all my torpedoes... they can already spin in place but this was absurd...

Edited December 14, 2021 by Grayknight

[Norbert Sattler]

On a positive note, since the new hotfix I didn't have any of my crew randomly dying of shock or from blocked or ricochet hits despite not having read anything in the changelog about that being fixed for about 20 battles now.

Not sure if it's just a lucky streak or if the problem is really gone now.

[RedParadize]

14 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Ok thank you very much. Please take notice of general AI behavior in your next battles. The AI may be more evasive than needed in battles that contain TR and we will fix this too.

Does that apply in both custom battles and campaign? or is it different?

[o Barão]

New update bug found.

German campaign 1910. Dreadnought and small dreadnought hull.

 

In both hulls the game engine only allow the player to place one barbette for the main guns.

After i placed the 1st barbette, the option becomes greyed and impossible to add another one.

Edited December 14, 2021 by o Barão

[Nick Thomadis]

12 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

On a positive note, since the new hotfix I didn't have any of my crew randomly dying of shock or from blocked or ricochet hits despite not having read anything in the changelog about that being fixed for about 20 battles now.

Not sure if it's just a lucky streak or if the problem is really gone now.

One of the fixes of the UI.

[Nick Thomadis]

Just now, o Barão said:

New update bug found.

German campaign 1910. Dreadnought amd small dreadnought hull.

 

In both hulls the game engine only allow the player to place one barbette for the main guns.

After i placed the 1st barbette, the option becomes greyed and impossible to add another one.

Probably a technology prohibition? Check in the Extra techs (Right tab) how many superimposed barbettes are allowed.