Im back! And I have some thoughts on the current game.

[Ryan21]

Greetings!  After a ten month absence from the real world I am back from my two stints as Bosun on the brigantine Fair Jeanne and the Brig Lady Washington.  I have to say the game has made leaps and bounds, I love how the brig tacks and wears, it really feels close to how Lady behaves, very well done.  Hull speeds are a bit high in general but the game would be far to slow otherwise.  On the whole it strikes a very good balance between reality and gameplay enjoyment.  

 

One thing I noticed with the schooners is that when they are sailing close on the wind from beam reach to close hauled they sail fastest with the booms wung out all the way, in reality when you are sailing on the wind this would spill some of the wind you could be using for drive, so they should be sheeted not completely fore and aft but just off when close hauled, and eased just a little bit more for the 90 degree beam reach.  When you want the booms eased all the way out is on a broad reach or a run.  Also when running, there should be a speed bonus for the booms being eased out on opposite sides, it's called running wing on wing, when running if both the booms are eased out on the same side the mainsail will block the wind from getting to the foresail and you will lose the driving force of the foresail.  

 

Also I want to say the storms are wonderful, but I really am begging you guys to consider that you cannot sail in force 8-9 with topgallants set, and since you seem to only have two basic sea/wind states would it really be that hard to adjust sailing parameters for two weather conditions?  I know you guys cant do topsail reefing because it requires another animation but can you make it so that you have to work with just topsails and courses in the storm sea state?  The ships should be going as fast off the wind in the storm state with tops and courses as they are with full sail in the normal wind state, make it so that you can set topgallants etc, and get a speed boost but make it steadily damage the masts and break them after a short period.  Also there should be a large speed handicap when sailing close hauled in the storm, if you were making 10 knots off the wind you should be making maybe 5 at most into it, in real life that sea state pushes you back something brutal, also make it so that tacking in the storm takes longer so that people are forced to wear ship.

 

Please heed this request devs.

 

By the way did you borrow the Navy Brigs paint sceme from the Lady Washington;)  I love it!

PS.  thank you sooo much for fixing the order of sail setting it was driving me nuts, things look alot more realistic now, with ships tooling around under tops and courses and not topgallants set above furled topsails.

[admin]

Welcome back Captain

[Guest raat]

Welcome back!  Funny, I just went out for a "battle sail" on the Lady Washington a couple weeks ago in Ventura.  It was a fun way to spend an afternoon.  Remember, the 2 librarians? (maybe you don't, but the crew seemed to keep making a big deal over them being librarians, not sure why, but it was funny).  I was the dashing gentlemen accompanying the brunette librarian.

[Ryan21]

Hahaha.  Really!  I don't remember, I have been back in Victoria since the 3rd.  Im usually pretty tunnel vision bound when I'm day sailing, trying to direct crew to the braces etc..

[Guest raat]

Yeah, we spent most of the time on the quarterdeck talking to Captain Johann.  Thanks for the enjoyable afternoon!

[Ryan21]

Your welcome!  Johann is great.  Venture was such a good port to us.

[admin]

Your welcome!  Johann is great.  Venture was such a good port to us.

We need your tips urgently on the brigs.

 

everyone hates them))) you will tell us why and what to fix.

[Destraex]

Admin I think the Brig is what it is. It's just wrong when it comes to almost anything.

 

- A big Target

- With too few guns

- With the slowest manoeverability

- Slow top speed and accelleration

 

So basically it cannot kill big or small ships well compared to anything else. It's the worst ship in game imho.

 

It's just in that category of the worst of every aspect.

It's like the Tug Boat of the fleet. The game does need intermediary ships like this though that are a challenge to sail.

Not every boat can be glamourous. Keep in mind you can still get hits in with it and people are obviously leveling with it ok.

[Guest raat]

Yeah, Brig is fine.  Actually of the 3 new ships, I have the best winning percentage in the NavyBrig.  Probably a coincidence, but I have no issues with it other than the odd delay when you fire.  Is that a bug or a new feature?

[Ryan21]

well, this is interesting, because upon re-entering the game I was most pleased with the brig, if you know how to use manual control she really does tack and wear close to the real thing.  What are your largest concerns as admin?  I know people complain that they are slow and manuever poorly, the reality is that yes a brig with a bluff blow is going to be much slower in general and in stays than a baltimore clipper like the Lynx.  I have however found them to be quite usefull in game, I can very nearly spin her on a dime by properly wearing ship and find she has special maneuvering capabilities that can counter the smaller vessels speed, she also packs much more of a punch than the schooners, I really am finding it hard to find to many major faults here, you cant make them faster, because they simply aren't.  Unless they are a brig with an enormous rig and a fine clipper bow like Niagara, or one of the later 1820's to 1830's brigs that handled quite well compared to there earlier counterparts.  Niagara has a hull speed of 15 knots or therabouts and tacks very quickly, but the current brigs in game have the late 1700's hull shape so I would say their maneuverability is fairly realistic.  Perhaps you should add a little variety to soothe the brig Naysayers, we really have three very similar brigs, that perform largely the same, maybe take out say the generic Navy brig and actually model the Niagara, which is radically different, being quite large for a brig, 198' overall, 30' beam, fine clipper bow, immense rig, etc..  She had 18 32 lber carronades and 2 12 lb long chasers, for a vessel that is twice the length of Lady she tacks like a ferrari, and I think it would be an interesting segway between the brigs and the larger vessels, her biggest handicap is her range with the carronades but she really was the USS Constitution of sloops of war.  The ship plans are readily available, in fact I have a full set of them at my house.  She also sails closer and faster on the wind than the shorter bluff bowed brigs, I was on the tiller and watched her point 48 degrees on the anemometer with full topsails, not luffing, and we were making 8.5-9 knots in a 20 knot breeze, on the older vessels it's hard to get them to point higher than 65-60.

 

She is slightly longer than the Surprise, but with much less free board and limited long range capability with her armament, she was meant to run in at light speed and hammer up close.

http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-009a-5cba-99e5/u-s-brig-niagara-duluth-united-states+1152_12796342478-tpfil02aw-16428.jpg

Model her nicely, get rid of the Navy Brig, keep the regular brig and snow, and she would bridge the gap.

 

I think players would love to use a very unusual vessel like this, also I believe this game should encourage and promote vessels that were historically significant, especially those that we have replica's of, this game could get people interested in really sailing these ships!

[Wetworth]

Yes yes! Play up the Niagara! We need more Niagara.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Yeah, Brig is fine.  Actually of the 3 new ships, I have the best winning percentage in the NavyBrig.  Probably a coincidence, but I have no issues with it other than the odd delay when you fire.  Is that a bug or a new feature?

 

Admin says it's a result of a 3 second fuse.  If you feel it is too long or short, please respond in the Patch thread in Sea Trials with what you think it should be.  

 

With regards to the ship itself - I found that it handles pretty crisply in a tack when manual sails are used correctly, but then I'm used to Trincomalee.  8 knots on a beam reach isn't bad for that type of ship.

[ulysse77]

I don't have much issue with the brig in itself, but it seem to me that he took me a lot more battle to upgrade the first time, im up to constitution and i was able to unlock a new ship after pretty much 15-20 battle, which seem right... Brig took me 32 battle.... maybe the damage required is a bit steep compare to what she can deliver...

[Brigand]

Nice to see you back Ryan!

 

I think the Niagara should not be included in the game. The lineup of ships is etching ever closer to the age of the clippers while there is a considerable demand for the earlier 17th century ships (based on looks).

So instead of giving the 'we want more guns, faster ships, etc' demands what they want, the crowd should realise that while historic ships are not modern racing yachts, they can be really effectively manoeuvred, if you take the time to learn how.

 

This last part is exactly what give a game long term interesting gameplay, the need to actually invest some time to learn and play it effectively.

 

~Brigand

[5KnuckleChuckle]

Nice to see you back Ryan!

 

I think the Niagara should not be included in the game. The lineup of ships is etching ever closer to the age of the clippers while there is a considerable demand for the earlier 17th century ships (based on looks).

So instead of giving the 'we want more guns, faster ships, etc' demands what they want, the crowd should realise that while historic ships are not modern racing yachts, they can be really effectively manoeuvred, if you take the time to learn how.

 

This last part is exactly what give a game long term interesting gameplay, the need to actually invest some time to learn and play it effectively.

 

~Brigand

 

Just to add to this, you aren't going to please everyone and if you try the game will fall apart. Keep it as real as possible and if some people don't like it...oh well. I'm sure they will get past the odd ship they don't like etc. Also, I have seen some vids of the brig being sailed by those who can use manual sail and knew how to sail that ship. It was quite effective.

[Rudi Starnberg]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the implementation of the brig, the problem is it's a pretty obsolete design when up against ships that are mostly late 18th century or even early 19th. This isn't a bad thing in my opinion, and hopefully once the number of ships in the game is expanded it will gain itself a valid niche matched against more contemporary designs.

 

At the very least it is a good way to teach/encourage people people to start using manual skipper for maneuvering, since on auto skipper it handles turns like a slug, but using your sails to full potential you can be just about the most maneuverable vessel in the game. Still not going to be fast obviously, but that's just what brigs were, so I don't think that should really be changed. Maybe a little bit more armour to compensate for the massive increase in size relative to schooners and cutters.

 

One other idea I rather like but which might be unpopular is to take 6lbers away from the schooners, if schooners could only use 4lbers that would give the brig a real purpose. The cutter should probably keep its 6plbers with its much greater beam and heavier build, but that would mean people have a choice between speed and low target profile in the schooners or going for greater fire power but slower and much larger profile with the brigs, and in my opinion the more tradeoffs you offer players the more interesting the game becomes.

[Brigand]

One other idea I rather like but which might be unpopular is to take 6lbers away from the schooners, if schooners could only use 4lbers that would give the brig a real purpose. The cutter should probably keep its 6plbers with its much greater beam and heavier build, but that would mean people have a choice between speed and low target profile in the schooners or going for greater fire power but slower and much larger profile with the brigs, and in my opinion the more tradeoffs you offer players the more interesting the game becomes.

 

This could be a very good idea. I'm not sure on the actual historic limits, but it the historic Lynx at least used carronades to overcome the limited broadside weight she would have had when equipped with regular cannons.

 

The change you propose change may well result in players making the same choice as they did back in the days of sail, which -in my opinion- should be seen as a good thing to achieve in the game.

 

~Brigand

[Ryan21]

Some schooners would have been able to carry six pounders, schooners of the period varied greatly in size, and many of them as stated used fairly heavy carronades for maximum punch.  As a merchant brig the original Lady Washington of 210 tons carried two 6 pounder long guns and between 6 and 8 1 pounder swivels, the six pounder is fairly hefty but could still be carried by smaller vessels, the 9 and 12 pounders however are a huge jump in size and weight.

[Ryan21]

The brig already has significantly more firepower than the schooners, get a copy of seamanship in the age of sail, learn about Center of lateral resistance and factors affecting rotation and about how to properly manuever a square rigger and then go back to the game, I am currently quite satisfied with the brig.  In fact I wouldn't even complain about the current inertia, I have had no problem slowing the brig at the opportune moment and turning right under opponents sterns, often with my jiboom crossing their quarterdeck and delivering a broadside.

[Rudi Starnberg]

Properly handled the brig is extremely maneuverable yes, but I have to disagree on the firepower front. Compared to the privateer it has 2 or 3 extra guns per side, and this is just not worth the trade off of being a huge target. At ranges much beyond 100 yards or so, the profile a schooner presents to you is just so low it's very very hard to hit it consistently, especially if the captain is jinking it around. Conversely a drunken one eyed pirate would have no troubles hitting a brig at any range within his cannons reach.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

Greetings!  After a ten month absence from the real world I am back from my two stints as Bosun on the brigantine Fair Jeanne and the Brig Lady Washington.  I have to say the game has made leaps and bounds, I love how the brig tacks and wears, it really feels close to how Lady behaves, very well done.  Hull speeds are a bit high in general but the game would be far to slow otherwise.  On the whole it strikes a very good balance between reality and gameplay enjoyment.  

 

One thing I noticed with the schooners is that when they are sailing close on the wind from beam reach to close hauled they sail fastest with the booms wung out all the way, in reality when you are sailing on the wind this would spill some of the wind you could be using for drive, so they should be sheeted not completely fore and aft but just off when close hauled, and eased just a little bit more for the 90 degree beam reach.  When you want the booms eased all the way out is on a broad reach or a run.  Also when running, there should be a speed bonus for the booms being eased out on opposite sides, it's called running wing on wing, when running if both the booms are eased out on the same side the mainsail will block the wind from getting to the foresail and you will lose the driving force of the foresail.  

 

Also I want to say the storms are wonderful, but I really am begging you guys to consider that you cannot sail in force 8-9 with topgallants set, and since you seem to only have two basic sea/wind states would it really be that hard to adjust sailing parameters for two weather conditions?  I know you guys cant do topsail reefing because it requires another animation but can you make it so that you have to work with just topsails and courses in the storm sea state?  The ships should be going as fast off the wind in the storm state with tops and courses as they are with full sail in the normal wind state, make it so that you can set topgallants etc, and get a speed boost but make it steadily damage the masts and break them after a short period.  Also there should be a large speed handicap when sailing close hauled in the storm, if you were making 10 knots off the wind you should be making maybe 5 at most into it, in real life that sea state pushes you back something brutal, also make it so that tacking in the storm takes longer so that people are forced to wear ship.

 

Please heed this request devs.

 

By the way did you borrow the Navy Brigs paint sceme from the Lady Washington;)  I love it!

PS.  thank you sooo much for fixing the order of sail setting it was driving me nuts, things look alot more realistic now, with ships tooling around under tops and courses and not topgallants set above furled topsails.

Like your post and share your opinions. On the other hand. This storm level... Its not even close to a storm anyway. Thats rough sea at most.

But i would also like the possibility to haul tight topgallants to prevent damage on masts if windspeeds are to fast

[maturin]

Uh, heck yes, it's a storm. Put tour camera at deck level and see what it looks like from there.

Bearing in mind that videogames, like cameras, shrink waves by four times. Seas that would have you crapping your pants in person look like ripples on-screen.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

Uh, heck yes, it's a storm. Put tour camera at deck level and see what it looks like from there.

Bearing in mind that videogames, like cameras, shrink waves by four times. Seas that would have you crapping your pants in person look like ripples on-screen.

Ive been in such conditions once in a shooner over the atlantic. And by then i asked the captain. This is storm now! Isnt it ? He just said, no this is rough see.

The waves were huge, especially when in the trough of a wave. There was water in the air but not all from rain. Thousand liter of water spilled on the deck when the bug crashed in to a wave. Visibility was about 100m (hard to tell). And this was just rough see... I cant imagin the horror when in middle of a storm...

But your right with the shrinking waves on pictures. I made photographs of this event, and i was deeply disappointed with the result. The waves actually didnt looked as close as big as they were in real life...

In a storm, ships are sinking. You wont get in a storm today its dangerous even for modern ships. Ive seen a ship in distress at see because of a storm. Fortunately

our ship was immovable entangled in the port by then. They had bad luck and lost their ship while trying to reach the safe port. Both, it was a couple, survived this tragedy.

This is not a critic about the game. I like the "storm level" verry much. And they made the big waves great. But its not a storm in its pure power

But as OP sayed you never could clap on all the sails even in such conditions without fearing to lose masts or at least damaging the rig...

[-KM-]

Maybe an easy fix is just lower the damage needed to unlock the next ship on the brig. The frustration with the brig as faar as i remember were that you did as much damage in a lynx (all thought using carronades.. but still) as in the brig on an average. If people just had to play it a bit less before moving on to navy brig and snow they would get a lot less frustrated with it.

[akd]

We need your tips urgently on the brigs.

 

everyone hates them))) you will tell us why and what to fix.

 

You are far too sensitive to whining.   People just want a cutter with a brig's armament and will whine and whine and whine until they get it.

 

I like the Brig.  I think she serves her role and form well.  However, perhaps she could be allowed to carry larger carronades (probably max 24pdr) on her broadside and small long guns (4pd max?) in the chase ports?  AFAIK, a 24lb carronade weighed around the same as a 6lb cannon, took up less space and required the same (or maybe even less) crew.

 

I think the schooners should be allowed to overarm with 6pdrs, but this circles back to the point that the penalty for overarming should be more than just the effects of the incremental increase in the ship's overall weight.