PowderMonkey Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hello, i have personally have been demasted on many occasions and have in turn demasted others this is a viable tactic and in this time frame was common place. Id like to ask all players to take a step back and not be frustrated when you are demasted this is a testing phase after all and things can be changed! But demasting will ALWAYS be here so i would suggest everyone get used to it and begin to adapt, being frustrated and screaming at poeple to fix an issue that is on essence a gameplay feature isnt exactly the best way to fix it. Last night me and some squadron mates used a tactic against a enemy victory, this was to poor all are broadsides into hes sails to burn his repairs, after around 4 broadsides from me, 3 from a victory, and 4 from a constitution we took down all 3 (they fell in a minute of each other) this isnt broken because think of it this way! Me in a bellona have a total of 39 cannons on that side, victory around 50, and constitution 25, if you times that by the amount of broadsides we shot that is a equation like this: 39x4 50x3 25x4 This equals to a combined 410 cannon balls were used to take down 3 masts, and the saying fits throw enough mud at a wall and itll stick. So in essence we should all take a step back and look at the amount of fire needed to take down masts and see if it is proportionate, i think with 410 cannon balls 3 masts should fall, but thats cause of the sheer number of iron comeing for those sails. But thats just my opinion please comment and bring your experiance to bear! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It's not broken by any means. It's auctually quite realistic as a lot of fights in the age of sail featured ships immobile, masts down, tons of boardings, very rarely did ships just sail exchanging broadsides, usually a mast goes down one boat pounds the other or boards and it's over. See the constitution vs Java and vs Guerriere. Sadly however the game doesn't have all the little details such as good boardings, cool immobilization, musket fire, and currently offers no incentive to board the enemy ship. And no incentive to surrender, which many ships did when they were demasted and surrounded or had a ship in raking position. On a side note if you had shot from the front or rear you can demasted a ship of 1 or 2 masts usually in a 1st rate. Not sure if you shot from the side or front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ya surrendering needs to be factored in, which it can't be right now. Boarding needs to be made really fun, and skillful, our placeholder boarding is not fun of course. Being de masted is never going to be fun... I think once some of those other factors get fleshed out, it will at least be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Musashi Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The frequency of demasting based on numbers of broadsides is sufficiently good to devalue chain shot...it seems to me. Anyone else feel this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yes, but that's something of a good thing. Chainshot was a specialty item, and French fleets would spend a lot more time flinging normal roundshot into rigging. Chainshot definitely has its uses, though. I often call for the smaller ships in an engagement to hit enemy SOLs with chain. It's a lot more reliable as a means of slowing (rather than disabling) the enemy, and you can be effective even without dozens of heavy guns. Good close-range chaser shot, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i got a question abpout demasting.. are chains strong enough to demast? or do i have to use ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i would say ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 mast snipping was in real life pure lottery. Fact, that we have here constitution, which is able to solo demast 1-st rate to zero its nonsence. like 3 jackpots row. And if one constitution is able to do this, then group of ships will demast 1-st rate for 1-2 broadside unload. Then they going windward and start killing. To avoid this second one group must do same thing - demasting. At the end both group should do this and its WRONG, since demasting goes to permanent game element. I already had fights with that, when all ships from both sides shooting masts. I wonder why, because it isn't OP? btw TS calculating of 410 balls its shame shit, because demast effectiveness strongly depends from shooting angle. leeward ships naturally going to shorten distance, which makes them able to reach theyr windward target, but they must sail to them and it means they show his front. Personally me on my constitution got in one fight two victorys demastet 6 times with aiming shots. Wake up, people. Chainshot definitely has its uses, though. I often call for the smaller ships in an engagement to hit enemy SOLs with chain. It's a lot more reliable as a means of slowing (rather than disabling) the enemy, and you can be effective even without dozens of heavy guns. Good close-range chaser shot, too. Chain isn't effective. It have fall of effectiveness with time, and do nothing at the end. Wasted time. No talking about B button even. 60% sails is thing that SOL can take, but 2-3 masts missing is thing, that makes her useless floating shit piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 btw TS calculating of 410 balls its shame shit, because demast effectiveness strongly depends from shooting angle. leeward ships naturally going to shorten distance, which makes them able to reach theyr windward target, but they must sail to them and it means they show his front. Personally me on my constitution got in one fight two victorys demastet 6 times with aiming shots. Wake up, people. Chain isn't effective. It have fall of effectiveness with time, and do nothing at the end. Wasted time. No talking about B button even. 60% sails is thing that SOL can take, but 2-3 masts missing is thing, that makes her useless floating shit piece. i dont really see in your argue why Thecalculating is shit .... yes leeward ships will close in but waht does it have to to with the change of demasting? i donmt really see your point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Chain is extremely effective in the right circumstances. 2 Surprises can tear a Constitution's sails up that is leading a charge so that the rest of the frigate line can focus fire on hulls and take ships out. We just did this a little bit ago. Coni was down to 50% sails before he got in close and was pretty well beat up. Didn't last that long after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i dont really see in your argue why Thecalculating is shit .... yes leeward ships will close in but waht does it have to to with the change of demasting? i donmt really see your point... Actually it isn't hard to understand why it works better when ship goes with some angle to your course, than if it goes parallel. Also isn't hard to understand that your aiming shot had triple chances to hit mast, when ship goes on you. Reason why is same in both cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Actually it isn't hard to understand why it works better when ship goes with some angle to your course, than if it goes parallel. Also isn't hard to understand that your aiming shot had triple chances to hit mast, when ship goes on you. Reason why is same in both cases. hmm.. if a ship comes towards you, the masts will be closer togehter from your perspective aka easier to hit, i agree, but the width of your broadside will remain the same. Since you can't control the aim of a single cannon significantly i doubt taht the chance of hiting the mast will increase much due the limited aiming of the cannons... shall i paint i down for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 wrong. Cone of balls trajectory is reversal to that you painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 wrong. Cone of balls trajectory is reversal to that you painted. only if you coud aim sidewards with the cannons, wich you can't! At least not enough to make a big difference. i doubt you can aim the tight with a broadsie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 dunno why it crossed with red lines, since its correct picture. closer masts will mean higher chances to hit, as you said before. Your left and right cannons gain benefits from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderMonkey Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Reki, you misunderstand he was perpendicular to me and my squadmates so yes it took that may balls to take out his mast and if you havent noticed fireing a 32 pound iron ball at high velocity even is hit just once on a mast dead center could weaken it enough to bring it down solely on wind strain, you have to remember this isnt going to be a game of who can aim for the waterline the most and fire faster. simple fact is with no moral, no ammo, and no ability to surrender this will keep happening, upon full release with these features including, demasting will be much more difficult to pull off ESPECIALLY if your smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Reki, you misunderstand he was perpendicular to me and my squadmates so yes it took that may balls to take out his mast and if you havent noticed fireing a 32 pound iron ball at high velocity even is hit just once on a mast dead center could weaken it enough to bring it down solely on wind strain, you have to remember this isnt going to be a game of who can aim for the waterline the most and fire faster. simple fact is with no moral, no ammo, and no ability to surrender this will keep happening, upon full release with these features including, demasting will be much more difficult to pull off ESPECIALLY if your smart. I talk about chances and calculating it. Not any deal with what the hell position he was to you, and no talking about unreleased yet game build, so nothing to misunerstand here. I try to say here, that mast sniping have no counter, except same mast sniping. Yes it happens, when opponent team break your mast but don't know what they should do after this. But answer is simple - kite. You may chose to stick with your team and be like fort there without masts and with all 3 repairs saved, but from moment enemy team start to move windward you'r lose. In other case you will spend repairs for mast much more faster, than if they had shooting your hull. Demast means repair burn, repair burn means killing. Faster repair spend means faster killing. Simple as hell. If you won't play that game with mast sniping, you will be kited to the death. slow ship is bad ship. If your team sails without you, they got lack of firepower very soon and loose. If they stick with you, enemy will kite you from save range. No exit from this except same acting and no choices to do at all. It is madness to let gameplay transform into this. I do it, i know it, i got more damage on my constitution with mast sniping than first rates in our team. It is clearly unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghroznak Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ya surrendering needs to be factored in, which it can't be right now. Boarding needs to be made really fun, and skillful, our placeholder boarding is not fun of course. Being de masted is never going to be fun... I think once some of those other factors get fleshed out, it will at least be interesting Of course it's not fun. Being demasted means you quickly become a sitting duck, unable to bring guns to bear or outrun and/or outmaneuver your opponent. Without masts you are nothing but a floating barrel. This is also why demasted ships would surrender, otherwise they would simply be shot to splinters. Demasting is a good feature. It sucks, yes, but it is realistic. It's also more so about luck (or bad luck, depending) than actual skill or grief tactics. As was said by OP, they spent 410 shots to take out the masts. That is ALOT of cannonballs and not many will be shooting that many cannonballs at a target in the hopes of a lucky mast hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Posted just earlier today in the ship painting thread, but maybe better here? Seems like reality to me, if the painter got his news straight and this isn't just post-battle propaganda. He did serve in the RN though... Only started playing this weekend, and have demasted one cutter thus far in PvP light. Can different sections of the masts come down, or is it all or nothing? Thomas Buttersworth Senior This painting depicts the battered combined fleets of the French and Spanish, post the Battle of Trafalgar, making for the safety of Cadiz harbour in spain, with only ten of the original combined fleet of thirty-three ships remaining. These ships comprised the French ships Pluton, Heros, Algeciras, Neptune and Argonaute, and the Spanish vessels Principe de Asturias, Santa Ana, San Leandro, San Justo and Montanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zehtuka Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Posted just today in the ship painting thread, but maybe better here? Seems like reality to me, if the painter got his news straight and this isn't just post-battle propaganda. He did serve in the RN though... Thomas Buttersworth Senior This painting depicts the battered combined fleets of the French and Spanish, post the Battle of Trafalgar, making for the safety of Cadiz harbour in spain, with only ten of the original combined fleet of thirty-three ships remaining. These ships comprised the French ships Pluton, Heros, Algeciras, Neptune and Argonaute, and the Spanish vessels Principe de Asturias, Santa Ana, San Leandro, San Justo and Montanes. An English painting, what do you expect? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Demasting is a good feature. It sucks, yes, but it is realistic. It's also more so about luck (or bad luck, depending) than actual skill or grief tactics. As was said by OP, they spent 410 shots to take out the masts. That is ALOT of cannonballs and not many will be shooting that many cannonballs at a target in the hopes of a lucky mast hit. Again. this calculation is wrong. Ships can be spreaded on battlefield, then you says one or two frigates, which is on good position, focus rate-ship masts. They have no damage on his hull, but after 5 minutes he will lose 1-2 masts and will spend (in most cases) 1 repair. There is no way, that those two frigates can remove repair from rate ship so fast, like in demasting way. Santissima can make it with 2-3 broadsides on rate ship bellona or victory. Once i took one mast from another ST just with one single broadside on his front with doubles. Weak a go we had fight with 2 bellonas versus our team. Around 7 vs 7. I was on my constitution and doing demast (only me). Both bellonas was without masts soon. After fight theyr commander said, that on start of fight being leeward they should get closer to us and they know it, but they afraid to do that because of my constitution =\ You think its normal? And what TS purpose is for this: But demasting will ALWAYS be here so i would suggest everyone get used to it Brilliant. If you see exploit, just make everyone get use to it. Solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 An English painting, what do you expect? Prove that this isn't the outcome of the battle. I'll stand corrected, or really, Buttersworth will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Again. this calculation is wrong. Ships can be spreaded on battlefield, then you says one or two frigates, which is on good position, focus rate-ship masts. They have no damage on his hull, but after 5 minutes he will lose 1-2 masts and will spend (in most cases) 1 repair. There is no way, that those two frigates can remove repair from rate ship so fast, like in demasting way. Santissima can make it with 2-3 broadsides on rate ship bellona or victory. Once i took one mast from another ST just with one single broadside on his front with doubles. Weak a go we had fight with 2 bellonas versus our team. Around 7 vs 7. I was on my constitution and doing demast (only me). Both bellonas was without masts soon. After fight theyr commander said, that on start of fight being leeward they should get closer to us and they know it, but they afraid to do that because of my constitution =\ You think its normal? And what TS purpose is for this: Brilliant. If you see exploit, just make everyone get use to it. Solution. sooo watts your suggestion then? No more demast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebsif Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Demasting isnt an exploit its a tactic. Btw good luck catching ships that only want to flee in open world with current mechanics. there won be as many SOLs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marecek05 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I agree, demasting is a tactic. It's just that people are not used to it. I was in a battle where enemy fleet decided to immeadiatly close the distance. My fleet formed the curved line and targeted the leading ship masts. After the leading ship (santissima) was demasted, the rest of her fleet just went past her, closed the distance and got slaughtered by the rest of our fleet, without their heavy ship to help. The correct behaviour would have been to keep defensive stations near her and keep pounding at us. I have never seen a ship to get sunk by losing masts. Also nice video by RAMJB who used correct tactics in such a case. (this is getting to be a quite common sentence by now) :-D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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