Captures/Surrenders Should Count as Kills

[Ruuster_IV]

There is one thing that gives me cringes every-time I go commerce raiding, or even just get into a battle with a warship. The problem is that is is very counterproductive to capture a ship. Because it doesn't count as a kill! You don't get kill points for capturing a ship! This makes it so that it is more profitable to scuttle a ship than take it and sell it for prize money. Historically sailors and captains tried to capture every ship they could and send it back for prize money. But in NA for some reason sinking a ship is worth more. I think the game would be 100% better if a boarding win counted as a kill. Or a surrender counted too. But I am not saying that if you board someone then scuttle their ship it should count as two kills.

[Farrago]

Totally agree. Unfortunately it would be exploitable to farming of alts. I’d suggest that if you capture a ship by boarding or surrender, you get the “kill” after returning it and selling it to a friendly port. In fact, IMO this should be the most highly rewarded course of action.

[Hethwill]

A surrender will count as a kill when you sink the enemy ship.

Simple.

Want the kill or want the ship ? Choices...

[Farrago]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

A surrender will count as a kill when you sink the enemy ship.

Simple.

Want the kill or want the ship ? Choices...

Yes. That is the system we have now. But you don’t agree that it would be more in line with the period and make more sense if the biggest reward for a captain was returning a prize to the admiralty? Our system of combat medals and missions skews this away from logical outcome.

Perhaps now that we have fractional kills for assists, a capture and return to port could count as .25 kill?

[Angus MacDuff]

14 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

A surrender will count as a kill when you sink the enemy ship.

Simple.

Want the kill or want the ship ? Choices...

This is the way it's always been and I can certainly live with it, but the OP is correct.  A capture takes the ship out as much as sinking it does.  With the exploits already available for getting rid of trash ships, we shouldn't be concerned about that.  There is always someone who will "game" the system.  Capture should give the same rewards as sinking, as it removes a ship from the enemy's inventory.

[Hethwill]

Doesn't remove the ship from the world. That's what sinking is about.

 

[Kejsaren]

15 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Doesn't remove the ship from the world. That's what sinking is about.

 

Pretty sure the idea is removing it from the hands of the enemy. Also pretty sure any admirality would prefer having another ship in their fleet instead of at the bottom of the ocean.

 

Just change description to sink or capture. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by de Veenboer

[Hethwill]

The idea is indeed to reduce enemy capability, so you either sink it or capture it.

Sinking it gives you the Kill. You gain "reward" towards the PvP mission and reduce enemy by 1 ship.

Capturing it gives you the ship. And reduce enemy by 1 ship.

Choices.

[Papillon]

Farrago is right about the farming though.  Example, with 3 players being a main and 2 alts:

P1 caps ship --> sells low / trades cheap to P2

P3 caps ship from P2 --> sells/trades back to P1

P2 caps ship from P1 --> sells/trades back to P3

P1 caps ship from P3 --> sells/trades back to P2        and on and on....

And if the cap becomes kill rewards then they farm.  No one shows up on the leaderboard because no one is sunk, and there are effectively 3 players to hide the back and forth, so it's never noticed or investigated.  Eternal farming with no consequence, and can be done quickly.

I wouldn't do that because I don't use alts; just saying what the cheaters will do with your suggestion.

 

[Kejsaren]

35 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

The idea is indeed to reduce enemy capability, so you either sink it or capture it.

Sinking it gives you the Kill. You gain "reward" towards the PvP mission and reduce enemy by 1 ship.

 Capturing it gives you the ship. And reduce enemy by 1 ship.

Choices.

What's wrong with capturing the ship and gain reward towards mission?.

Capturing a ship is not going to be the choice every time, since you have to sail it back to a friendly port, plus.. capturing a ship tends to be more of a hassle then just straight out sinking it.

Unless you are boarding specced with muskets. 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by de Veenboer

[Liq]

16 minutes ago, de Veenboer said:

What's wrong with capturing the ship and gain reward towards mission?.

Possible exploits

I think its fine as it is. When I cap a nice teak wo ship with some decent upgrades id value that over sinking it. And keep it.

[FKL 1982]

It's very simple, the captured ship IS the reward, why do people have so much trouble grasping that concept?

[Kejsaren]

10 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

It's very simple, the captured ship IS the reward, why do people have so much trouble grasping that concept?

I don't have trouble grasping that concept. And don't think OP has any trouble with that either.

 

Capturing a ship, especially in pvp is usually way more complicated then just sinking it. Unless skill gap between the two too wide of course.

So being rewarded with the "kill" aswell as the ship is not unreasonable, on the contrary more realistic.

 

Now, which part about all this do you not grasp?.

 

P.S

As Liq mentioned, possible exploits,... I'll buy that, .. and I am fine the way things are too. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by de Veenboer

[FKL 1982]

22 minutes ago, de Veenboer said:

I don't have trouble grasping that concept. And don't think OP has any trouble with that either.

 

Capturing a ship, especially in pvp is usually way more complicated then than just sinking it. Unless skill gap between the two too wide of course.

So being rewarded with the "kill" aswell as the ship is not unreasonable, on the contrary more realistic.

 

Now, which part about all this do you not grasp?.

 

P.S

As Liq mentioned, possible exploits,... I'll buy that, .. and I am fine the way things are too. 

I appear to have offended you so I will try to talk to you like a four year old so that your feelings are not hurt any further. 

First of all, for those without any real skill, boarding is a far easier way to win battles. Just stick muskets and Marines on your ship and then push your opponent into the wind and board

Secondly boarding is very common amongst gankers, have 3 or 4 ships chaining a single ship down and then push and board. We see just as many if not MORE "boarded and sank" in combat news than we do "sank". 

Lastly if the ship is worthy of being kept then it must clearly be a good prize, the very fact that you want to keep it implies it is a good prize. If the ship is not any good, you can just hit the sink button and you get the reward. Either way you get rewarded.

This is a game, NOT a history documentary

Edited May 23, 2019 by H982 FKL

[Kejsaren]

47 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

I appear to have offended you so I will try to talk to you like a four year old so that your feelings are not hurt any further. 

The only one offended here seems to be you, but go ahead.

47 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

First of all, for those without any real skill, boarding is a far easier way to win battles. Just stick muskets and Marines on your ship and then push your opponent into the wind and board

In pvp avoiding boarding is far easier then getting boarded. And against AI you need to be boarding fit with muskets for it to be faster then a straight sink, I agree.

47 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

Secondly boarding is very common amongst gankers, have 3 or 4 ships chaining a single ship down and then push and board. We see just as many if not MORE "boarded and sank" in combat news than we do "sank". 

This is irrelevant. And I have previously stated that I think reward system should scale the challenge (thus ganking should be much less rewarding).

47 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

Lastly if the ship is worthy of being kept then it must clearly be a good prize, the very fact that you want to keep it implies it is a good prize. If the ship is not any good, you can just hit the sink button and you get the reward. Either way you get rewarded.

Yes either way we get rewarded. Some of us just don't see a problem with capturing a ship will count as a kill in regards to missions. 

47 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

This is a game, NOT a history documentary

Thanks for clearing that out for me, I was confused for awhile.

Edited May 23, 2019 by de Veenboer

[FKL 1982]

11 hours ago, de Veenboer said:

 

Yes either way we get rewarded. Some of us just don't see a problem with capturing a ship will count as a kill in regards to missions. 

.

Because human beings in general are terrible and many people would exploit the shit out of it. It's the reason we no longer get decent rewards for killing individual player ships.

Edited May 24, 2019 by H982 FKL

[Ruuster_IV]

So you guys are all making great points. I can certainly live with how the game is now because I LOVE Naval Action. But to be honest this triggers me a lot.

On 5/23/2019 at 12:37 PM, H982 FKL said:

This is a game, NOT a history documentary

This game is supposed to be an age-of-sail, history, simulator type game. That is why I love it. Besides the farming thing Papillon stated and displayed (and quite well at that) I do not see the argument against this and i hope I will understand better.