Empty sea

[Crimson Sunrise]

6 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

There's only one way to combat the use of alts, and that's to give a single player the power that multiple alts have.

Instead of locking down the number of buildings/outposts to a fixed number, make it expandable indefinitely at an increasing cost. I know it feels good to have people buy multiple copies of the game but alts are a plague and shouldn't be looked neutrally on.

still would not combat the alt problem tho u'd just be giving alts the exact same power as the single players, multiple buildings with what labor hours.

the real problem with alts is u really cants say that they are alts of another player they could be a family member or a friend over at ur place playing on their own account easy to have the same ip for up to 4 installments of a game. so tell me who is an alt and who is an original player. untill u can figure that one out there is no difference between players and alts of players on this game.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Crimson Sunrise

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

still would not combat the alt problem tho u'd just be giving alts the exact same power as the single players, multiple buildings with what labor hours

well there'd be less reason to purchase multiple accounts when you can keep it all on your main. Alts aren't something that's just gonna go away, there will always be alts, but doing what you can to make alting as unappealing as possible is the most responsible thing to do and will likely benefit the life of the game in the long run.

[Crimson Sunrise]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

well there'd be less reason to purchase multiple accounts when you can keep it all on your main. Alts aren't something that's just gonna go away, there will always be alts, but doing what you can to make alting as unappealing as possible is the most responsible thing to do and will likely benefit the life of the game in the long run.

there would be more incentive to have multiple account u now have more accounts to produce more material or ships at a faster rate all over the map,  

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

there would be more incentive to have multiple account u now have more accounts to produce more material or ships at a faster rate all over the map,  

material which still costs money which if you have all your money, production, and WH and docks on your main why would you alt for that? It's more easily managed through one account that way.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Crimson Sunrise]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

material which still costs money which if you have all your money, production, and WH and docks on your main why would you alt for that? It's more easily managed through one account that way.

because labor hours mate, yes more expensive but u still have access to other nations closed ports

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

because labor hours mate, yes more expensive but u still have access to other nations closed ports

Labor hours are easily replaced with a timer. I remember devs stating a while back that they were thinking about doing timer instead but decided on LH but no reason we couldn't do timer, which IMO is better because you can base it around a crafting skill and not how much DB you have to buy LH from admiralty.

[Crimson Sunrise]

30 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Labor hours are easily replaced with a timer. I remember devs stating a while back that they were thinking about doing timer instead but decided on LH but no reason we couldn't do timer, which IMO is better because you can base it around a crafting skill and not how much DB you have to buy LH from admiralty.

more accounts = more ships more storage more resources more reals more dubloons in reality what u can get on a main u can get on a alt

 

its why most games dont allow u to get everything on 1 account it doesnt sell well that way if they make u get more accounts its more copies they sell the more they make

Edited December 11, 2018 by Crimson Sunrise

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

more accounts = more ships more storage more resources more reals more dubloons in reality what u can get on a main u can get on a alt

 

its why most games dont allow u to get everything on 1 account it doesnt sell well that way if they make u get more accounts its more copies they sell the more they make

What games are you talking about? Most MMO's I've played let you bank items with no limit.

[Crimson Sunrise]

3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

What games are you talking about? Most MMO's I've played let you bank items with no limit.

just naming the large mmo's WoW, STO, SWTOR, these 3 dont have unlimited storage, and many people make multiple accounts, same with Uncharted Waters Online,  plenty of high end games in the MMO bracket that dont have unlimited storage on any one character or account

 

this is not even touching on the free to play mmo's where that number is quite large on games that dont have unlimited storage

Edited December 11, 2018 by Crimson Sunrise

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

just naming the large mmo's WoW, STO, SWTOR, these 3 dont have unlimited storage, and many people make multiple accounts, same with Uncharted Waters Online,  plenty of high end games in the MMO bracket that dont have unlimited storage on any one character or account

Runescape, E.V.E. All I have but those two have stood the test of time as 2/3rds of the 3 pillars of MMO.

[Crimson Sunrise]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

Runescape, E.V.E. All I have but those two have stood the test of time as 2/3rds of the 3 pillars of MMO.

so u have only 2 examples

[Slim McSauce]

7 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

so u have only 2 examples

yes but those 2 examples have stood the test of time.

[Fletch]

The problem with this game is everyone wants and expects pvp on their terms, and dose not like it when its on someone else's.

When I read on here a well known pvpr complaining about people running from him yet the same guy used a 15 knot endy to run from every single fight he thought he couldn't win it makes me laugh. Players don't exist to satisfy the needs of others like cattle in a slaughter house,  why should it always be on your terms and not theirs this is what I don't get.  People are more than happy to gank others with numbers but  often cry foul when its them on the receiving end.

When people say they are seeking pvp , they are  looking for a fight on their terms on their preferred odds with their preferred outcome of the battle. Anything else isn't pvp because its not what they personally wanted.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Fletch67

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Fletch67 said:

The problem with this game is everyone wants and expects pvp on their terms, and dose not like it when its on someone else's.

When I read one here a well known pvpr complaining about people running from him yet the same guy used a 15 knot endy to run from every single fight he thought he couldn't win it makes me laugh. Players don't exist to satisfy the needs of others like cattle in a slaughter house,  why should it always be on your terms and not theirs this is what I don't get.  People are more than happy to gank others with numbers but  often cry foul when its them on the receiving end.

When people say they are seeking pvp what  many  really seem to be,  is looking for a fight on their terms on their preferred odds with their preferred outcome of the battle. Anything else isn't pvp because its not what they personally wanted.

Because there's no general expectation of a battle. 80% of the time a fight consist of one side perpetually running from the other which you can blame on gank meta and lack of structured ROE.

[Crimson Sunrise]

the real problem is lack of players and the new battle timer, whats the point of fighting if u know ur going to loose if the chaser keeps chasing why stop running

[Fletch]

15 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Because there's no general expectation of a battle. 80% of the time a fight consist of one side perpetually running from the other which you can blame on gank meta and lack of structured ROE.

That's my point they run and don't take the fight because its not on their terms, yet cry when its reversed and people run from them when the fight is on their terms. Hence everyone wants to fight when they choose and not anyone else.  One side will always have an advantage if you want pvp you will have to take some at a disadvantage or you will have to be a lot more patient. Its open world warfare not some pre arranged football brawl. People seem to  expect fair winnable pvp battles on a silver plate and I cant see that happening and no point moaning about it

[Slim McSauce]

3 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

That's my point they run and don't take the fight because its not on their terms, yet cry when its reversed and people run from them when the fight is on their terms. Hence everyone wants to fight when they choose and not anyone else.  One side will always have an advantage if you want pvp you will have to take some at a disadvantage or you will have to be a lot more patient. Its open world warfare not some pre arranged football brawl. People seem to  expect fair winnable pvp battles on a silver plate and I cant see that happening and no point moaning about it

Well lets look at what factors play into people running all the time? We have ganks so we can mark that off. A good pvp ship is built around being able to flee multiple attacking with no odds of victory (futile battles)

ROE adjusting would remedy this inbalance so ships can be made more focused for combat.
If ROE was adjusted it would also allow the limitation of repairs, which has deep effects on how battles play out mechanically and physiologically (If I know I only have 3 repairs I play much more carefully. If I know my enemy has only 3 repairs I will tactfully try to exploit his weaknesses in order to draw out repairs, while he tries to do the same. A much more subtle dance than knocking back repairs every 10 minutes or so to keep the brawl going.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Well lets look at what factors play into people running all the time? We have ganks so we can mark that off. A good pvp ship is built around being able to flee multiple attacking with no odds of victory (futile battles)

ROE adjusting would remedy this inbalance so ships can be made more focused for combat.
If ROE was adjusted it would also allow the limitation of repairs, which has deep effects on how battles play out mechanically and physiologically (If I know I only have 3 repairs I play much more carefully. If I know my enemy has only 3 repairs I will tactfully try to exploit his weaknesses in order to draw out repairs, while he tries to do the same. A much more subtle dance than knocking back repairs every 10 minutes or so to keep the brawl going.

Ppl in general run if they don’t belive they can win the fight. Think it has less to do with repairs. So when you know you are up against those top players, well ppl run, unless the ods are in there favor. You actually think repairs ore a RoE change, would change that?

Edited December 11, 2018 by staun

[Hethwill]

3 hours ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

what discomfort toward meta-alting its a mechanic of the game and isnt against the rules, to change them so those that bought multiple copies cant use them the game would probably loose atleast half or more of its remaining players

It is not a specific ruling towards provoking discomfort but secondary effects that lead to that discomfort.

All trade through Market is the way to go for many reasons. If you want to go smuggler with yer other nation buddy sure, do it in the OW, and surrender your ship.

Reason 1 - flow of currency through the Ports markets. Meaning tax flow to the owners.

Reason 2 - no monopoly of resources except if you own the port. You, your clan, your nation, own the Port. That is Conquest.

Reason 3 - More shipping and more conflict. From the enemy and from your side. That leads to more combat, whether you wish it so or not.

The notions of free trade were, undeniably so, subverted by a metagame system that goes well beyond the simple "spy" but with deep roots in the logistics system which, when well done and coordinated can both supply everyone with nice ships, but most often paralyze nations and clans by drying out essential supplies.

Will multi nation ALTs still be viable ? Of course they will, but no more cross trade, they must put everything on the market. And that generates Taxation money for the owners at the very least.

A small measure of peace and influx of treasury to those that conquer a port well known for very much sought after resources.

-------------

Empty seas and not wanting to fight are the same face on the coin and all resumes to:

- wanting to sail always the most powerful, where the content for the most powerful ship is undeniably fleet action and conquest ( which requires multiplayer action )

- not wanting to sail ( when sailing from A to B things can happen. when teleporting or sitting in port nothing will happen )

- not wanting prolonged engagements ( battles are 90 minutes, a lot can happen )

 

The running engagements are nothing to be blamed for. It is part of the age of sail engagements. And 90 minutes are sometimes enough to bring that running fight to a conclusion.

[staun]

37 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

 

Reason 3 - More shipping and more conflict. From the enemy and from your side. That leads to more combat, whether you wish it so or not.

I doubt that a lot actually. If conflict let to more combat, why did GB just role over when Spain/Russia seal clubbed them, when Sweden clubbed the entire server. When Pirates/France/GB clubbed Spain. Why don’t Dutch fight back when Sweden take the easy side and the Russian the West side. Why didn’t Dk-NG try to get Dutch out of Fajardo. Why do ppl stay in port when players Camp there ports. Jump playes and Don’t come out to aid. 

Conflict can fuel a fight. We had a good one just right after the merge. Spain/Russia/France/US agsinst Sweden/Dk-NG/Pirates and partly GB. My guess it was good because personal conflict and it was balanced. But what happend when it tipped to one side, that got to strong? The fight stopped over Night. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by staun

[Hethwill]

I don't care about politics.

I care about a living breathing Caribbean in the age of sail Naval Action.

Players make politics, not the game. 

[staun]

Without players there is little breathing in the Caribbean unless we talk on the peace server.

But I disagree on the statement: “Players make politic, not the game.” The game create the rules players have to play by. So by twisting things, the game also set in motion the direction the game will move. If the game didn’t want politic, would we have an RvR in the game. Would we have clans, clan ports. Yesterday admin put up an post about get more action in RvR and what needed to be done. The game is what create the needs. 

[Crimson Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

It is not a specific ruling towards provoking discomfort but secondary effects that lead to that discomfort.

All trade through Market is the way to go for many reasons. If you want to go smuggler with yer other nation buddy sure, do it in the OW, and surrender your ship.

Reason 1 - flow of currency through the Ports markets. Meaning tax flow to the owners.

Reason 2 - no monopoly of resources except if you own the port. You, your clan, your nation, own the Port. That is Conquest.

Reason 3 - More shipping and more conflict. From the enemy and from your side. That leads to more combat, whether you wish it so or not.

The notions of free trade were, undeniably so, subverted by a metagame system that goes well beyond the simple "spy" but with deep roots in the logistics system which, when well done and coordinated can both supply everyone with nice ships, but most often paralyze nations and clans by drying out essential supplies.

Will multi nation ALTs still be viable ? Of course they will, but no more cross trade, they must put everything on the market. And that generates Taxation money for the owners at the very least.

A small measure of peace and influx of treasury to those that conquer a port well known for very much sought after resources.

-------------

Empty seas and not wanting to fight are the same face on the coin and all resumes to:

- wanting to sail always the most powerful, where the content for the most powerful ship is undeniably fleet action and conquest ( which requires multiplayer action )

- not wanting to sail ( when sailing from A to B things can happen. when teleporting or sitting in port nothing will happen )

- not wanting prolonged engagements ( battles are 90 minutes, a lot can happen )

 

The running engagements are nothing to be blamed for. It is part of the age of sail engagements. And 90 minutes are sometimes enough to bring that running fight to a conclusion.

not quite requiring very powerful ships to get that pvp action the nassau patrol zone as a good example same with many other patrol zones is the OP of the 5th rates to 7ths dont need dubloons to build very cheap in resources and capable in groups to take out SOL's  also a 90minute engagement is a bit much especially for 1 v 1's thats an hour and half of running from 1 ship who only keeps ya in battle with bow chasers whether they do damage or slow ya down it doesnt matter thats 1h30m of battle of playing cat and mouse its not appealing to any player, combat length timer should be paired to the BR of attacking and defending ships, if its a battle between large ship to a small ship the small ship should have the advantage as a large ship is likely slower then the smaller faster ship shouldnt draw out a battle if it doesnt have to be, i can see large scale engagements like 10 on 10 or more being an hour or more long but not small 1v1's. 

 

multi nation alts will always find a loophole around nation or clan only ports. whether its slipping into these clans or nations or trading while at sea by giving over their ships to a friend in another nation, this gaming community is small enough that everyone has a friend in another nation, any lock placed on a port can easily be bypassed by simply being in a small clan or being clanless as a clan owned port would need to have ur specific name blocked from entry as with a clan controlled port it would be less work to just add specific clans or players from entering that port  rather then adding a list of those that can enter the port.

ship building of large 4ths- SOLs have been greatly diminished with changes and very few 5th - 7ths are crafted and sold on the market the changes have crippled or atleast made it pointless to sell ships.

[Celtiberofrog]

21 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

The xp, reals, doubloons and loot drops are normal or bellow normal in hostility missions. Imo they should be the best rewarded AI mission type on the server when it comes to XP, reals, doubloons and loot drop. The risk should give instant result in reward and help motivate players to join the grind. 

That's a very good point for RVR incentive. (as well as PB's rewards)

Peeps are not satisfied with mission rewards and long work, here they would earn their living only by being active in port hostilties/conquests.

As we all know RVR activity is a bonus for all other NA activities.

 

Another point:

Refering to current war ships storing symptoms. We went through so many modifications, we tested so many mechanics, that today most of players either do not want to risk losing their "special ships" and sail on cheaper one's, or players just leave the game until new interesting changes (or till the release), knowing that all these stored ships will be lost for ever after a great wipe. 

It's true, like said Rediii, if we had spent months with the current NA configuration, things would be felt differently.

I guess it's mostly a question being tired of doing "work", spending hours again & again and not finding any further satisfaction due to repetitive configuration changes.  

Every player who bought this game is only looking for fun, and RVR was, for some, the best fun to look for.

Also, what is cruel for most of us, is to have tested and really enjoyed some configurations (generating so nice RVR events) that got drasticaly changed afterwards. There is nothing worst to spoil players motivations. (but it's the ransom of being early access testers)

So in front of these facts, what Dev could do is to share a firm development planning, where every steps will be explained and possibly debated. Although it may not bring back player numbers, it might at least keep players hopeful and eventualy recover their motivation.

We thought the release was getting close, but realized that "close" means many months still... 

Definately, the game is really worth it !

[HellDevil_JtR]

Sry for my bad english.

 

i am stream your game now 1 week and i must say its still agreat game (have it since 2016 and had a break )  yeah some change are bad in my eyes but the biggest problem are the ai ships. i play on the pve server and i have sometimes 2 hours where i am sailing and find nothing what fits me. the most time i see something are 1st rate ships with fleet its pure luck if i see a 3th  rate alone or something other we have 100-150 players in pve when i go to the patrol i am sometimes ther for 4 hours only to get my 20k exp. in the beginning you hade many ai ships you found always a target but now its empty. i play a s pirate atm and yes we have the windward channle near us as a "trader route" nut what give it us when we have no ships? idk how many ai are active but what i know its too less for this big map when i should count i see in 10 hours with luck 50 ships and 10 or less  from them i can attack with my consti pls change it fnly.

greetings your HellDevil