Fix looting system

[Jones el Tuerto]

This new looting system doesn't work sometimes it's impossible to turn and go back loot the ship or it's already sunken. Previous system was perfect.

[Hodo]

Well the answer is easier than you would think.

When you know the ship is about to sink, slow down and sail just out of its gun angle, so when it sinks you can swoop in, drop sails and snatch and grab.  I can loot a ship and get going in under 10 seconds from 13kn to 0 back to 13kn.

[Jones el Tuerto]

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Well the answer is easier than you would think.

When you know the ship is about to sink, slow down and sail just out of its gun angle, so when it sinks you can swoop in, drop sails and snatch and grab.  I can loot a ship and get going in under 10 seconds from 13kn to 0 back to 13kn.

I try but sometimes it's hard with the fact that the ship stop suddenly something it's not realistic at all

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, Jones el Tuerto said:

I try but sometimes it's hard with the fact that the ship stop suddenly something it's not realistic at all

It isnt realistic that we can magically fire with nearly pin point accuracy from gyro stabilized cannons on a ship rolling through the waves.  

You can bring your ship to a stop just as fast by using your manual sails.

[admin]

32 minutes ago, Jones el Tuerto said:

This new looting system doesn't work sometimes it's impossible to turn and go back loot the ship or it's already sunken. Previous system was perfect.

what do you mean by previous one? The auto loot one?

[Daguse]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

what do you mean by previous one? The auto loot one?

Ohh good, please no auto loot. 

However, with big fleet actions and PVP with several ships, it still can be hard to make it to the ship on time. Maybe increase the timer one more time? 

[Jones el Tuerto]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

what do you mean by previous one? The auto loot one?

yes, or something like Jeheil said like the wreck thing you go back to port then you come back to take the loot. 

 

15 minutes ago, Hodo said:

It isnt realistic that we can magically fire with nearly pin point accuracy from gyro stabilized cannons on a ship rolling through the waves.  

You can bring your ship to a stop just as fast by using your manual sails.

Well things can always be better it's not that hard, as fast as that ship sinking how? It always depends on your angle to the wind.

[Hodo]

5 minutes ago, Jones el Tuerto said:

yes, or something like Jeheil said like the wreck thing you go back to port then you come back to take the loot. 

 

Well things can always be better it's not that hard, as fast as that ship sinking how? It always depends on your angle to the wind.

Oh ships sink WAY to fast now... faster than the SS Titanic.  It takes a while for a ship to sink it isnt an instant thing.. that is my biggest complaint.  Ship wreckage should be a danger in large fights.  Things you will have to avoid.

[Koltes]

4 hours ago, Jones el Tuerto said:

I try but sometimes it's hard with the fact that the ship stop suddenly something it's not realistic at all

You have sunk the ship and its going down. You still have time (and plenty of time in my opinion) as well as increased speed at which you can loot. Just need some preparation and planning. The system is perfect. Its not about who had a kill, but who first grabbed it. Promotes fights after fights in PVP battles

 

3 hours ago, Hodo said:

Oh ships sink WAY to fast now... faster than the SS Titanic.  It takes a while for a ship to sink it isnt an instant thing.. that is my biggest complaint.  Ship wreckage should be a danger in large fights.  Things you will have to avoid.

Time could have been slightly increased. Maybe make it 5 mins for the ship to sink. I think its fair on everybody. But it can't float there forever.

Edited June 29, 2017 by koltes

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, admin said:

what do you mean by previous one? The auto loot one?

Me thinking he means battle screen

The current system is perfect. Sinking time could probably be changed for slightly easier game play. Missions now are hard enough. People fight for loot and xp grind. Maybe make AI not sink at all in missions and float until player sink it manually during loot? This way players could concentrate on fighting and loot after all fighting is done and then leave.

Player ships could just sink at the same rate as now or slightly longer. IMO its fine and makes combat more challenging especially when you need to loot to grab more repairs so you could survive longer.

[Farrago]

I probably miss almost as many looting opportunities as I do successfully and I still don't think the loot times should be increased again. As it stands now, it adds to the challenge. One must also decide whether to loot or move to your next target. 

[CaptVonGunn]

4 hours ago, koltes said:

You have sunk the ship and its going down. You still have time (and plenty of time in my opinion) as well as increased speed at which you can loot. Just need some preparation and planning. The system is perfect. Its not about who had a kill, but who first grabbed it. Promotes fights after fights in PVP battles

 

Time could have been slightly increased. Maybe make it 5 mins for the ship to sink. I think its fair on everybody. But it can't float there forever.

5 min? These are wooden ships they should take a Long time to sink... Blocking fire and navigation all the while. Hell if a ship for your side starts to sink you should be able to take crew off it to help yours out. 

[Koltes]

2 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

5 min? These are wooden ships they should take a Long time to sink... Blocking fire and navigation all the while. Hell if a ship for your side starts to sink you should be able to take crew off it to help yours out. 

Actually they could go down pretty fast. Initial water intake would depend on how many holes and the size of them. Also the intergity of structure. In NA when your structure is down the water is coming from all holes and cracks.

Once ship is inder water the futher sinking rate depends on few factors like gravity, load, which the water it took, ballast, cannons etc.

Everything is speed up in the game. Cannon reload, sailing ect. Reloading cannons could easily take an hour or so. Ship sinking in NA in 5 min is like over in hour in real life

[dagdriver]

14 hours ago, Hodo said:

Well the answer is easier than you would think.

When you know the ship is about to sink, slow down and sail just out of its gun angle, so when it sinks you can swoop in, drop sails and snatch and grab.  I can loot a ship and get going in under 10 seconds from 13kn to 0 back to 13kn.

AND be very carefull. I lost my ship to a sinking AI with water up to its gunports, when it surprisingly insta-boarded me as I was too close ( they can really pull a long distance). When they won the boarding their original ship had only a bit of the masts visible

[Hodo]

6 hours ago, koltes said:

 

Everything is speed up in the game. Cannon reload, sailing ect. Reloading cannons could easily take an hour or so. Ship sinking in NA in 5 min is like over in hour in real life

Real life cannon reload times is actually pretty fast.  I think the Royal Navy could reload the big guns on the bottom deck in under 5min a gun.  

[St0nkingByte]

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

Real life cannon reload times is actually pretty fast.  I think the Royal Navy could reload the big guns on the bottom deck in under 5min a gun.  

Actually, reloading 2-3 times in 5 minutes was more the norm.

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_artillery_in_the_Age_of_Sail

Quote

A typical broadside of a Royal Navy ship of the late 18th century could be fired 2–3 times in approximately 5 minutes, depending on the training of the crew, a well trained one being essential to the simple yet detailed process of preparing to fire.

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by St0nkingByte
Tactical comma insertion.

[St0nkingByte]

9 hours ago, koltes said:

Actually they could go down pretty fast. Initial water intake would depend on how many holes and the size of them. Also the intergity of structure. In NA when your structure is down the water is coming from all holes and cracks.

Once ship is inder water the futher sinking rate depends on few factors like gravity, load, which the water it took, ballast, cannons etc.

Everything is speed up in the game. Cannon reload, sailing ect. Reloading cannons could easily take an hour or so. Ship sinking in NA in 5 min is like over in hour in real life

I won't comment on the physics of sinking wooden ships, however ships being sunk with the frequency they are sunk in Naval Action is fairly ahistorical.

Consider this from https://www.quora.com/How-often-were-ships-in-age-of-sail-warfare-captured-rather-than-sunk:

Quote

 

During the Napoleonic War, sinking ships was not the aim, they were too valuable. No British ship was destroyed in any of the great battles, and only eight in the entire war. The French lost a number (20 in total) but this was still a small part of their total fleet.

Consider the battle of Trafalgar, where the British had 25 ships of the line and 4 frigates. The French and Spanish together had 33 ships of the line, 7 frigates. British ships included Entreprenante, and Tonnant, both captured from France. French ships included the Berwick, formerly HMS Berwick, captured by the French and recaptured at Trafalgar. A total of 21 ships were captured by the Royal Navy in that action.

 

When the author says the British only lost eight ships he is referring only to Ships Of the Line.

If you want to get more precise "History of the Royal Navy" by William Laird Clowes, vol 4 and vol 5, covering 1793-1815 offers more data in the form of lists of ships lost by each nation in the conflicts of the period. These are neatly summarized here:

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/6235/comparison-of-naval-fleet-strengths-during-the-napoleonic-wars

Across all nations in the period, those ships losing a battle, were overall, sunk 19% of the time. 81% of the time they were captured. Ships of the line were much more likely to be sunk, with 38% of them being sunk as a result of combat, still nearly 2/3rds were captured. 'Cruisers', which I assume means frigates (4th and 5th rates) in this context, were sunk just 22% of the time. Unrated ships were sunk only 13% of the time.

The current situation in Naval Action where most ships (I'm mixing PVE and PVP here) are sunk rather than captured does not reflect the realities of the period the game intends to simulate. In combat situations, the losing ship should be captured at least 2/3rds of the time. Capture should absolutely be the norm and unrated ships should almost always be captured. 

Certainly in a sandbox game if captains choose to sink the enemy that's up to them but much as a driving game might tweak your experience so you don't fly off the road every time you make a wrong steering input, The game should make it easier, not harder, for captains to loot and/or capture, particularly frigates and unrated ships.

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by St0nkingByte
words

[Hodo]

The problem with the current loot and surrender system is their is no quarter on any of it.  It is an ALL or NOTHING system.

If a person can surrender and the victor can take just the cargo or what he wants, I am sure more people would do it.  

I know me personally I would often just take the cargo if it is something I can haul away without to much effort and leave the ship.  If I wanted the ship there should be an option to send it back to port under the command of a junior officer and minimum crew.  It would appear in the open world and sail to the nearest outpost.

[Koltes]

6 hours ago, St0nkingByte said:

I won't comment on the physics of sinking wooden ships, however ships being sunk with the frequency they are sunk in Naval Action is fairly ahistorical.

 

But we ARE discussing physics related issues that affects gameplay. According to OP ships are sinking too fast because... he doesnt have enough time to loot them. This is the issue at hand.
While your facts are correct you are really comparing apples and oranges and on top of that forgot to make a point regarding the OP matter discussed.

Yes ships were sunk in lesser percentage number, however this had nothing to do with the rate ships were taking water and sinking. This has everything to do with the fact that ships in general were exchanging much lesser shots than in the game. This was due for number of reasons one of those being how difficult it was to control sailing ship and position it in the right angle in the right time to fire at the enemy ship as well as damages done in one broadside.
Sometimes all it took is one broadside and ships were out of combat. Getting few holes below waterline meant death and to save the boat captain had to order to push cannons of the damaged side to lift it up above the water to stop taking water and plug the hole. This means the ship was out of combat. Useless. Defenseless. And lots of the were after taking few hits. After the battle was done they were basically free for grabs for the winner. Capturing a ship was much more practical and profitable than simply sink it.

But all this has little to do with game mechanics discussed.

As of NA rate of sinking / capturing is really up to players. There are rewards for both. But also depend on your game play. If you are in a group ganking then capturing ships is a problem for your gank as it slows everyone down.
I hunt solo. I hunt for profit. 90% of my killings are done boarding including vs fighting ships.

 

5 hours ago, Hodo said:

The problem with the current loot and surrender system is their is no quarter on any of it.  It is an ALL or NOTHING system.

If a person can surrender and the victor can take just the cargo or what he wants, I am sure more people would do it.  

I know me personally I would often just take the cargo if it is something I can haul away without to much effort and leave the ship.  If I wanted the ship there should be an option to send it back to port under the command of a junior officer and minimum crew.  It would appear in the open world and sail to the nearest outpost.

^ This.
Have asked many times to redo surrender function. Surrender should be putting your fate to the winner. He decided what to take and weather let you go or sink you. At the end of the day I would let so many people go just taking what I need and let them be on their ship. We dont have this option. If we get access to the enemy's cargo hold this means he is dead and lost his ship.

[surfimp]

I would also like a better surrender mechanic... similar to the trade window, except would popup in battle instance. The one surrendering could make an offer (including payment of gold) and the attacker could either accept or reject, and use in-battle chat to negotiate terms.

Of course, this could also be used for exchanging trade goods / ships /  gold between players in a peaceful way. I don't see that as a problem - it's no different than meeting in a freeport, and so long as there remains no ability to teleport through the OW, then it's really no difference from now.

Overall I just think a better surrender mechanic would be a nice enhancement to the game. Not really relevant to looting mechanics, sorry for the offtopic.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Benedict Ahhnold

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Benedict Ahhnold said:

I would also like a better surrender mechanic... similar to the trade window, except would popup in battle instance. The one surrendering could make an offer (including payment of gold) and the attacker could either accept or reject, and use in-battle chat to negotiate terms.

Of course, this could also be used for exchanging trade goods / ships /  gold between players in a peaceful way. I don't see that as a problem - it's no different than meeting in a freeport, and so long as there remains no ability to teleport through the OW, then it's really no difference from now.

Overall I just think a better surrender mechanic would be a nice enhancement to the game. Not really relevant to looting mechanics, sorry for the offtopic.