Logoff after Battle

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

If it means no more loopholes to place whole invisible fleets in home territory ready to materialize out of the warp then yes.

Mechanic must work blind with all situations, not only our specific. And tbh it hurts more having full RvR fleets hiding than a raider being revenged... IMO

Has to be another way.

There is a 30 min timer in which you cannot enter a port battle. So why not add a 10-15 min timer in which you cannot attack anyone after logging in? Problem solved?

[Hethwill]

Big fleets are not PB only. RvR is not PB only. Suddenly there's timers everywhere for everything.

Sir, I shall accept your proposal. Let me go back to the times where I was untouchable I liked it. Go in, sink, steal, burn and phase out back into port, logoff, whatever without a care in the world.

[victor]

26 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Battle took place at Saint John's / English Harbor.

Sailing in the middle of the ocean with no islands in sight, the probability of meeting anyone is next to non existant.

If this game's supposed to be realistic / hardcore, why don't just grant captains an escape, if they clearly prooved they managed to escape in the first instance? Realistic = Ressembling reality, and as in reality you wouldnt have to deal with in-teleporting ships, it's clearly a bad game mechanic.

But I get it. Most people don't want this game to be a pvp game anymore, but rather a port-flipping / pve game where actual fights dont actually happen, just so players can get a boner looking at their stuff aquired through pve / daily conquest marks income.

We had like what, two actual port battles since the wipe? One of which I was in, sant iago
The rest was all lame agreements with no fights happening. great gameplay, hellokitty online is it you?

You and your kind of player (the pvper) wanted this game to change dramatically.

You were the ones that called for full PVP and hardcore and realism.

You were the ones that wanted one dura ships, pricey materials, expensive cannons and ships, difficult and expensive crafting, no teleport, limits to the rewards of missions, no more capturable IA ships.

Devs listended to you and now ... look at the situation.

Aa lot of players just realized that this new "hard mode" game does not fit their playstyle and is too hard. So they just leave the game or stick to friendly and well defended waters. Moreover they do not risk they hardly earned one dura ships if they are not sure.

THIS - in an huge map with almost no PVE content available (besides the same old mission, rinse and repeat) - is the reason why OS is getting more and more underpopulated.

You wanted it, now face it!

The problem is not revenge fleets, it's the decline of the population in a huge world without contents that obliges you to hunt where the last survivors remain, which is in their home waters.

And now you are just complaining again ... not a great news anyway ... because preys dare to organize and fight back the only way the can (with numbers and near their homelands). So you propose that prays can still be killed but cannot organize an effective revenge.

This only means that you have not learned the lesson at all.

If Devs listen once more to you and make things easier for the aggressor, this will just induce other players to leave the game and/or to enter in the OS only when they feel fully safe.

So, again: less people, less preys for you hunters.

Go on like that and maybe you will have finally reached your dream: a winning ratio of 100% ... but that will be because on the server there will be just you.

The game - my game but also your game - is just doomed if getting ships, cannons and fitting will not be reverted to a easier and affordable task for everyone! This is the only thing to be done, also in the interest of PVPers.

Edited June 26, 2017 by victor

[Liq]

3 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

 

Big fleets are not PB only. RvR is not PB only.

 

Sure but the 'you cannot attack' timer would apply anyway? so you cant enter a wormhole to insta gank someone using a cloaking device.

4 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Go in, sink, steal, burn and phase out back into port, logoff, whatever without a care in the world.

Its "hard" but at the same time hardcore and realistic, as it's advertised, no?

Current revenge fleets are pretty careberaized at the moment.

[Liq]

3 minutes ago, victor said:

So you propose that prays can still be killed but cannot organize an effective revenge.

yup

right now the game doesnt deserve the attributes 'hardcore' nor 'realistic'. More like carebearized arcade.

4 minutes ago, victor said:

Go on like that and maybe you will have finally reached your dream: a winning ratio of 100% ...

You clearly don't know anything about me
My 'dream' is to have good fights. I have lost plenty of times in even-ish situations.

I can just say that on a pvp server, at any time you leave port, you should be clear on the fact that you're risking loosing it, no matter where you go. Then having revenge fleets to carebearize the risk is extremely arcadey.

[victor]

Just now, Liquicity said:

yup

right now the game doesnt deserve the attributes 'hardcore' nor 'realistic'. More like carebearized arcade.

You clearly don't know anything about me
My 'dream' is to have good fights. I have lost plenty of times in even-ish situations.

I can just say that on a pvp server, at any time you leave port, you should be clear on the fact that you're risking loosing it, no matter where you go. Then having revenge fleets to carebearize the risk is extremely arcadey.

If you want good fights, so just let everyone have easy and cheap ships.

It's the way to have a lot of people risking their ships. Plain and simple.

If you had a good fight but then you loose your ship to a revenge fleet, who cares about the loss if it's cheap and easy to replace?

So are you sure that you want just good fights?

Edited June 26, 2017 by victor

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, victor said:

If you want good fights, so just let everyone have easy and cheap ships.

It's the way to have a lot of people risking their ships. Plain and simple.

If you loose your ship to a revenge fleet, who cares if it's cheap and easy to replace?

That's what I'm hoping Arena will be like. Hopefully this summer as it was announced.

NA Sandbox used to be great fun but it kinda turned into a politics simulator with arranged battles, players not willing to fight in decent odds etc. Not really what I'm looking for.

[victor]

Just now, Liquicity said:

That's what I'm hoping Arena will be like. Hopefully this summer as it was announced.

NA Sandbox used to be great fun but it kinda turned into a politics simulator with arranged battles, players not willing to fight in decent odds etc. Not really what I'm looking for.

Well, that's correct, but I think that re balancing costs of replacements could also get back PVP in the OS of the sandbox.

Edited June 26, 2017 by victor

[Liq]

1 minute ago, victor said:

Well, thats correct, but I think that rebalancing costs of replacements could also get back PVP in the OS

Construction costs of 5th rates are actually pretty low at the moment. Cannons cost a bit, sure, but if you've got a workshop to craft them yourself it's not too  bad.

I think most players dont seek for pvp as they're aware of the fact that they'll get revenge swarmed if they dare to attack anything. In enemy waters, yes, but as I said, in the open ocean, meeting anything is next to impossible.

That and the, compared to pve, extremely low gold rewards.

[Ole Pinelle]

10 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

yup

right now the game doesnt deserve the attributes 'hardcore' nor 'realistic'. More like carebearized arcade.

You clearly don't know anything about me
My 'dream' is to have good fights. I have lost plenty of times in even-ish situations.

I can just say that on a pvp server, at any time you leave port, you should be clear on the fact that you're risking loosing it, no matter where you go. Then having revenge fleets to carebearize the risk is extremely arcadey.

The revenge ganking is a mechanic that works. It establishes an area, where you will likely loose your ship. It is a player generated "safe" zone around the most populated areas. Why should anybody be able to sail into that area and expect a fair fight? Why would anybody expect a fair fight in the OW at all? If I find myself in a fair fight, I planned it wrong. 

I think it is a misconeption to play NA in the open world and to expect any kind of chivalrousness or an even fight. That what arena games are for. Maybe you ask in the global chat and make an appointment for a duel.

I was not participating in this fighting/ganking, but according to the national chat, the Swedish could set the clock on your appearance in the Swedish waters. Why should they not take all measures neccessary to stop you from repeatedly raiding swedish waters?  Take a look at the bright side, you were looking for PvP, that`s what you found.

[victor]

3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Construction costs of 5th rates are actually pretty low at the moment. Cannons cost a bit, sure, but if you've got a workshop to craft them yourself it's not too  bad.

I think most players dont seek for pvp as they're aware of the fact that they'll get revenge swarmed if they dare to attack anything. In enemy waters, yes, but as I said, in the open ocean, meeting anything is next to impossible.

That and the, compared to pve, extremely low gold rewards.

I do not agree on the cost of ships being low for a simple reason. Before the wipe the shops in the capital were stockpiled of a lot of crafted ships on sale. Now they are almost empty.

This means just one thing: after the patch ship/cannon construction is used just for self-production (or for clan use), but the high cost of crafting continouosly repairs for combat (hull repairs cost a lot in materials) leaves people with no spare gold enough to buy a crafted ship and the full set of cannons to equip it (at a price that pays the materials with a tip for the builder).

That is why I think that the key factor of the problem is the excessive cost of harvesting iron, oak, fir and hemp: the less this cost, the more the gold in the pocket of players that use ships for their PVP action. So - basically - more room for a crafteted ship player driven market to develop.

Edited June 26, 2017 by victor

[Liq]

12 minutes ago, Ole Pinelle said:

The revenge ganking is a mechanic that works. It establishes an area, where you will likely loose your ship. It is a player generated "safe" zone around the most populated areas. Why should anybody be able to sail into that area and expect a fair fight? Why would anybody expect a fair fight in the OW at all? If I find myself in a fair fight, I planned it wrong. 

I think it is a misconeption to play NA in the open world and to expect any kind of chivalrousness or an even fight. That what arena games are for. Maybe you ask in the global chat and make an appointment for a duel.

I was not participating in this fighting/ganking, but according to the national chat, the Swedish could set the clock on your appearance in the Swedish waters. Why should they not take all measures neccessary to stop you from repeatedly raiding swedish waters?  Take a look at the bright side, you were looking for PvP, that`s what you found.

Read my OP

I am not saying everything should be fair. But hardcore and realistic. So if 5 ships attacked 1 swede near english harbor, and no ships were able to join in the 3 mintutes BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN RANGE, so be it. Thats my definition of hardcore

Me prefering enjoyable battles rather than 10v1 has nothing to do with the fact that revenge fleets are a broken game mechanic.

If they had gotten me in the OW without Camping my battle pos., sure I wouldnt complain as that would be okay and hardcore.

(i did find pvp, 2 surps vs my cecilia. Would have been very closr and interesting but obviously the surps knew better and chained me so they could escape and 10v1 roflstomp me.)

Edited June 26, 2017 by Liquicity

[C0deX]

37 minutes ago, victor said:

You and your kind of player (the pvper) wanted this game to change dramatically.

You were the ones that called for full PVP and hardcore and realism.

You were the ones that wanted one dura ships, pricey materials, expensive cannons and ships, difficult and expensive crafting, no teleport, limits to the rewards of missions, no more capturable IA ships.

Devs listended to you and now ... look at the situation.

Aa lot of players just realized that this new "hard mode" game does not fit their playstyle and is too hard. So they just leave the game or stick to friendly and well defended waters. Moreover they do not risk they hardly earned one dura ships if they are not sure.

THIS - in an huge map with almost no PVE content available (besides the same old mission, rinse and repeat) - is the reason why OS is getting more and more underpopulated.

You wanted it, now face it!

The problem is not revenge fleets, it's the decline of the population in a huge world without contents that obliges you to hunt where the last survivors remain, which is in their home waters.

And now you are just complaining again ... not a great news anyway ... because preys dare to organize and fight back the only way the can (with numbers and near their homelands). So you propose that prays can still be killed but cannot organize an effective revenge.

This only means that you have not learned the lesson at all.

If Devs listen once more to you and make things easier for the aggressor, this will just induce other players to leave the game and/or to enter in the OS only when they feel fully safe.

So, again: less people, less preys for you hunters.

Go on like that and maybe you will have finally reached your dream: a winning ratio of 100% ... but that will be because on the server there will be just you.

The game - my game but also your game - is just doomed if getting ships, cannons and fitting will not be reverted to a easier and affordable task for everyone! This is the only thing to be done, also in the interest of PVPers.

I agree with u. Here people are attacked by 2-12 ships and then the attacker cries over revenge fleets.

The attacker is already enough in the advantage with the new timer.

Fair fights want the fewest. Lonely people and newbies with great superiority in the ground stamping is their favorite play style.

If a trader was attacked in front of a port two hundred years ago and this was seen. Have also helped patrolling ships. And the combat ships have left the Port to catch the attacker when they are ready.

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by C0deX

[Ole Pinelle]

49 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Read my OP

I am not saying everything should be fair. But hardcore and realistic. So if 5 ships attacked 1 swede near english harbor, and no ships were able to join in the 3 mintutes BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN RANGE, so be it. Thats my definition of hardcore

Me prefering enjoyable battles rather than 10v1 has nothing to do with the fact that revenge fleets are a broken game mechanic.

If they had gotten me in the OW without Camping my battle pos., sure I wouldnt complain as that would be okay and hardcore.

(i did find pvp, 2 surps vs my cecilia. Would have been very closr and interesting but obviously the surps knew better and chained me so they could escape and 10v1 roflstomp me.)

I did.  But the complete OW is neither hardcore nor realistic. It is a compromise for fun. Nobody wants a hardcore and realistic reflection of the age of sails in a PC game (I myself am an sailing enthusiast and spend all my available weekends and holidays sailing on the western and southern baltic sea. But I would not want a single aspect of this in a PC game). It would be hardcore if everybody in sight of the attacker or the defender would be instantly pulled into a battle instance without timer without choice and the battle instance would end if you leave the sight of the defender or attacker and everybody on the OS in the area would automatically be pulled into the instance at anytime of the battle. But so a battle would take likely days and everyone in a populated area would have to sail in battle instances and slowed down accordingly.  So we would allmost sail in one instance in real time to almost real speeds and almost real distances (even though we have always perfect wind conditions in battle instances and vessels sailing with 4xtime acceleration, high-speed reloading, no drift, no declination, accurate maps, no care for provisions...)

So it is a gameplay mechanic, maybe a broken one, but the results (you can not single out a target, attack it and leave unpunished in populated enemy waters) are the same. I don´t  like the instancing, the timers, the invisiblity and all the work around the main problem, but I guess that`s the compromise. A longer timer is another work-around and maybe a balancing factor, but just another broken mechanic for a broken mechanic.

At the end of the day, I think the revenge fleet only works in sight of shore, when the attacked can give a good position and when enough other vessels are close by in a nearby outpost. In sight of shore and close to a port, the raider should expect a reaction from the navy ships close by, which would complicate his endeauver, so the mechanic, even if it is broken, is in it`s result by your definition hardcore, or not? 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Ole Pinelle

[akd]

The mechanic (force to OS and hold players hostage to game) just encourages ganking.  A fair battle lasts longer, so increasing the probability you will face a revenge fleet at a greater radius from "safe waters" (whatever the hello kitty those are).  Group gains the same rewards as an individual (just divided among group), so it is simply rational behavior to only gank under current mechanics.

And no, this is not realistic and hardcore.  Historically, captains really did receive better "rewards" for fair fights, and a system that allows easy exploitation of OW time compression is not hardcore.

[Sureshot]

When players have the BR advantage in their home waters against raiders and they still call a revenge fleet, chain and run, than you know that this is a toxic mechanic. Escaping with no way to log off is as cancerous as it gets. 

 

[Vernon Merrill]

Amusing that they'll add mechanics that will ensure the safety of a port battle fleet arriving safely to a scheduled Port Battle.  But God forbid a PvP'er want to log off after getting chased and tagged for 4 hours.  

Caribbean Politics Action

 

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, victor said:

You and your kind of player (the pvper) wanted this game to change dramatically.

You were the ones that called for full PVP and hardcore and realism.

You were the ones that wanted one dura ships, pricey materials, expensive cannons and ships, difficult and expensive crafting, no teleport, limits to the rewards of missions, no more capturable IA ships.

Devs listended to you and now ... look at the situation.

Aa lot of players just realized that this new "hard mode" game does not fit their playstyle and is too hard. So they just leave the game or stick to friendly and well defended waters. Moreover they do not risk they hardly earned one dura ships if they are not sure.

THIS - in an huge map with almost no PVE content available (besides the same old mission, rinse and repeat) - is the reason why OS is getting more and more underpopulated.

You wanted it, now face it!

The problem is not revenge fleets, it's the decline of the population in a huge world without contents that obliges you to hunt where the last survivors remain, which is in their home waters.

And now you are just complaining again ... not a great news anyway ... because preys dare to organize and fight back the only way the can (with numbers and near their homelands). So you propose that prays can still be killed but cannot organize an effective revenge.

This only means that you have not learned the lesson at all.

If Devs listen once more to you and make things easier for the aggressor, this will just induce other players to leave the game and/or to enter in the OS only when they feel fully safe.

So, again: less people, less preys for you hunters.

Go on like that and maybe you will have finally reached your dream: a winning ratio of 100% ... but that will be because on the server there will be just you.

The game - my game but also your game - is just doomed if getting ships, cannons and fitting will not be reverted to a easier and affordable task for everyone! This is the only thing to be done, also in the interest of PVPers.

You trader/RvR guys kill me....  You'll bitch about the price of Carolina Tobacco in some obscure port and say that the "economy is completely broken"...  but a game mechanic that actually makes people stop playing the game is "wanting a 100% winning ratio"?

You probably havent sailed more than 30 seconds from a friendly port or "fort of instant doom"  the entire time you've played this game...

Please stick to economy micromanagement instead of PvP mechanics.  OKTHANKSBYE

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

You can't compare that lol

Mechanic will be implement because exploiting it with alts will happen much more if it's not implemented.

You mean that might make people quit the game because of frustration!?!?  Well let me tell you a funny story......

[Hodo]

22 hours ago, Liquicity said:

@all the global guys never having to deal with revenge fleets due to the server pop peak of 300....

 

Sidenote:
Slowclap @Kaempfer86 and @VeeForce for leaving a 1v2 (being the two) to then absolutely be positive to Zerg Rush me in a 10v1.

  Reveal hidden contents

I have faced revenge fleets and I can tell you the trick with dealing with them.

Sail a ship that can out run them at a point of sail they suck at.  

This is why I sail the Lynx or the Privateer.  

 

[victor]

44 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

You trader/RvR guys kill me....  You'll bitch about the price of Carolina Tobacco in some obscure port and say that the "economy is completely broken"...  but a game mechanic that actually makes people stop playing the game is "wanting a 100% winning ratio"?

You probably havent sailed more than 30 seconds from a friendly port or "fort of instant doom"  the entire time you've played this game...

Please stick to economy micromanagement instead of PvP mechanics.  OKTHANKSBYE

No ships in shops are a fact. So economy is broken.

Population is declinig very fast once more. So your beloved hardcore mode is showing as a complete failure.

You are a vocal minority that has been shouting too loud for too much time, since the majority of the players are engaged in trade, craft or organized RvR. 

Wake up from your wet dreams, man. 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by victor

[Vernon Merrill]

Victor, what do you care?  You can sail from port to port in more safety increasing your pixel bank account.  

Its obvious why many with over 2000 hours in the game are "taking a break"...   

 

[Hodo]

20 minutes ago, victor said:

No ships in shops are a fact. So economy is broken.

Population is declinig very fast once more. So your beloved hardcore mode is showing as a complete failure.

You are a vocal minority that has been shouting too loud for too much time, since the majority of the players are engaged in trade, craft or RvR. 

Wake up from your wet dreams, man. 

 

There are ships IN the shops.  But not in the shops you are going to. 

I have seen several ships in Charleston on Global, ships are for sale in Mortimer, and in KPR.  AND even Havana.

But the market isnt as strong as it was pre-wipe but it is getting stronger day by day.  Oh and there was 350 people on Global Sunday night around 6pm EST.  So dont say it is dieing off. 

[TommyShelby]

I applaud you for your continous efforts in fighting the "Home Defense Fleet" mechanics my beloved Liquicity. <3 

But we have made so many suggestions on ways to fix this shit. Heck we've even had a discussion with the more RvR focused players such as Rediii and come up with a nice compromise/proposal which we could both agree to. 

While NA used to be mostly about OW PvP it has now turned into a PvE/Trading/RvR game. Which i find to be very sad because there is something epic about OW PvP. 

I understand why you hope NA Legends will be great but for me personally, i don't want an Arena version of NA. I never did. Sea Trials was fun but OW was epic. 

When i leave port in NA to go hunting, i don't know what i might find. The thrill of the unknown is awesome to some extend. 
I very well know that if i go to a populated area (Doesn't have to be an enemy capital btw.) there is a really good chance i'll be met with bigger groups of ships which will try to chase me. Sometimes however i'll be lucky and find a ship of the same size as mine and we can bash it out, or maybe he will flee and i get to chase him down in the instance. 
The fact that the battles you get are never the same, and very rarely 100% equal, is one of the things that makes me love Naval Action. 

But why is it that the "Defenders" should have such a big advantage? When i go into a battle, 1v1 (Trinc v Trinc) and i win, 45 minutes can have passed. When i pop out of the battle there is 10 of my opponents friends waiting for me in a circle around my battle. 
This is not epic. This is not fun. 

I hope this is fixed but i doubt it. However i will always support the removal of these kind of bullshit mechanics. 

[Hodo]

10 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I applaud you for your continous efforts in fighting the "Home Defense Fleet" mechanics my beloved Liquicity. <3 

But we have made so many suggestions on ways to fix this shit. Heck we've even had a discussion with the more RvR focused players such as Rediii and come up with a nice compromise/proposal which we could both agree to. 

While NA used to be mostly about OW PvP it has now turned into a PvE/Trading/RvR game. Which i find to be very sad because there is something epic about OW PvP. 

I understand why you hope NA Legends will be great but for me personally, i don't want an Arena version of NA. I never did. Sea Trials was fun but OW was epic. 

When i leave port in NA to go hunting, i don't know what i might find. The thrill of the unknown is awesome to some extend. 
I very well know that if i go to a populated area (Doesn't have to be an enemy capital btw.) there is a really good chance i'll be met with bigger groups of ships which will try to chase me. Sometimes however i'll be lucky and find a ship of the same size as mine and we can bash it out, or maybe he will flee and i get to chase him down in the instance. 
The fact that the battles you get are never the same, and very rarely 100% equal, is one of the things that makes me love Naval Action. 

But why is it that the "Defenders" should have such a big advantage? When i go into a battle, 1v1 (Trinc v Trinc) and i win, 45 minutes can have passed. When i pop out of the battle there is 10 of my opponents friends waiting for me in a circle around my battle. 
This is not epic. This is not fun. 

I hope this is fixed but i doubt it. However i will always support the removal of these kind of bullshit mechanics. 

I agree that it is stupid, but I think the battle icon should only be visible to those who were in range of it when it started.  Not everyone and their mother who had been sitting in port waiting for this to happen.