Resource Imbalance

[Yngvarr]

@admin

Okay, explain this to me.

Below you find a link to the Santo Domingo region of the Dominican Republic part of the island.

http://i.imgur.com/MatvXky.jpg

Apparently, you see some kind of logic in the distribution of those resources, but i simply cannot.

These are again crucial resources that are needed to build sturdy ships, and (again) they are put in regions of the Spanish.

 

I mean, Dutch, start out with:

- no coal

- no silver

- no gold

- no teak

- no live oak

- no white oak

There is literally, no single resource that we have, that other nations don't. (except from the sub-par wood types).

 

Also, the Cartagena de Indias region contains Fir, Oak, Silver, Gold, Lignum Vitae, Hemp, Sugar, Food Supplies, Coal, Iron Ore, Stone Blocks.

Pretty much all the resources you need for building ships, condensed in 1 region, which is of course, Spanish

 

And i know the answer to some of this will be "it's a conquest goal", but: 

1. How do you expect us to build large ships without Silver or Gold.

2. If we somehow managed to build these ships, we can only outfit them with medium cannons, because we have no coal.

3. The ships we will make, will at best be of Sabicu and/ or Caguairán, and therefore more vulnerable than the ships of our enemies, that do have Live Oak and White Oak.

 

In short, all crucial resources are in hand of the British, Spanish or American players.

 

So, in the way of resources, we are at a disadvantage at every turn, and for this i would request a more balanced spread of resources throughout the map.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

To base resource distribution on the very temporary initial starting conditions is silly.

That said, the live and white oak distribution is a bit of a piss-take to most of those who live in the southern half of the map since there's not really much of an alternative and all the medium-range woods are borderline useless now that we can mix and match frames and hull anyways.

[Remus]

Silver and gold seem plentiful for the small quantities needed in ships. I have healthy stocks (admittedly I haven't yet made any ships which need furnishings) and I am always seeing it for sale in shops. Moderate quantities drop from iron mines (and stone and coal mines) so if someone is making guns there should be a supply. Having said that, I'd welcome the ability to cast gold and silver ingots from coins, even if it needed charcoal.

Coal is a problem. Enough drops from iron mines to be able to make gold and silver ingots, but not nowhere near enough for long guns and large carronades. I see a market for niche traders, mining coal and hauling it to regions which don't have it. But for international trade this would either have to be via a free town, or buyers putting up buy orders since I don't think foreign traders can place sell orders in a port. I think the game could do quite a bit with international trade in materials needed in game rather than useless yorkshire puddings (do the Dutch not have eggs, or is it milk or flour you lack?).

Teak distribution seems reasonable. It wasn't grown in the Americas at the time so is seeded in British ports. I'm not in a white oak region either, so yesterday I sailed all the way to Texas to buy some. You can do the same, though if I'd probably try a different seed port if I were Dutch!

 

[Batman]

I know people that bought alt accounts just to supply their clan with gold. I am not sure if this is what the devs want - every sold copy makes them happy I guess - but this resource placement seriously needs reworking. Balance has to be put on top of historical accuracy.

[Yngvarr]

48 minutes ago, Remus said:

Silver and gold seem plentiful for the small quantities needed in ships

well, last week i sailed from Willemstad, all the way to San Juan del Norte as a smuggler.

I went into every port on the way, trying to find gold or silver

And i found not gold or silver at all at any of these ports.

 

so no, for us, Gold and Silver are not available in any meaningful quantity.

[Yngvarr]

It's just that the combination of being a rather small nation, territory wise, and all important resources being in other nations regions causes us to be starved of the resources we need to be able to compete at any level in this game.

 

This means that other nations are able to progress much more quickly, which causes them to be able to capture more regions, which gives them more Conquest Marks.

Which means that they can more easily defend their regions.

and you get situations like this:

http://i.imgur.com/kwzCVuP.jpg

 

It's just a vicious circle.

[Thonys]

Good post... i agree on everything you said, actually its pathetic don't you think..

but we must not upset the devs now otherwise the oak forest will shut down to............

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Thonys

[Agiond]

I think the devs said that resources are on historical locations. So if your region doesn't have white oak, you have three options:

1: Conquest a region with that reource

2: Go smuggler to a port that produces that reource and buy it

3: Tell your clan/nation diplos to talk to a nation that produces that resource and reach an agreement, either to trade it or exchange ports.

 

Looking at the dutch position i think your best option is the third one.

[Jack Frost]

This does sound like an imbalance that needs to be adressed. Since AI doest produce allot of materials anymore, beïng a smuggler is not as effective. The lack of 1-2 rescources you can compensate no doubt, by international trade. But the list you give here seems rather ridiculous. Basically the only way to make ships is for the Dutch to have spanish alts at the moment? Is that something we really want to promote?

Is there a way to call your allies to help capture this important region? no doubt you'll be able to help them better after capturing this port

[Remus]

6 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

so no, for us, Gold and Silver are not available in any meaningful quantity.

What is a 'meaningful quantity'?

The worst case is building Renommees, but if that's your game you should be collecting PvP marks hand over fist and can afford the Admiralty exchange. I suppose Constitutions are the next worse (are you really trying to make Constitutions?). A Constitution takes over 3200 LH to make - over 3 player-days - and requires just 26 silver, 26 gold and 13 coal. Can you really not get that from your nation's iron mines?

You could even run iron mines simply to harvest silver and gold the same way we used to run fir forests to harvest compass wood. Admittedly iron is very expensive to collect (stone is cheaper but it is far slower I think), but there is a profitable trade to be had selling iron fittings to the shop (though this uses valuable LH and in due course shops will become swamped and drop prices to 1). Then there is the PvP marks exchange for furnishings. Adding another 6.5 PvP marks to the 15 you need for the permit seems a little harsh, but not impossible.

I might be sounding a little callous - I would love to see international trade mechanisms in the game so enterprising players could sell rare but necessary resources to those with no access them - but I thought the main purpose of playing one of the small nations was because of the challenge. Why not rise to it, rather than stoop to complain?

[Thonys]

2 minutes ago, Remus said:

What is a 'meaningful quantity'?

 

 

build a single renomee (1)for the whole clan

Edited June 10, 2017 by Thonys

[Agiond]

1 minute ago, Jack Frost said:

This does sound like an imbalance that needs to be adressed. Since AI doest produce allot of materials anymore, beïng a smuggler is not as effective. The lack of 1-2 rescources you can compensate no doubt, by international trade. But the list you give here seems rather ridiculous. Basically the only way to make ships is for the Dutch to have spanish alts at the moment? Is that something we really want to promote?

Is there a way to call your allies to help capture this important region? no doubt you'll be able to help them better after capturing this port

They can't capture it. The dutch do not have ships to capture it and their allies cannot join the port battle. That's why they need to engage in diplomatic relations with who has those ports. Tho i doubt the spanish will give them a port to create high rate ships that they could use against the spanish nation (some guarantees would be needed)

[Thonys]

7 minutes ago, Agiond said:

I think the devs said that resources are on historical locations. So if your region doesn't have white oak, you have three options:

1: Conquest a region with that reource

2: Go smuggler to a port that produces that reource and buy it

3: Tell your clan/nation diplos to talk to a nation that produces that resource and reach an agreement, either to trade it or exchange ports.

 

Looking at the dutch position i think your best option is the third one.

1: conquest with what.....mercurys are not allowed in pb

2:take a smugler brig and get jumped by 10 aga 

3: talks for cheats ????

the nations best option is to quit ....>> unplayable 

players already are on rage quiting mode by lack of money an bager standards (the question is how long can they cope with this situation 

[Hethwill]

11 minutes ago, Thonys said:

1: conquest with what.....mercurys are not allowed in pb

There are 3 types of Port Battles.

Shallow Ports - Mercury may enter

Up to 4th rate - Mercury may enter

Up to 1st rate - Cerberus and up.

 

[Stilgar]

Although I share concerns of fellow Dutchmen and we indeed have some difficulties with availability of some key resources, I do not see the situation hopeless. I actually think that availability of conquest and PVP marks is real bottleneck. We are quite far from zone with high PvP activity. Besides, conquest is very slow to get enough conquest marks to build the fleets fast enough. (speaking of situation on EU server)

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

There are 3 types of Port Battles.

Shallow Ports - Mercury may enter

Up to 4th rate - Mercury may enter

Up to 1st rate - Mercury may enter

 

no we tried that>  only cerberus can enter pb 1 rate

you miss the situation whats going on...

for shallow sure a mercury can enter ,but that are not the ports we want , do we...

[Agiond]

8 minutes ago, Thonys said:

1: conquest with what.....mercurys are not allowed in pb

2:take a smugler brig and get jumped by 10 aga 

3: talks for cheats ????

the nations best option is to quit ....>> unplayable 

players already are on rage quiting mode by lack of money an bager standards (the question is how long can they cope with this situation 

1: I was the one who spotted your fleet with Bellonas in Barranquilla. That's a start

2: Go with friends to escort you. BTW i doubt you'll get attacked by 10 agas down there, and even an indiaman is faster than those bricks.

3: That isn't a cheat as said by the devs

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

no we tried that>  only cerberus can enter pb 1 rate

I stand corrected indeed.

[Thonys]

bribing a city employee to get a hold on some land in the city perimeter..........  is also not a cheat (bribe)?

it works very strange in the former soviet union if you ask me

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

I see no reason why international trade cannot function, even if it is only at a clan level. As long as the nations concerned have a trade agreement or are neutral at the time of the transaction.

If a rogue clan of that nation attacks your merchantman you just  increase the price of the next transactions to cover the loss and replacement of the trader, if for whatever the  reason the nations find themselves at war then you simply turn off the supply. If you have the misfortune to run into an enemy player who sinks your ship and takes the cargo then both clans can really only accept it as the misfortunes of war.

In effect it would be a private contract between clans at an international level and subject to the level of hostility between those nations.

[monk33y]

*Rolls eyes*

The whole point of this game is conquest.  Meaning to take regions!

We are in a new age where nations like the Dutch NO longer have instant access to 75% of server population in alliances and 75% of map ports through alliances!!!

(why am I seeing the same players now complaining, when in the past they said nothing) 

[Norfolk nChance]

6 minutes ago, monk33y said:

*Rolls eyes*

The whole point of this game is conquest.  Meaning to take regions!

We are in a new age where nations like the Dutch NO longer have instant access to 75% of server population in alliances and 75% of map ports through alliances!!!

(why am I seeing the same players now complaining, when in the past they said nothing) 

 

[monk33y]

Thank you, someone who's thinking...

 

Norfolk.

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, monk33y said:

*Rolls eyes*

The whole point of this game is conquest.  Meaning to take regions!

We are in a new age where nations like the Dutch NO longer have instant access to 75% of server population in alliances and 75% of map ports through alliances!!!

(why am I seeing the same players now complaining, when in the past they said nothing) 

Well i dont know ..

but monkeys always turns their back on you , when they are looked straight in the eyes by a Alpha

 

[Jack Frost]

35 minutes ago, Agiond said:

They can't capture it. The dutch do not have ships to capture it and their allies cannot join the port battle. That's why they need to engage in diplomatic relations with who has those ports. Tho i doubt the spanish will give them a port to create high rate ships that they could use against the spanish nation (some guarantees would be needed)

Allies can screen the port battle, keep all enemies out so the dutch only need ships to kill the towers. If you really want to capture it i belive there must be a way.

[Yngvarr]

1 minute ago, monk33y said:

The whole point of this game is conquest.  Meaning to take regions!

How do you expect us to capture regions, if we cannot build the ships we need to do so, and the ships we can build, are of sub-par wood types.

You might ask why this is.

 

It's because some nations have had all resources they needed from the start.

Meaning they have a very large head-start, meaning they can steamroll any PB attack or PB defence that we put up.

I really don't understand why i have to keep explaining this.

 

If you make a game where conquest is very important, resource distribution needs to be balanced.

Giving certain nations a head start concerning resources is just a bad idea.

I mean, it's not as if these complaints couldn't have been anticipated.