Possible for clans operation if we can have a blank sea

[Capt Schroder]

To practice operations target firing tactics and other clan or group strategies please 

[Destraex]

This is how clans dominate. They usually have there own practice servers and spend 24/7 practising. Please give them all the best tools to game the game.

[Edward Vernon]

This is how clans dominate. They usually have there own practice servers and spend 24/7 practising. Please give them all the best tools to game the game.

No-one is stopping anyone or a number of individuals from getting together and practicing. This is what people who want to be good at something do. If you want to operate in isolation, there is nothing stopping you setting up in a practice room until you have mastered tacking a ship as fast as possible using the Manual Skipper option. There really is no need to be anti-clan on this is there?

 

Oh and remember that there was significant historical domination by clans ...they were called nations.....

[Robert Danforth]

Even an individual room would be welcome. Every time I unlock a new ship, it takes some time to get a handle on its characteristics (after all, every ship has its own quirks, &c.). Much more pleasant to do this without being shot at.

[Johny Reb]

This is how clans dominate. They usually have there own practice servers and spend 24/7 practising. Please give them all the best tools to game the game.

Well good for them! If they are smart enough to practice together then they should dominate against those loners who feel to smug to play the game with others. Game the game? Practicing sailing maneuvers and focus firing is gaming the game? What sir do you mean by that?

[D. Federico de Gravina y N]

+10.000

[Black Dynamite]

I'm all for clans practicing but since its going to be open world they shouldn't have their own blank space where no one can mess with them. I think it'd be much better if they had to practice maybe in a territory that they own. So that way other clans can attack while they're practicing as a tactic. Would make it much more fun i think. 

[Johny Reb]

I'm all for clans practicing but since its going to be open world they shouldn't have their own blank space where no one can mess with them. I think it'd be much better if they had to practice maybe in a territory that they own. So that way other clans can attack while they're practicing as a tactic. Would make it much more fun i think. 

well I dont think thats the point of the discussion. No one is talking about a practice instance that ONLY clans can use. Anyone would be able to use it so it doesn't benefit one over the other. Plus, I think the initial suggestion was for sea trials and not necessarily for the open world although there would probably need to be some parallel for groups to train.

[Black Dynamite]

well I dont think thats the point of the discussion. No one is talking about a practice instance that ONLY clans can use. Anyone would be able to use it so it doesn't benefit one over the other. Plus, I think the initial suggestion was for sea trials and not necessarily for the open world although there would probably need to be some parallel for groups to train.

 

Well i apologize if that's not the point of the discussion but that's what his request sounded like. He wanted a "blank sea" for clans to be able to practice on. I don't know how having your own private space during sea trials would work but for EA (which will hopefully have open world then) clan's should have to find their own little area where nothing is going on if they want to train.

[Robert Danforth]

It's a practice area for ANYONE to use, but it came up because many of the clans have been trying to work with new members, &c. No reason it can't be used for anybody, either by themselves or with other people in trials.

[Destraex]

I still think it is much more realistic to learn on the job or by firing blanks or doing dry fire runs in the open world.

New players just need a tutorial or light ship servers vs AI

Being a computer game though we are always going to have people who are able to practice in a way that only a compute simulation can allow. That is cheap and free of risk.

[Destraex]

p.s. Don't think new players will get anything out of this. He asks in his post originally specifically for use by clanners for clan and group operations. This is very different to basic noob skills.

[Johny Reb]

p.s. Don't think new players will get anything out of this. He asks in his post originally specifically for use by clanners for clan and group operations. This is very different to basic noob skills.

For sure I think he was thinking in terms of clans but the obvious evolution of that idea would be that anyone could use it. I doubt he would object to that. I just don't think he was thinking about that at the time of the post.

 

It will benefit anyone who chooses to use it. Larger groups (clan groups or just groups of unaffiliated friends) would probably get the most out of it but all would benefit for sure.

 

The open world will not be a place that this coordination can be practiced as the plan is to have battle instances much like Potbs so the request is simply for an instance that doesn't require me to attack something. In the real world Captains had years of training before they commanded a ship of their own. Our players will have none so i think its very reasonable to have training rooms.

 

In Potbs, I ran a number of training skirms. You would think that many of the principles of sailing would come easy to everyone but that just isn't the case. Now add in manual sailing and you have reason for groups as well as individuals to train and practice. You can't do that efficiently in a battle, especially a large battle.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Being able to drop into a free-sail instance with friendlies is important.  Whether it's just helping a new person to understand their ship, or a large group of Society Members working on formation sailing and attack scenarios, the ability to learn ship handling without facing an enemy is quite important.  Well stated Mr. Reb.  +1 and a glass of wine with you sir.

[Destraex]

For sure I think he was thinking in terms of clans but the obvious evolution of that idea would be that anyone could use it. I doubt he would object to that. I just don't think he was thinking about that at the time of the post.

 

It will benefit anyone who chooses to use it. Larger groups (clan groups or just groups of unaffiliated friends) would probably get the most out of it but all would benefit for sure.

 

The open world will not be a place that this coordination can be practiced as the plan is to have battle instances much like Potbs so the request is simply for an instance that doesn't require me to attack something. In the real world Captains had years of training before they commanded a ship of their own. Our players will have none so i think its very reasonable to have training rooms.

 

In Potbs, I ran a number of training skirms. You would think that many of the principles of sailing would come easy to everyone but that just isn't the case. Now add in manual sailing and you have reason for groups as well as individuals to train and practice. You can't do that efficiently in a battle, especially a large battle.

We just need tutorials. Rest should be learned on the job as in real life, including formation sailing. Your clanners can train off scotland. Navies in times of war did not have access to "safe" training grounds. The space needed is too large to be contrained from enemy influence. In fact I have no idea whether they trained other than agreeing to tactics at admirals cabin style meetings with the ships just doing the best they could to stick to the planned formation.

 

I really think that these kind of private testing grounds allow waaaay too much in the way of preparedness that was not allowed for in real life and would detract from the game rather than adding to it. People should not be allowed to repeat things to death with their unlimited time resources. Practice makes perfect but do we want perfect players in game by way of perfect training grounds??

Nay I think just some basic tutorials and an admirals meeting combined with the vastness of open sea.

 

We are sailing ships and half of that is in the way the navies WERE not drilled in formation and knew more of it from experience. Opportunities for set piece manoevers and complex plans were limited by the quality and real life experience of each ships captain and crew not repeated formation perfection. That was more of an army thing practised in land battles.

I don't want to play against people who have spent weeks training for perfect formations. If they want to do that then introduce random failures to foil them and make battles fairer for those of us who cannot afford that kind of time. 

Heck it won't upset me that much. But I can def smell people trying to get ahead of the PUGs rather than teaching the pugs with this.

 

P.S. I would also be for perhaps a training ground for a trainer and one pupil. But not a place for 12 man sides to go nuts artificially preparing above and beyond any real navy.

[Leviathan]

When the game is released I think an instance for new players to go through a tutorial would be appropriate.

 

Once they've registered they could be loaded into an empy sea and given on-screen directions for rudder, sails, and so on to get the hang of it. Perhaps load them first with a fore-and-aft rigged ship and then a square rig so they understand the basics of each. Afterward, it could send them through a small mission or target range to allow them to practice their gunnery. They could stay here, by themselves with some AI, for as long as they see fit or when they log out before entering the game.

 

I could also see these instances being given to players as they move from one ship class to another. However, I think everything else should be limited to the Open World with no instances for group training regardless if anyone is in a society/clan/guild or not.

[Robert Danforth]

We just need tutorials. Rest should be learned on the job as in real life, including formation sailing. Your clanners can train off scotland. Navies in times of war did not have access to "safe" training grounds. The space needed is too large to be contrained from enemy influence. In fact I have no idea whether they trained other than agreeing to tactics at admirals cabin style meetings with the ships just doing the best they could to stick to the planned formation.

 

In real life, people were not suddenly made Captain and thrown at a ship to command it. They spent years as junior officers, learning the ropes (literally and figuratively) from their own captains. In the navies of the world, they took exams heavy in math and tactics before being promoted. In the game, we don't have years to spend as underlings, we're starting as commanders of ships. Having an area to practice and learn the quirks of our ships as well as formations, be it PUG or clan, is the only way to counter that shortcoming.

 

The tactics of the day were not "just doing the best they could". These were experienced sailors and officers in command, and they definitely knew what they were doing.

 

And, as you said, you have "no idea".

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

We just need tutorials. Rest should be learned on the job as in real life, including formation sailing. Your clanners can train off scotland. Navies in times of war did not have access to "safe" training grounds. The space needed is too large to be contrained from enemy influence. In fact I have no idea whether they trained other than agreeing to tactics at admirals cabin style meetings with the ships just doing the best they could to stick to the planned formation.

 

I really think that these kind of private testing grounds allow waaaay too much in the way of preparedness that was not allowed for in real life and would detract from the game rather than adding to it. People should not be allowed to repeat things to death with their unlimited time resources. Practice makes perfect but do we want perfect players in game by way of perfect training grounds??

Nay I think just some basic tutorials and an admirals meeting combined with the vastness of open sea.

 

We are sailing ships and half of that is in the way the navies WERE not drilled in formation and knew more of it from experience. Opportunities for set piece manoevers and complex plans were limited by the quality and real life experience of each ships captain and crew not repeated formation perfection. That was more of an army thing practised in land battles.

I don't want to play against people who have spent weeks training for perfect formations. If they want to do that then introduce random failures to foil them and make battles fairer for those of us who cannot afford that kind of time. 

Heck it won't upset me that much. But I can def smell people trying to get ahead of the PUGs rather than teaching the pugs with this.

 

P.S. I would also be for perhaps a training ground for a trainer and one pupil. But not a place for 12 man sides to go nuts artificially preparing above and beyond any real navy.

 

Some Admirals drilled their squadrons, watching their gunnery, practicing passing signals up and down a widely spread line, etc.  No, they didn't have a "safe" place to do so, but it was something that was done, at least for blockading squadrons.  Mr. Danforth's statement is pretty spot on, in that by the time you were handed a ship, you usually had quite a few years of service under your belt in the lower officer ranks, having been responsible for the ship on watches, led that ship in performing all of the various maneuvers, etc, all under the watchful eye of your far more experienced superiors.

 

I too am a casual gamer, however, I understand that people that have hours and hours to spend will always be better than me.  The addition of a place to train will not change that, they may indeed just group up and lie off of Scotland, but what will be denied is that same safe area to myself, who may not have a big group to use to keep myself safe while I'm learning or trying to teach a friend or random newguy the ropes.  In fact, by denying such an area, you're reinforcing the ability of large, well organized societies to provide extra training opportunities to their hard core members, while ensuring that those with less organization or size do not have that same "safe" area but must risk the open sea with a new ship or a newguy that they're trying to help ease into the game.

[Johny Reb]

@Destraes.... Both Danforth and Darby say what I'm thinking quite well. I would only add that most learning will happen on the open sea and in battles. Practice skirms only speed the process up. Second, the training doesn't take long in most cases. Its more about knowing commands and expectations of performance that admirals of the fleet will expect of you. Its not about endless drilling I assure you. For this reason all of the training that I participated in Potbs was for the newer player and was only rarely done with the veterans of the game. The whole purpose of our training events were so that new people could compete because believe it or not, most people were not naturals. Once you know it though, it doesn't require constant practice in order to retain and what practice is needed will be found in the day to day fights on the open ocean and that is why veterans didn't need practice skirms. Only the newbies did.

 

It simply sounds like you just don't want to be beat by people that know what they are doing. Lets keep everyone skillless so that those like you that may only have an hour at a time can compete. Thats what I hear you saying and imho I think thats pretty selfish.