Is killing MODs such a good idea?

[Koltes]

Mods allow you to have your ship customized and fitted for a specific purpose.
With mods built in this will have to be countered by have more ships of the same type but different fits. Are we going to get extended docks too then?

One of the great things about games like EVE is that you have your ship that is a base and is always the same and then make it completely custom fit the way you like to play the game. Hell there are even fitting tools available to EVE players to calculate their fits properly.

This is also one of the things that I loved about NA - you can have your ship and then change its purpose by installing or removing upgrades.

If the only reason why upgrades are going is due to dupe exploit then this is just a lame way of tacking the problem. Bug needs to be fixed end of story.

Instead of loosing upgrades they need to be more complex and have larger variations. And all needs to be craftable. Thats it


 

Edited March 11, 2017 by koltes

[DeRuyter]

Hmm I read Ink's post as they will be more like learning skills - like in WoWs or WoT. You learn skills on a specific ship to get the equivalent module effect. If they combine this with the shipbuilding changes proposed a while ago then it is new system. But I agree it would be less flexible than now with simply changing mods out. 

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I'm not wholly certain on the meaning of Ink's post. On the one hand it sounds sort of EVE-like by having you learn to use the relevant skill for the relevant vessel for the relevant modification, but I'm uncertain as to whether "In the final form you will only be able to install pumps if you learned how to use pumps more efficiently on that particular vessel" means we'll still have to install a mod or not afterwards. I can read it in two ways; that mods will disappear and that we'll unlock the skill instead which does the job, or that we'll unlock the ability to mount that actual mod. I feel as though the latter might be more likely, as it there will still be a layer of crafting and economy involved. In essence you will be rewarded for playing your prefered ships by improving their capabilities by mounting mods but removing the ability to just mount whatever mods you want from the get-go.

 

(Quoting Ink's post for others to see:

"Upgrades in their current form will be removed from the game. They will be replaced by ship knowledge or skills (naming is work in progress) which you will unlock by sailing that particular type of ship. Hard and soft caps for bonuses/improvements will be introduced as well. In the final form you will only be able to install pumps if you learned how to use pumps more efficiently on that particular vessel. But once you learned for that ship it you won't need to get pumps any more. Skills of using pumps on Cerberus will be irrelevant for a first rate and vice versa."

)

Edited March 11, 2017 by Rikard Frederiksen

[Koltes]

Yeah Ive read his post too and it made me thinking...

Thats what I mean. Why remove upgrades?. Why not have combination of skill AND upgrades?

Having just skills you are forced to sail specific setup until you grind and grind for another setup. Means less variety of ships sailed. Evert one will be just sailing one best setup, because you cant change them.

Edited March 11, 2017 by koltes

[Rikard Frederiksen]

As I said I prefered to read my latter interpretation, that it will unlock the ability to mount the modification, not that modifications will be removed completely. Which leads me to think that there will still be a degree of customisation, but you won't be able to pick up an awesome new ship and give it 'gold' modifications straight away, that you would need to earn the rights to mount those mods, and that there will be some path to doing that (hopefully not an awful 'Have leaks 500 times to unlock pumps'). Of course I could be wrong...

Edited March 11, 2017 by Rikard Frederiksen

[Powderhorn]

Without mods, 1 dura vessels become viable.

[Elric]

I was hoping officers would become the replacement for mods - and you could develop different officers to be skilled in different things.

I detest the constant changing of officer perks, and even swapping mods in and out based on 1st rate versus 4th rate PB's, crafting needs, missions and more.  We should have a learning tree/skill choice to choose which direction each officer or ship goes.  Boarding, trading, speed, turning, crew morale, broadside speed, mortar usage and more.  

If the skills are at the player level, then player weaknesses may become too apparent and impossible to overcome once your opponents know what that weakness is - so there needs to be a way of resetting whatever skill is learned - or filling in the holes.

 

[JollyRoger1516]

5 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

Without mods, 1 dura vessels become viable.

Can just be done with mods not being lost upon ship's death (returned to your upgrade hold). We already have to run two ships due to the wood type/crafting bonus difference if we add yet another factor we will sit on even more ships. That would just get out of hand now. While I like ships kitted out for a specific purpose and being very strong in their field I think the option to switch around quickly needs to stay so we don't sink even more storage space and time into this game just to be competitive (this would be yet another traveling for parts moment with no action for yet another must have ship).

[Cmdr RideZ]

Hard to tell what they have in their mind before seeing it.

The other system sounds a bit more grindy, as you have to grind skills for each ship separately.  Crafting will be less useful, but I suppose this is ok.  You need lvl50 to craft upgrades and lvl50 is a tedious grind, so kinda good if this will be gone in the future.

As those are skills, we learn those and then we have balanced PvP.  Customization would be nice, but not sure if skill based system provides that.

The new system may not be that bad at all in the end.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

I was hoping officers would become the replacement for mods - and you could develop different officers to be skilled in different things.

I detest the constant changing of officer perks, and even swapping mods in and out based on 1st rate versus 4th rate PB's, crafting needs, missions and more.  We should have a learning tree/skill choice to choose which direction each officer or ship goes.  Boarding, trading, speed, turning, crew morale, broadside speed, mortar usage and more.  

If the skills are at the player level, then player weaknesses may become too apparent and impossible to overcome once your opponents know what that weakness is - so there needs to be a way of resetting whatever skill is learned - or filling in the holes.

 

For me ship officers and the crafting of a ship should be replacement for them.  If I want to make a board fit Bucc than I need to craft it as such from ground up as one.  Not be bale to remove the mods nad make it now a combat ship.   This will get folks to have more specialized ships than just moving mods around.

Now my question is the skills per ship or for any ship of that type that you unlock.  Say I have a Cerberus and I learn a few skills/perks for that ship.  IF I make another will it have the same ones or will I have to relearn them over again for that new ship?  I think some should be locked to each ship so you have some green crew and experienced crew/ships.   Though some might be unlocked for types of ships.  Like if you play a lot of light shisp you gain certain light perks for those class ships.  This should be how you get things like Light ship master that effect all ships of that type.  So if some one rushes through the shallows ships and never reach that level buy grind like crazy in SOL they can be master of those type of ships instead.  While some one that takes there time and plays a light might master all three types of ships by time they reach RA level.

[Thonys]

the upgrades in my opinion needs to be skills for the CAPTAIN/OR OFFICER AND THE SHIP BUILDER

FOR INSTANCE POWDER MONKEY NEEDS TO BE AT THE CREW SIDE(BUY) AND NOT A UPGRADE YOU GET IN  A DROP

FOR INSTANCE A LOW SAILER GETS A GOLDEN MARINE IN A  DROP AND USES IT ON A BASIC CUTTER.(SEEMS NOT WRIGHT TO ME,)

ALL THE UPGRADES IN MY OPINION NEEDS TO BE SKILLS

 

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Thonys

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Thonys said:

the upgrades in my opinion needs to be skills for the CAPTAIN/OR OFFICER AND THE SHIP BUILDER

FOR INSTANCE POWDER MONKEY NEEDS TO BE AT THE CREW SIDE(BUY) AND NOT A UPGRADE YOU GET IN  A DROP

FOR INSTANCE A LOW SAILER GETS A GOLDEN MARINE IN A  DROP AND USES IT ON A BASIC CUTTER.(SEEMS NOT WRIGHT TO ME,)

ALL THE UPGRADES IN MY OPINION NEEDS TO BE SKILLS

 

 

Can you elaborate on that please? Specifically how are you going to positively affect the economy if everything becomes a skill or grind?

[Thonys]

in the context of the OP it has nothing to do with economy or affect grind 

so dont know what you are thinking

its all about logical game play if you ask me

 

 

Also to note:

Upgrades in their current form will be removed from the game. They will be replaced by ship knowledge or skills

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

for instance, what has powder monkeys (part of the crew) has to do with economy ?.. (i think nothing)

so the sugested patch ,it s a  good thing i believe.

the balance for that matter will be a thingy, but we don't know how it will be atm, so we have to wait and see

Edited March 11, 2017 by Thonys

[Fargo]

Mods as consumption goods would add more to economy and it wouldnt require much programming work. But i I dont really care how these boni get on the ship, if just some major balancing work would be done.

Think about what mods currently do. Depending on my ship purpose i dont have to make any decisions about my mods. They only make ships in general more powerful. This adds nothing in terms of additional gameplay to the game. OW combat ships are always the same, so are PB ships and boarding ships. Currently mods are only an annoying necessity needed to not sail with major disadvantages. "The best" mod setup is not allowed to exist to make this an interesting feature. 

E.g. i would remove boarding mods completely that encorage people to skip the combat part. A boarding ship should never be a pure boarding ship, it should be trimmed for killing the enemy crew and raking, but still capably of doing anything else. Change boarding mods to improve manouverability, acceleration rates, use of grape shot, tacking ability, etc. Then they are not boarding specific, providing more options for all type of ships. Instead of always the same very specific ships we could have more diversity inbetween, that should be the goal. If you can use your personal allround ship for multiple purposes you also dont need multiple specific ships when boni become permanent, saving time/gold without limiting gameplay options.

Sorry for offtopic.

[Wesreidau]

Without mods, but hulk/overhaul permanent ships each ship you buy can have its own experience and upgrade selections.

I buy two Privateers. One privateer I sail a lot, the other I don't sail at all. I can have all sorts of mods unlocked on the privateer I sailed a lot. The privateer I don't sail is stuck with grey mods.

I buy two privateers and sail both about equally. One privateer I mod out for gunnery. The other privateer I mod out for boarding.

These improvements endure when my ship is sunk and hulked, and I get them back when they overhaul. I become very invested in a given ship. Players attached to their pixels are players who log back in to the game.