Please Stop PB Log camping before it starts

[The Spud]

If the Danes take the port, it will be as hard for any other nation to take it back. No need in Attack/Defence balancing, its balanced in a way that its equaly hard to cap it for everybody. If Land in Port Battles will be in, we'll probably have many more ports that are hard to take because of how they are implemented. As in real life, some things are easier to Defend then others.

[JollyRoger1516]

Why do we have Port Battles, when in the end it is all about who can dump more ships infront of a port. We might aswell then just meet there, count our numbers and declare the winner...

Screening used to enable more then 25 people to help with PBs, now with the hostility system everyone has the chance to help, he just has to look on the map. We have been raising hostility at Bermuda since Thursday till Saturday, so there had been plenty of time to react.

Screening is what makes this game different from PotBS. Raising the hostility level and than teleporting to the port battle is something that ended PotBS exactly where it is now and I gotta say I'd still like to play this game in a year and not look at the ruin that people who couldn't coordinate their efforts to overcome a bigger enemy ahve demanded from the devs!

[Cmdr RideZ]

1) Hostility tug of war to 100% (and today we are yet to see this be hotly contested...and the balance of hostility generation needs some lovin)

2) The logistical exercise of landing a fleet (screen, timing, getting the fleet in), now to me this is a huge aspect of Naval Warfare (lots of pre-engagement history here)

3) The finishing blow, the port battle itself (which we all know will be mechanically reinvented soon).

 

Now from Anolytics perspective and he is someone I hold in high regard in both skill and opinion (so I am not critisizing it) he sees the process being more simply a 2 step process

(basically step 1 leads directly to step 3). 

 

Now depending on how the Dev's (and we as a player base) feel dictates the importance or not of the OP.

 

I don't think Anolytic means that exactly.

 

He means that now there is #1.

 

Anolytic wants numbers 1 and 3

You guys want numbers 2 and 3

 

1 and 3 = New system

2 and 3 = Old system

 

Also 1 ~= 2

 

 

If #2 is equally important as #1, then why to bother with the hostility?  You can just lay a huge screening net around port, and spend attackers time with tags, so they never reach the port.

 

They already kinda won your screening fleet in phase #1.  After this, there is none to challenge them to attack the port, as you lost the hostility/screening.  But there is 46h delay, so that you can get ready.  Not 46h delay, that you start to actually defend and do #1.

 

...

 

In one way, if the fleet could be teleported directly to well earned port battle...  Well, this would be exploit free, finally.  We could remove features like BR protection, that is only there because guys are exploiting the system.

 

Still, this just came in my mind.  Could have multitude of issues included.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Cmdr RideZ

[Guest]

this is simply not how the game works.

screening is the art of getting the right ships in the right battle. and counter screening the art to do the opposite.

a single ships can draw in 49 screeners if the screen overpersues (even though this is an extrem example)

 

but seriously. you dont need equal numbers at all to counter a screen. all you need is a good working counter screen. arriving at the PB spot 30 seconds before it opens is not how the region is won. i assume fighting will be needed way before the scheduled battle and that is a good thing.

 

And this is the problem - PBs will be empty yet again because defensive screening is now paramount, and as you point out screening has nothing to do with getting good fights - so effectively the only decent PvP we're getting outside of the port is because people mess up. Great.

 

Skeptical about counter-screening as well when the defender is able to hide dozens of unassailable ships inside the port who can just surge out (and be unattackable for 20-odd seconds) as soon as the enemy PB fleet is approaching. But I guess we'll see if even a single screened and defended port falls anytime soon.

[skilgan]

Why not just lock down a region for outpost teleports once hostility is raised. If you have some defence hostility teleports are still active. That way only those involved in active defence can easily support.

You can still sail there as a defender.

Add PB entry timer for logging into open world.

The above suggestion should encourage the defence of hostility, make it harder to form massive screens, and stop the login and enter pb issue.

[Kloothommel]

Maybe even after hostility is raised to 100% -> ports become contested and usable for all to enter, since there is a total breakdown of patrols and presence. That way attackers can enter port, no log out shenenigans. This would represent the attacker fleet getting ready for the assault. Duing the 2 day cooldown the defenders can screen against the attack fleet entering harbor.

 

If this screen shit continues I doubt we will see any active attack situations succeed anytime soon. Just zerging.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Kloothommel

[Snoopy]

The 48 hour window is purely a convenient game mechanic, a pause button to slow things down and prevent steamrolls, and to give the defender time to organize. It is already a buff for the defender.

The fleet that raised hostility enough to unlock the PB is the one that would have attacked the port straight away in previous versions.

 

Asking for intercept opportunities on PB day is the equivalent to asking the PB fleet to sail to the port twice. Why?

 

Preventing hostility from rising is where you can screen now.

 

I'm all for TPs on PB day.

[Preserved Killick]

If the rule is changed, it is changed.  But wasn't it stated by admin that TPing into a port battle was a bannable offense, and then they did it anyway?

[Daniboy3000]

If the rule is changed, it is changed.  But wasn't it stated by admin that TPing into a port battle was a bannable offense, and then they did it anyway?

Logging off at sea is currently not an exploit guys. 

The purpose of this thread is to find the solution to soften the effect of this without affecting the gameplay of those who don't participate in conquest.

Also remember that ports will be reset one more time before release and there are plans to reconsider the docks/outposts.

[JollyRoger1516]

The 48 hour window is purely a convenient game mechanic, a pause button to slow things down and prevent steamrolls, and to give the defender time to organize. It is already a buff for the defender.

The fleet that raised hostility enough to unlock the PB is the one that would have attacked the port straight away in previous versions.

 

Asking for intercept opportunities on PB day is the equivalent to asking the PB fleet to sail to the port twice. Why?

 

Preventing hostility from rising is where you can screen now.

 

I'm all for TPs on PB day.

That is exactly what PotBS did and it killed the game. You want easymode and in the wake of it you' d ruin the game. Are you really that selfish that you would see a game crash and burn jsut because you don't get ports gifted to you?!

 

I have many things that I would drastically change in this game especially from the last two patches but I'm not jsut gonna rush out with it just because it effects me personally. Do you think I enjoy sailing for bloody hours just to craft one useful ship? Hell no. But I'm currently trying to make it work and if it then doesn't work out I will sit here and call for balance changes.

The port battle 'exploit/teleport' has now been tested it took nearly 100 ships screening to stop 3 ships from joining - this is a waste of time and renders port battles useless. As soon as the first fleet has lsot all ships the enemy will only field grey ships and the 25vs25 skill you all tlak about will be gone faster then you or us an complain about it again. Screening is as much an option for you as for us and seeing 100 ships of 3 nations sitting at a port for 2-4 hours wasting their time on the RvR scale(screening itself is fun but as soon as people don't ahve to reach the port it will die) will destroy this game - why should anyone ever bother to show up again?! And why should a nation ever play with anybody but their top 25 players - what happens to the rest of the playerbase? Do they ahve to sit around and watch other people play - enjoy playing this game at a every nation has only 25 viable players level but enjoy it on your own! The Australians already got fucked over by this patch - you guys are promoting limiting the game even more - and all just for your personal benefit instead of the interest of the game and its entire playerbase!!!

[The Spud]

Why can't we like combine the current conquest system and bring part of the flag system back in the game?

 

The flag system had many flaws, but if you kinda combine the hostility raising + making it only possible to buy a flag if you have a set amount of hostility points to you name + removing some stuff like switching ships around between nations/players and entering a port with the flag as a smuggler.You could have the best parts of both mechanics.

 

Should be slightly more balanced towards the attackers, like longer period to plant the flag or something or make it possible to plant at one of the other regional ports, as the PB is a seperate instance anyway, could plant at port B and still play the PB like its at port A.

 

Would be removing the log out problem we have, and probably bring back none of the flag problems.

Edited October 26, 2016 by The Spud

[Kloothommel]

and all just for your personal benefit instead of the interest of the game and its entire playerbase!!!

 

And you get to decide that?

**LOL**

[Chimera]

And this is the problem - PBs will be empty yet again because defensive screening is now paramount, and as you point out screening has nothing to do with getting good fights - so effectively the only decent PvP we're getting outside of the port is because people mess up. Great.

 

Skeptical about counter-screening as well when the defender is able to hide dozens of unassailable ships inside the port who can just surge out (and be unattackable for 20-odd seconds) as soon as the enemy PB fleet is approaching. But I guess we'll see if even a single screened and defended port falls anytime soon.

 

sorry dont agree. if you do a good enough job its not empty. and i have seen awesome screening battles after the patch already. i think 25v25 PB are some of the most boring battles we have in game

[Kloothommel]

sorry dont agree. if you do a good enough job its not empty. and i have seen awesome screening battles after the patch already. i think 25v25 PB are some of the most boring battles we have in game

 

The good enough job = being zerg.

 

I personally find PB's pure awesome. best fun, HONEST fun. True test of skill. Not of numbers.

[Snoopy]

That is exactly what PotBS did and it killed the game. You want easymode and in the wake of it you' d ruin the game. Are you really that selfish that you would see a game crash and burn jsut because you don't get ports gifted to you?!

 

I have many things that I would drastically change in this game especially from the last two patches but I'm not jsut gonna rush out with it just because it effects me personally. Do you think I enjoy sailing for bloody hours just to craft one useful ship? Hell no. But I'm currently trying to make it work and if it then doesn't work out I will sit here and call for balance changes.

The port battle 'exploit/teleport' has now been tested it took nearly 100 ships screening to stop 3 ships from joining - this is a waste of time and renders port battles useless. As soon as the first fleet has lsot all ships the enemy will only field grey ships and the 25vs25 skill you all tlak about will be gone faster then you or us an complain about it again. Screening is as much an option for you as for us and seeing 100 ships of 3 nations sitting at a port for 2-4 hours wasting their time on the RvR scale(screening itself is fun but as soon as people don't ahve to reach the port it will die) will destroy this game - why should anyone ever bother to show up again?! And why should a nation ever play with anybody but their top 25 players - what happens to the rest of the playerbase? Do they ahve to sit around and watch other people play - enjoy playing this game at a every nation has only 25 viable players level but enjoy it on your own! The Australians already got fucked over by this patch - you guys are promoting limiting the game even more - and all just for your personal benefit instead of the interest of the game and its entire playerbase!!!

 

My personal benefit?

Where do I benefit from what you or me wrote? You rage at the wrong thing Jolly

 

You say that 100 people screening is "useless" and not fun. Well, the PB TP would solve that. Nobody would screen the actual PB.

 

Look at it this way: A scheduled PB is the same thing as a planted flag. You are too late and now have to face the enemy in battle (or not, and forfeit the port). The new system even gives you a 46 hour break to get people together rather than the endless empty PBs.

Getting a chance to screen with today's mechanic would be equivalent to the entire PB fleet teleporting home after planting the flag, and then sail back again.

It would be better to get rid of that part, and one of the ways to do it would be to have PBs start from a lobby instead OW. This also removes any incentive for cheesy PB logout screen camping.

I want to reduce time spent on the non-fun parts of the game. Not getting into the PB you had worked for hard is not fun. Staying logged out because you are afraid of not getting in is not fun. Having disproportionate amounts of people sitting around and screen is not fun (to me anyway).

It looks a lot more appealing to me to have PvP as part of the hostility generation in the first place. Your 100 people would have been able to suppress the PB, screening in that sense would work, and hopefully, a lot more smaller PvP engagements will have been generated for everyone to enjoy.

[Kloothommel]

My personal benefit?

Where do I benefit from what you or me wrote? You rage at the wrong thing Jolly

 

You say that 100 people screening is "useless" and not fun. Well, the PB TP would solve that. Nobody would screen the actual PB.

 

Look at it this way: A scheduled PB is the same thing as a planted flag. You are too late and now have to face the enemy in battle (or not, and forfeit the port). The new system even gives you a 46 hour break to get people together rather than the endless empty PBs.

Getting a chance to screen with today's mechanic would be equivalent to the entire PB fleet teleporting home after planting the flag, and then sail back again.

It would be better to get rid of that part, and one of the ways to do it would be to have PBs start from a lobby instead OW. This also removes any incentive for cheesy PB logout screen camping.

I want to reduce time spent on the non-fun parts of the game. Not getting into the PB you had worked for hard is not fun. Staying logged out because you are afraid of not getting in is not fun. Having disproportionate amounts of people sitting around and screen is not fun (to me anyway).

It looks a lot more appealing to me to have PvP as part of the hostility generation in the first place. Your 100 people would have been able to suppress the PB, screening in that sense would work, and hopefully, a lot more smaller PvP engagements will have been generated for everyone to enjoy.

All of this!

[Wesreidau]

Over the course of a twenty-four hour day I see no possible way to prevent hostility from reaching 100%.

 

Scrambling log-in positions by two minute's sail in a random direction will still allow you to pre-position a fleet, logged off, at a distant port like Bermuda. Log in your screeners with a few bait lineships first. You say a few defenders can tag a 1st rate fleet and keep it from reaching the fight? A few offensive screeners can do the same thing. Then follow up with your line ships.

 

If the devs really wanted to guarantee you'd get into the port battles you've "earned", they'd let ships join PB's from the Missions tab and we'd ready up for them based on earned hostility. Then we'd never see fleets of 1st rates sailing for enemy harbors on open water. What fun. But at least its a fair 25v25, right? That's all you want, artificially "fair" fights. Hell, lets just stay in harbor and do Ship Duels.

 

What is this, World of Tanks?

[Chimera]

Over the course of a twenty-four hour day I see no possible way to prevent hostility from reaching 100%.

 

Scrambling log-in positions by two minute's sail in a random direction will still allow you to pre-position a fleet, logged off, at a distant port like Bermuda. Log in your screeners with a few bait lineships first. You say a few defenders can tag a 1st rate fleet and keep it from reaching the fight? A few offensive screeners can do the same thing. Then follow up with your line ships.

 

If the devs really wanted to guarantee you'd get into the port battles you've "earned", they'd let ships join PB's from the Missions tab and we'd ready up for them based on earned hostility. Then we'd never see fleets of 1st rates sailing for enemy harbors on open water. What fun. But at least its a fair 25v25, right? That's all you want, artificially "fair" fights. Hell, lets just stay in harbor and do Ship Duels.

 

What is this, World of Tanks?

Exactly what i think and Said before. A lot of players seem to favor an artificially balanced arena style combat game. I would prefer shooting guns in the open world (well knowing that's not possible). Do a little PVE fleet missions, some ganking in between And a lot of arena combat.... That's not the direction I would want this game to develop into.

[JollyRoger1516]

And you get to decide that?

**LOL**

I can back my statements up with evidence, logic and past gaming experience - you jsut blurt out soem random lies with no backing and statements with no use! I get to decide that jsut as anybody else who can partake in a sensible discussion. Just saying no and declaring everything even proven stuff as false isnt a sensible discussion so you don't get to decide! You represent the Danish nation but I gotta say you do a horrible job of keeping the game in your itnerest and not your personal advantage!

[Guest]

So, apart from Bermuda, has there actually been any 25v25 PBs yet? It's been almost a week after all.

[Chimera]

Yes. GB vs. Spain 4th rate battle

[Kloothommel]

I guess we see 2 camps emerging. 

 

1: Open world all the way, ganking and zerging all the way.

2: instanced PB where your participation in aggrolevels decide your entrance, not howmany players you have in a nation.

 

Gues swhat is balanced and fair to nations that aren't the Brittish zerg. And guess who will proably speak against it, unless they see the bigger picture.

[Guest]

Well, it doesn't have to either or, personally I'm just worried that we will go from having nearly only empty PBs to only having 1 PB per nation per week (if even that...) while OW PvP is the only option the rest of the week. If that's gonna be the case, I'd rather opt for having some lossless Trafalgar battles to get my PB fix. And it seems like the devs would be wasting a whole lot of time on land in port battles if it's only ever going to be enjoyed by 25 guys once a week.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Guest

[Chimera]

I guess we see 2 camps emerging. 

 

1: Open world all the way, ganking and zerging all the way.

2: instanced PB where your participation in aggrolevels decide your entrance, not howmany players you have in a nation.

 

Gues swhat is balanced and fair to nations that aren't the Brittish zerg. And guess who will proably speak against it, unless they see the bigger picture.

You mean like the "Spanish Zerg" managend to defend their last port in southern Cuba by screening away the tiny British nation in a couple of nice open world battles?

The perfect balance you will find in arena combat style games were matchmaking makes sure you always get a mirror match. That's just not the game I want to play regardless wether I play for the high pop nation or not

[JollyRoger1516]

I guess we see 2 camps emerging. 

 

1: Open world all the way, ganking and zerging all the way.

2: instanced PB where your participation in aggrolevels decide your entrance, not howmany players you have in a nation.

 

Gues swhat is balanced and fair to nations that aren't the Brittish zerg. And guess who will proably speak against it, unless they see the bigger picture.

YOu are ignoring simple facts here. The Spanish, Danish, Swedish and French alliance has about the same amount of players as US, Dutch and Britain - your failure to pool those resources shoudn't be our problem - it is yours and it is yours to deal with!!! Throwing the Zerging aword around is very easy but never not even once have you actually been able to back that up!

In addition while I could udnerstand arguing that 25 vs. 25 would guarentee balance you simply fail to deliver ANY solution as to what the rest of the playerbase is supposed to do instead of boring their tits off!!!

Edited October 26, 2016 by JollyRoger1516