Proposal for more Open World Action

[z4ys]

I try to keep it short. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

Take away Cash for damage.
Money should be earned through selling prize ships or through trading (main part). Furthermore as National through Admiralty payment. That means for every day at sea (green zone doesn't count) the player get a small amount of cash. Staying in port modifies it with x0.1

• Selling AI ships should be modified with x0.5 or lower (only on pvp server)
• Selling player crafted ships to AI market should modified with x3 or higher.
• Participating in a port battle gives a fix amount of cash. This should be modified by overall BR difference between the two fighting parties to prevent abuse.(small difference means more cash

What are the benefits:

• More players at OW = more potential pvp + less time requirement to find a fight.
• Abuse like dmg farming isn't possible because someone has to lose his ship.
• Promoting of PvP OW fights.
• Ganking doesn't make sense because sharing one prizeship through 3 or more people isn't worth a fight especially when he fights back.
• Promotes small ships they are easy to maintain.
• Limiting big ships (Sols)their cost are always higher then the prize money. That gives these kind of ships a strategic factor. Power when power is needed no matter the costs.

 

Feel free to criticise or enhance this suggestion

Edited September 13, 2016 by z4ys

[Æthlstan]

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether.

Problem solved.

[Anolytic]

I try to keep it short. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

 

*everything else*

I totally agree.

EDIT:

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether.

Problem solved.

You're not really helping this topic by talking about something completely different from the proposal at hand. And the 5 minute timer without some sort of expanding join circle to modify join distance would introduce lots of new issues that we finally got rid of. The combat system does need some tweaking, but your post is rather unspecific.

[z4ys]

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether.

Problem solved.

 To be honest. I dont support people who stay in port and wait till someone crys for help. Go out find yourself a fight.

[Ragor]

A problem I see:

Traders will be hunted down.

Even on a PvP server, there a many players (mostly lone wolves which are new in the game) which focus on trading and are not interested in ganking (no matter on which end) or large PvP engagements, they want only there trading and crafting and some occasional 1on1 or at least fair PvP battles.

When this quite significant but silent player group gets systemically harvested, than the community will starve itself regarding new recruitment materials and it might hurt the game on the long run.

"Then these players are on the wrong server."

Are you sure? How did you spent your first two weeks?

 

Just a thought though, feel free to disagree.

 

And I am aware, that many vet players, especially forum active ones, deny to see that the majority of the player base never visited the forums or are active in chat.

They just play silent for themselves at first and vanish when the games becomes pointless for them.

Not even a chance for them to get deeper into the game then and maybe get more involved into the PvP and maybe join a clan.

That's why I am always in favour of the defensive players to keep them.

 

Again, just a thought.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Ragor

[z4ys]

A problem I see:

Traders will be hunted down.

Even on a PvP server, there a many players (mostly lone wolves which are new in the game) which focus on trading and are not interested in ganking (no matter on which end) or large PvP engagements, they want only there trading and crafting and some occasional 1on1 or at least fair PvP battles.

Are you sure? How did you spent your first two weeks?

 

I play most of the time solo. Hunting player frigates and especially player traders. So they are still hunted. But this is an mmo and not a singleplayer. When more players are out in the OW they can protect each other that makes finding solo traders harder. At the moment most people just stay in port and waits till someone crys for help (like the post has showen above). I would love to see *Players at OW* instead of *players Online*

In my opinion the issue is that players like to stay in port instead sailing around. With everyone sailing around so called ganking is much harder because there will be much more friendly players around who can support each other even if they are not in ts. The advantage of the so called gankers is that they decided to stay outside and not in port.

 

I spend my first 2 weeks exploring the coastline next to my capital raiding Ai traders. Till I set sail to an enemy territory to raid player traders.

 

 

And I am aware, that many vet players, especially forum active ones, deny to see that the majority of the player base never visited the forums or are active in chat.

They just play silent for themselves at first and vanish when the games becomes for the pointless.

Not even a chance for them to get deeper into the game then and maybe get more involved into the PvP and join a clan.

That's why I am always in favour of the defensive players to keep them.

 

They should raise their voice. Nothing changes if everyone stay calm. The game is in EA because thing are supposed to change.

[Ragor]

(...)

 

I spend my first 2 weeks exploring the coastline next to my capital raiding Ai traders. Till I set sail to an enemy territory to raid player traders.

 

 

 

They should raise their voice. Nothing changes if everyone stay calm. The game is in EA because thing are supposed to change.

 

As I did. But since the social skill perk was removed and the pirates fleets are blockading national capital ports, it is during prime time not possible anymore for these players.

 

 

And yes, they should raise their voice. But they won't, no matter what you tell them.

Simply check how many times NA got sold (steam charts) and compare this number with the forum accounts (less than 10% ever made an account) and of these accounts... check how many are active.

-> It is just a small group with a very loud voice which do totally deny to understand, that there personal fun in games might not be the same like it is for other players.

These loud voices tailor all their suggestions for their core group and silence all other opinions by denouncing them.

I'm telling BS? Just yourself, how many posters have how few posts and which group has the most active posters and push polls, opinions and therefor gamedesign decisions.

Final argument which always works is 'This is a PvP game, you are on the wrong server' or 'L2P'. (just less polite phrased, polemics ftw)

Welcome to the internet.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Ragor

[z4ys]

We need a mechanic that promotes OW. People are lazy. What I have seen so far is that one poor guy is sailing outside gets attacked and 10 other people leave port because they just waited that this happened.(that was common as we had longer join timers and no can't enter battle timer) that wasn't fun either.

The problem is not the join timer or the so called gankers or the lone guy. The problem is made by the guys in port.

I just want to give an example that I encountered a few days ago.

I was raiding pirate player traders between tortue and arkwood with a friend. At this time there were 2 port battles in at area. So a huge pirate screening fleet was in that area too. We spotted a lone trader snow and gave chase. After a short time he running we chasing we spotted a part of the screening fleet. They turned and helped the trader by protecting him.

So what's the message of it? Not the people in port saved the guy. The people sailing around saved him.

It's much easier to find a fight when everyone is sailing around outside. Isn't waiting in port for a fight in front of a port boring? I would leave the game if I had to look at the harbour screen all the time too.

We need a mechanic that forces people into the ow and promotes pvp fights over pve on a pvp server.

The upcoming hostile mechanic is a good step but in my opinion not enough to solve the problem. Because pve farming is still more effective as pvp on a pvp server.

Edited September 13, 2016 by z4ys

[E.P. Juel]

First of all, I agree that something needs to be done so players will leave port and actually go seek fights.

Im not sure if its going to be implemented this patch, but the plan is to make zones around regions where PvP and PvE will affect the stability in the region and lead to PB's.

 

If you were able to join either small or large battle from the sea in your ship and it would require you to lower sails and wait 2 minuts like when using teleport, then why not? I would do it regardless of the risk of losing another dura when entering OW again. Just to get the action. If I have been sailing around for 40 minuts without seeing a player (lets say its in the middle of the night) then I would open a menu in the top left corner, where I can join small/large battle. In this scenario I imagine some sailors who are bored like myself, would use this opportunity and it will lead to fight 

 

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether.

Problem solved.

 

Many people wants it to be both lower or higher than the current. Why not make a vote ingame? Or at least test something new. 

Knowing the fact that captains can teleport to all free ports around the map, the 2 minut timer is fair enough, because they can jump around and bash people without risk 2 minuts away from port. And who havent tried going to a port, against the wind, then 1 pirate spawns and 5 follows. Then you are fucked, becasue even when turning back with the wind, something faster will catch you and their friends will be able to join, but non of your friends will because of the 2 minut damn timer!

 

I would like to test the following: The amount of time it takes for one to join battle after leaving port for instance is currenly 2 minuts. What if we make it 5-10 minuts(depends on where the player who comes to port teleport from) and then make the fight open for 5 minuts. This means that only people in the local area will be able to join the fight in time, and exclude those waiting in port or TP'ing to intercept 2 minuts from port. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by E.P. Juel

[ajffighter86]

Here's a suggestion, and apologies because after editing, my post isn't so short-winded.

 

Scrap the battle timer argument. Time is irrelevant when the overall problem is lack of players wanting anything to do with each other and no incentive to sail together, only to spam agonizing pleas for help when suddenly it wasn't such a great idea to be out on a trader alone.

 

Instead:

 

Have players be able to generate their own escort missions that PROMOTE sailing together.

 

For example: I need to run a shipment of oak logs from Wilmington to St. Marys. I know it's pretty darn foolish to try to do this on my own with pirates/danes/swedes/French/clowns/hobos/IRS agents/everyone's cousin/beggars coming out of Sunbury to gank raid traders.

 

I'll create a group. Join my group and it'll generate an escort mission, and you'll get a calculated number of XP points based on distance/risk and gold (which I, the trader, has to furnish out of my own pockets), to motivate players to accept this mission and sail along. Typically this line of work will attract newer players, and they don't have much to lose and it would require perhaps less effort for the rewards, provided we don't get attacked. And if we do get attacked, well, PVP for everyone. Maybe the game could be coded to throw in a chance for RNG rewards upon successful completion of the trip for all players involved. "Nice, I got Essex paint for helping z4ys move a shipment of gold coins." -- Something like that. The point is that you have to make the rewards interesting enough where players are motivated to work together.

 

Too hard to implement? Maybe, but it makes more sense than sending an 18th century text-message in nation chat, with the coordinates of the battle, for everyone and their uncle to form a counter fleet that sails for (time compressed) days to join a battle that lasts 1.5 hours in real time, and let's be honest, there really isn't much incentive to help form a hunting party anyway. The most you'll get is a 'thank you' until the next time that trader goes out and gets himself into another jam. No one likes to sail out to sea only to chase an enemy gank fleet for an hour and have that enemy escape, and have nothing to show for it. If I had a dollar for every time the Danish or pirates led the Americans on a wild goose chase out of Sunbury, I could actually afford to buy a ship in Charleston. Something needs to be done to incentivize players to help each other *BEFORE* it gets to that point. No need to worry about battle timers because you'd already be sailing together as a group, and there's a chance you might get something really nice for your time. There's no reason we shouldn't see the trade-chat window EXPLODING with opportunities for players to help each other with trader runs, but we need a game mechanic that encourages it.

 

Point is: I would LOVE to see missions that actually PROMOTE players sailing together, rather than typical 'go sail here and sink the robot' missions that aren't really worthy of a PVP server. The biggest issue with this suggestion is that you actually have to make these types of human-interaction missions more appealing (rewarding) than grinding admiralty orders.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great thread, we need more suggestions that actually promote human-human gameplay rather than human versus robots AKA 'EZ Money.' Nothing sadder than seeing people on a PVP server sitting in ports or hiding in missions grinding money and XP. The open world would feel much more 'alive' without so much of the PVE content which distracts players from interacting with other players, but again, the issue is that it simply isn't rewarding enough in comparison, to work closely with other players (HUMANS!) when it is far easier to take advantage of the PVE opportunities.

Edited September 13, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Kaaru62]

its been said a few times from the devs that cash-for-damage is only for testing and not a permanent feature. they need for us to have enough cash to build / buy stuff so it can be tested. short range missions, freetown outposts, AI cruising past ports is all there to test. about the only thing you can count on being permanent are graphics. 

 

the pro-gank setup is most unfortunate and very frustrating, but is needed. i just hope it doesn't take too long for them to gather the data they need and change things.

[Æthlstan]

 To be honest. I dont support people who stay in port and wait till someone crys for help. Go out find yourself a fight.

 

1) No fights to be found

 

2) I am a solo player who is usually sailing around when there are things to sail to do, and in port when there is things in port that need doing. It could be said that I enjoy this game to its fullest potential rather than pretending I am back in the navy again.

 

3) I can be sailing within reasonable distance of someone and be unable to join the battle and help due to the timer. I can watch people get tagged and be unable to join an help due to the timer. This is entirely unrealistic, entirely unenjoyable gameplay, prevents teamwork, encourages people to stay in port, and therefore makes it much harder for solo hunters like me to find targets, because I avoid capitals and freetowns and try to hunt the trade routes. 

 

 

Trade routes that are empty because of the reasons listed above, because most traders on this game trade without an escort, because being an escort is boring, and now, even if you sail in sight of people from your nation, they cannot reach you in time. Trading is already a time sink, it is now unrealistically risky, as if I can see you I could probably get to you in time to help, or you could sail towards me and I could intercept your pursuer. So you aren't safe sailing in the vicinity of allies because they simply will not be able to help 9 times out of 10. 

 

 

 

Your ideas will not help encourage PvP

Taking cash away for damage could potentially help encourage PvP, but only if you take it away from NPC fights. If you increase the rewards for damage for PvP fights, people will be more encouraged to look for fights instead of doing missions. Damage farming is now a lot harder to do since the pirates cant attack each other anymore, and most people you are friends with now are going to be allies with you.

 

1. Reducing the prize money for AI ships will only exacerbate the toxic ganking behavior we have now, which was made worse when AI ships were made uncapturable. Instead of promoting PvP, it promoted unrealistic 5v1 farmville tactics. This suggestion will only make that more common. Its already the only "PvP"(if it can be called such) I see now adays. With even more toxic behavior, we will see even more player loss, which will lower the amounts of actual, challenging, interesting PvP fights, the exact opposite effect you say it will have

 

2. This will inflate the already ridiculous prices for ships in all nations today. Reducing PvP yet again, as people have to pour more RL time into the game to get another ship.

 

3. As this relates to port battles it has no effect on OW PvP

 

 

I reiterate: 

 

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether. 

Problem solved. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Æthlstan

[E.P. Juel]

 

 

3) I can be sailing within reasonable distance of someone and be unable to join the battle and help due to the timer. I can watch people get tagged and be unable to join an help due to the timer. This is entirely unrealistic, entirely unenjoyable gameplay, prevents teamwork, encourages people to stay in port, and therefore makes it much harder for solo hunters like me to find targets, because I avoid capitals and freetowns and try to hunt the trade routes. 

 

 

This! I experience this so often it hurts. Then you can stay outthere with 3 other mates and look at a closed battle, 4 vs 1.... Even when sailing with mates, I can go check on the other side of the isle, and they see someone, I go there but end up waiting for 30-45 minuts until the match is over. The current timer now exclude everyone. I think a tweak could be made; e.g. if you aren't able to join battles untill after 10 minuts after leaving port. This would mean that much more ppl would not sit and wait for something to happen or someone to intercept at some far away outpost and sailors in the local area are able to join. This would prevent "jump-gankers" who just jump from outpost to outpost attacking ppl going into ports. 

 

There is a overload of carebares in this game, who does not want to risk being counterganked when they gank in  enemy waters, even though it would only even the odds and make better fights. 

 

Fleet battles should be encouraged by design, as of now it is not! And the timer has everything to do with this issue. Only ganking- carebears are saying it has nothing to do with the timer

[fox2run]

More people would be on OW if we went back to 5 minute timers as a stopgap measure or, if we fixed the broken combat system altogether.

Problem solved.

 

We had 4 times the player base back then. Please listen to this man!!

[z4ys]

We had 4 times the player base back then. Please listen to this man!!

Wasnt the game released as EA at this time?

[Fuzzyhead12]

A problem I see:

Traders will be hunted down.

Even on a PvP server, there a many players (mostly lone wolves which are new in the game) which focus on trading and are not interested in ganking (no matter on which end) or large PvP engagements, they want only there trading and crafting and some occasional 1on1 or at least fair PvP battles.

When this quite significant but silent player group gets systemically harvested, than the community will starve itself regarding new recruitment materials and it might hurt the game on the long run.

"Then these players are on the wrong server."

Are you sure? How did you spent your first two weeks?

 

Just a thought though, feel free to disagree.

 

And I am aware, that many vet players, especially forum active ones, deny to see that the majority of the player base never visited the forums or are active in chat.

They just play silent for themselves at first and vanish when the games becomes pointless for them.

Not even a chance for them to get deeper into the game then and maybe get more involved into the PvP and maybe join a clan.

That's why I am always in favour of the defensive players to keep them.

 

Again, just a thought.

 

it is a fair point. But otherwise, a trader is economical an important target, also on military level a very important target. Being in a tradership gives you huge fighting disadbantages, your ship is mostime slower and lessarmed then the attacking ship. But since you can harvest every shipbuilding resources around your nationhub, you dont need to worry about pirates or enemy navies much, untill the next mapreset, cause the resourceslocations will be then were they have been in RL to that time welcome to the new ironwar.

 

to OP, these suggestions are more a summery of what devs said they will change in the next couple of months, so its not a suggestion its actually what the devs said.

 

money for Damage will be gone, but ships will be loaded with random loot. 

 

Boarding will change completly, no more tic tac toe game. it will be far more complex, with moving units, but nobody knows if its RTS or 1st/3rdperson.

 

A diffrent way to make PVP happens more is making AI traders relevant for a Nation, basicly let em trade with real resources, if ship gets sunk the resource is lost, Traderoutes will be then a very nice Military target in a economy war these routes need to be protected, or attacked, otherwise you will run out of ships. Balancing nations will be a challange, also you need to limit the amount of NPC ships or the sever will go boom at some point, also the NPCs need their own assets (gold) and need to have a certain Respawning time.

 

so we can have PVP fo those who want it with huge rewards and huge inpact on the war effort, also its a nice target for pyrates aswell.

 

additional, with the implementation of Accleration based turning high rated ships will loose their "god"-status basicly its a turnrate nerf depending on the mass of a ship. so PVP and non PVP oriented players will need to focus on smaller ships to be effectivly in combat, that however opens up more gameplay changes, like modified ships aka pyrate mods, new trader and slaveships who can be modified into a gunship of corse you need to pay amor and and cargo for guns, or something else, since pyrates will most likly loose their ability to craft highrated ships and the ability to capture ports with the next pyrate patch. All these thing alredy promote more PVP on smaller vessels,

 

then we get additional cost for 1strates, like L ocean eqipeed with a winecellar that holds 1000 bottles of chardonnay, or a victory amor buffed with tea XD and so on.

 

so yes Big ships will be rare in OW soon™