Fleets

[Hethwill]

Affirmative! Fleets only for trader ships!

 

... ffs.... okay ... but only when hauling more than 5000 tons of cargo...

 

 

( historically, as an average, a state owned convoy of 6 west indiamans would be escorted by a couple 32/38 cruiser frigates, so you want me to believe a simple coal hauler would have a heavy frigate as an escort ? right... )

[Guest]

What happens there is, in my epic experience, you take the trade ship in 5minutes, then have to spend the next 40 battling the freakin AI.

Or the poor merchant will be able to leave the battle in order to bring his cargo safe and sound to its destination while his hired warships still fighting the enemy.

 

Good for the merchant. Bad for the gankers.

 

How would you decide if you belong to a trader clan?

 

( historically, as an average, a state owned convoy of 6 west indiamans would be escorted by a couple 32/38 cruiser frigates, so you want me to believe a simple coal hauler would have a heavy frigate as an escort ? right... )

You know not everything in this game could be historically adapated. Everything is just a compromise

And in history it wouldn't need a ganking squad of e.g. five heavy frigates or SOLs in order to attack a coal hauler

Edited July 4, 2016 by Guest

[Hethwill]

How is 1 Lynx getting on a trader brig a gank ?

 

How is a Snake jumping a LGV or a Indiaman a gank ?

 

 

Yes seems the fleets must be shown wrong by actually doing the "ganks" and let slip the pirates in groups of sloops instead of solo hunts. Then we all can ask for 5 ships fleets just because..... (?!?!!!!)

[Cpt Blackthorne]

Yer perspicacity be a bit underwelming.

Pre patch 5-1 gank. Post Patch 15-3 gank.   HOW exactly is that better?

 

It is certainly better for the gankee's nation, as it ties up a hell of a lot more enemy allowing for a safer PB on the other side of the map against said nation. (I can write big too)

 

Also Id like to point out that fleets are the most detrimental wot to new players!  Since low ranked members can't crew a ship that is big enough to defend themselves, the new player is at the biggest disadvantage! =oO 

 

I thought the devs were trying to make the game newb-friendly?

 

in conclusion:

1. Fleets hurt new players the most.
2. Fleets turn a PVP game into a PVE game.
3. Fleets do nothing to stop ganking.

#NoFleets!

1. Don't pretend you care about the newbs, because if you did, y'all wouldn't be ganking them all day long making them quit the game.

2. I see more PvP now than before, so if the gankers turn it into a PvE game then maybe they are the ones who should quit rather than newbs.

3. It has not prevented ganking and II would imagine it shouldn't. So this would negate your #2 (out of obviousness). It sure does tie up a bunch more gankers tho.

[The Spud]

How a lone hunting pirate can be called a ganker ?

 

Well we could argue what a gank is, but I would consider a gank a fight where one side chooses to attack a significantly weaker opponent.

With the fleet one could basicaly be a gank squad on his own...

[Hethwill]

Pirate Jesus said once when sitting on the outside parlour at the Wailing Waitress tavern in La Tortue:

 

- "Listen carefully brethren for I shall say this only once and many of those that will want to crucify you shall deny it. A Trader has no rank !"

[manuva85]

How a lone hunting pirate can be called a ganker ?

Don't try using logic to butthurt...

 

I'm going to say it for a bazylion time... Ai in any form is butchering pvp possibilities... they are not helping ...

#NoFleets

[Pagan Pete]

1. Don't pretend you care about the newbs, because if you did, y'all wouldn't be ganking them all day long making them quit the game.

2. I see more PvP now than before, so if the gankers turn it into a PvE game then maybe they are the ones who should quit rather than newbs.

3. It has not prevented ganking and II would imagine it shouldn't. So this would negate your #2 (out of obviousness). It sure does tie up a bunch more gankers tho.

 

Counterpoints:

1. The propaganda that I, Pagan Pete spend all day noobhunting is  FALSE. The majority of my thefts AND combat is against established players. The motivation for the Anti-Pete talk is… I have absolutely humiliated so many 5th rate captains in my privateer, that they feel the need to sully my infamous name. I EARNEd my infamy! -)-----
2. You see more PVP now due to the spike in online players… who are investigating the new content. There is no predicting (scientifically) how many of them will stay. Now when a 1-1 becomes a 3-3, and 2/3 of the ships are AI… It becomes 66% PVE and 33% PVP… PVP play would require a minimum of 51% PVP to qualify.
3. I Never, ever, said fleets prevent Ganks. Fleets DO NOTHING to prevent ganging. I believe i were very, VERY clear on that. As for it tying up Gankers. No. Gankers just get a fleet of their own and the net result is zero effect on Ganking or Ganking numbers, seeing as ALL sides use them. The effect on port battles (besides being not what the debs intended) is negligible. ADDITIONALLY (As i already stated, FFS) Newbies are at the most vulnerable, as the cannot field a fleet that can protect them.

 

There. Are we clear yet?

[Paint]

#Yesfleets

I enjoy bigger battles. So i quiet like em. Plus after about a week people who use 1 Renomee and 2 in Fleet will have no money left so yeah.

Also 5-1 vs 15-3 makes no difference. You´re getting sunk anyways unless you´re in a rattle or a Lynx.

[Paint]

 It becomes 66% PVE and 33% PVP… PVP play would require a minimum of 51% PVP to qualify

Argument makes 0 Sense to me..

[Skully]

How a lone hunting pirate can be called a ganker ?

Not entirely alone, but a great gank nonetheless.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/267218287320211477/31F3023CBF0D39CE06EED3A4061027D2455EA6B7/

[Pagan Pete]

Argument makes 0 Sense to me..

 

That is because ye be bad at math! 

[Pagan Pete]

#Yesfleets

I enjoy bigger battles. So i quiet like em. Plus after about a week people who use 1 Renomee and 2 in Fleet will have no money left so yeah.

Also 5-1 vs 15-3 makes no difference. You´re getting sunk anyways unless you´re in a rattle or a Lynx.

I see you have a money problem. Most of us don't. We are rich beyond what we can spend! 

Perhaps professional Pyrates, like myself,  or professional Gankers, like King O Crowns, don't get sunk as often. 

If i were in need of a crutch, I cold run fleets for months at a time and never be bankrupted by it.   

Could you imagine a Pete-Fleet?  The Horror!!!

But, I prefer to steal me ships man to man, like a proper pyrate! 

[Khendon]

As a Hethwill were saying;

"Fleets turn a 1-on-1 into a 3-on-3, which is 66% PVE."

 

 I that what we want? PVE?

i also say remove the fleets. attacked an LGV today with a frigate and a 3rd rate in his fleet....we were two frigates...what are we to do with that. combined with the coward perk he used after cutting behind his frig.....un-killable. even if we did get through his protectors. this game should be about players fighting players, not players machete-ing through other players dumb minions. 

 

naval action does not need few players with commanded ships. naval action needs more reasons for players to undock and get out to sea. looking for bottles, chasing the urca gold, searching for pagan petes buried treasure. hunting white beard the villainous pirate queen. 

[The Spud]

i also say remove the fleets. attacked an LGV today with a frigate and a 3rd rate in his fleet....we were two frigates...what are we to do with that. combined with the coward perk he used after cutting behind his frig.....un-killable. even if we did get through his protectors. this game should be about players fighting players, not players machete-ing through other players dumb minions. 

 

naval action does not need few players with commanded ships. naval action needs more reasons for players to undock and get out to sea. looking for bottles, chasing the urca gold, searching for pagan petes buried treasure. hunting white beard the villainous pirate queen. 

 

On the same note, if you are in two frigs and he is in a lone LGV, what is he to do about you attacking him? He's putting out a ton of gold in crew in his 3rd rate and a frigate as AI fleet. If you can't take him on you shouldn't attack him. As a trader even in a LGV he is vulnerable, so good for him he chose to run a fleet to protect him from people raiding trade lines. If you would have been with a little more or bigger ships you could have taken him...

[karotte]

On the same note, if you are in two frigs and he is in a lone LGV, what is he to do about you attacking him? He's putting out a ton of gold in crew in his 3rd rate and a frigate as AI fleet. If you can't take him on you shouldn't attack him. As a trader even in a LGV he is vulnerable, so good for him he chose to run a fleet to protect him from people raiding trade lines. If you would have been with a little more or bigger ships you could have taken him...

Bigger Ships will not be able to follow the LGV ... see the point? Even Fleets not impacts OW Speed. So even if you bring a 3rd rate to fight the fleet, you will not catch up on ow...

A solution will be that you can fight with your escort (Biggest ship in Fleet). Also your ow Speed depends on the slowest ship. If you lose, your goods are handed over to the winner.  So only 1 on 1 ...

Fleets at the moment and the coward perc is killing PvP. Also for the people that hunts down the Pirates...

#NoFleets!

Edited July 5, 2016 by karotte

[Hethwill]

Bigger Ships will not be able to follow the LGV ...

 

Surprise is one of the most safe options for LGV and Indiaman raiding, but I do not want to be forced to play ships I do not really want to play.

 

Every ship in the game from the Lynx up ( and even a well crafted cutter ) must be an option.

 

All sloops and brigs that are competently used are now nullified by the fleets.

 

I refuse to participate in a arms race just to keep trade raid addiction. Makes no sense.

[The Spud]

Bigger Ships will not be able to follow the LGV ... see the point? Even Fleets not impacts OW Speed. So even if you bring a 3rd rate to fight the fleet, you will not catch up on ow...

A solution will be that you can fight with your escort (Biggest ship in Fleet). Also your ow Speed depends on the slowest ship. If you lose, your goods are handed over to the winner.  So only 1 on 1 ...

Fleets at the moment and the coward perc is killing PvP. Also for the people that hunts down the Pirates...

#NoFleets!

 

 

If your view of PvP is 2 frigs taking on one LGV, thats just ganking mate. If now all of a sudden that LGV has a 3rd and a frig as a fleet, and now he's basicaly "ganking" you its unfair? Let your mate sail a pavel or bellona, you sail a frig. Let your mate take out the 3rd rate and the frig, and you take out the LGV. It shouldn't be any problem.

 

He'll think twice before he sails out with his 125k worth of crew + his cargo.

[Vernon Merrill]

That's not even close to "ganking" mate... That's how 99% of historical captures occurred. I think people in this game are too quick with the "gank" call. "Ganks" have largely been done away with since you can no longer hide in port with 10 of ur friends and have some tag someone who thinks they're getting a 1v1, only to find 10 people loaded into his battle instance without even seeing them.

[The Spud]

It just bothers me that people only want to engage in a battle when they have the clear upper hand, when you engage in a battle that can't possibly be lost from your side. To me thats as good a gank with two ships as with 10 ships. A managable disadvantage is no problem, but two frigs vs a LGV, that is just a lost battle. Even when the LGV counter tags, the frigs are faster and have chasers so will get him eventualy. Thats just frustrating gameplay for the LGV captain. That is like playing CS and your team has less then half the players of the other team.

 

All the coolest battles I have ever played in NA are battles that are even or at a slight disadvantage, they give so much satisfaction. Last week I got attacked by a lone surprise in my lone LGV, it was the best fun I have had in this game for over a month.

 

There is literaly no skill involved in capping a LGV with two frigs, chain the sails, shoot the masts, grape, board. So I don't think people should be complaining that a trader is running a fleet to protect himself.

[Pagan Pete]

Without given away me any o me trade secrets… Pagan Pete stays live primarily by seamanship. And LGV can easily escape a frigate, when proper handled. =o)

 

 

I feels that anyone who needs a fleet, actually need to lear to sail. Its an LTC issue (learn to captain)

(example; I got away from Caroline Vodca's privateer in me trade lynx. He were sure i was in a fully modded ship with the pyrate perk. Neither is true! But as i were puling away, listening to his helpless fury, I were laughing! He simply could not understand how I outmaneuvered him! And when I said "seamanship" he said "bullshit. Sailin takes no skill."  ---Not true. Seamsnship is very real in NA.---

 

 

#NoFleets!

#SeamashipIsKey

[Pagan Pete]

^^^
Now I know what ye may say; "But Pagan, that isn't a Gank fleet. Seamanship won't stop a Gank fleet!"

 

Two examples of Seamaship  (of my many, many tales of it)

1) Pagan Pete were in his surprise, the Harpy, and I were beset by eighteen, EIGHTEEN, US player ships of all classes… In good position.

Me immediate thoughts were, "By Flying Pig Cloud! Ifn I don't play this exactly perfect, I'm dead!" So… I played it exactly perfect, and though a series of advanced maneuvers and tactics, I were able to escape from ALL of them with minimal damage to me ship, and their egos in tatters! Yarr har har!

 

2) Just yesterday, I Ploughed through 7 Ai ships to make a prize O one player on a rattlesnake. I took the ship and sailed off with me prize and ,self intact… because Seamanship! 

 

Knowing what to do, when to do it, and most importantly WHY to do it… That be seamanship!

 

Seamanship will solve more o yer problems than any amount of AI, and can overcome any number of Gankers (18 is a BIG friggin number! Ifn yeve been hit by more, id like to hear that tale!)

 

#NoFleets! #SeamashipIsKey

[Hethwill]

It just bothers me that people only want to engage in a battle when they have the clear upper hand, when you engage in a battle that can't possibly be lost from your side. To me thats as good a gank with two ships as with 10 ships. A managable disadvantage is no problem, but two frigs vs a LGV, that is just a lost battle. Even when the LGV counter tags, the frigs are faster and have chasers so will get him eventualy. Thats just frustrating gameplay for the LGV captain. That is like playing CS and your team has less then half the players of the other team.

 

All the coolest battles I have ever played in NA are battles that are even or at a slight disadvantage, they give so much satisfaction. Last week I got attacked by a lone surprise in my lone LGV, it was the best fun I have had in this game for over a month.

 

There is literaly no skill involved in capping a LGV with two frigs, chain the sails, shoot the masts, grape, board. So I don't think people should be complaining that a trader is running a fleet to protect himself.

 

Getting a LGV with a sloop or a brig is another subject entirely, yes it is.

[Vernon Merrill]

Lander, I will concede that playing this game solo does often make for a more difficult life.

[The Spud]

I agree with the very amusing "Pagan Pete" that true Seamanship is what makes the difference in this game. You can outrun a frigate in a slightly slower LGV if you are sailing under the optimal angle for your LGV as compared to the frig, if you counter tag properly and possition good in OW, you can outrun that frig. But when you leave the battle screen you're back in OW and the game starts over. In any case this will be less fun then fighting a fair fight in your LGV.

 

The positioning of you ship is key in this game, and you need sailing skills to do that, you need to know you ship what it can and can't do, and this will make all the difference in a game. But there are some situations that are so unbalanced that even your best sailing skills will not be enough.

 

Even solo this game can be allot of fun, and you'll always find other people to do some fun stuff with PvP or missions or whatever. But if you want to do stuff completely solo, why not give these people fleet options and let them enjoy a safe trade run.