Twig Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Dear Devs,it has been two weeks now, where we were able to rethink our behaviour and our attentions in this forum.I belive the majority of the active players, which used to write the most in this forum, understood your pointand will behave more properly. I've seen it in almost every forum, which were in use since than.Sure, there are a few once, which are a little bit more different and might take the wrong tone.But that is something, that can happen everywhere.Situations change and are at any point in flux.Even more, you made your view clear to everyone.Now, the forum is only used by Moderators or Admins which post something from time to time.I think, now is the time to start all over again and to return it to the players.Thus, I would kindly suggest to reopen our esteemed and hardly missed forum again. Hopefully yours,Twig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I... don't think anything changed... at all... Except maybe much less toxic spill-over in the forums ;3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tief N Tote Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I... don't think anything changed... at all... Except maybe much less toxic spill-over in the forums ;3 i agree i don't see any changes just people seem calmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) i agree i don't see any changes just people seem calmer First: that is a change. Second: I mean the tone we are using right now. It is a big difference. No one is talking in the sharp tone anymore, which were used at the point where they decided to close the forum. Except maybe much less toxic spill-over in the forums ;3 That's what im talking about! Edited April 22, 2016 by Twig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastidius Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I never saw a problem. if anything mods just needed to stop derails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eishen Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 First: that is a change. Second: I mean the tone we are using right now. It is a big difference. No one is talking in the sharp tone anymore, which were used at the point where they decided to close the forum. That's what im talking about! So the closing worked as intended, post revolve now around testing and improving the game....and in a better enviroment... win why go back to the previous maremagnum? .... I love roleplaying and petty politics in an mmo as anyone but this is a beta (or alpha or EA or as they call it now thist testis...) later we will NEED speak politics, a bazaar etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Boneboys Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 What is the Suggestion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 What is the Suggestion ? Re-opening of National News. And it is just as Eishen said - if closing NN calmed down people, even more the reason to keep it closed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I am sorry, but personally I dont believe people are ready for opening NN yet. NN was very bad, a lot of flaming and such was happening and it was a lot of work for moderators. Even now with NN closed PVP shows up, while we are ver Forumy clear that there is no place for forum PVP right now. Maybe in the future it would be appropriate, but still now we have to many people doing forum PVP in places where it doesnt belong, flaming people and derailing topics. Too much of this is still happening, as such I dont believe the forums are ready for NN to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Robert Calder Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) I am sorry, but personally I dont believe people are ready for opening NN yet. NN was very bad, a lot of flaming and such was happening and it was a lot of work for moderators. Even now with NN closed PVP shows up, while we are ver Forumy clear that there is no place for forum PVP right now. Maybe in the future it would be appropriate, but still now we have to many people doing forum PVP in places where it doesnt belong, flaming people and derailing topics. Too much of this is still happening, as such I dont believe the forums are ready for NN to return. Than why tack the forum as a pvp forum in the first place? "Diplomacy, role-play, events, battle reports, light forum PvP" - Well, yes, it wasn't lightly at some point and I don't want to say it did not get out of hand. But the thing is, that I belive this has changed. To say, we don't need diplomancy yet is in my eyes not right: We are playing a diplomatic open world game and are thus forced to use diplomatics - Even if we are right now in the Alpha, the players (here testers) wants to play and to experience the whole game. Because only if they experience the game in all facets (Good and Bad), they are able to give the Developers a response what has to change and what is going on well. (Should be on your mind too) The game and this forum are, thanks to that, directly connected with each other. So there should be at least a spezialiced forum where the guildleaders can post their statements, their publications and their battle reports. By closing the National News, this possibility and thus part of the game, were taken away from those which really want to experience all facets. I mean, we don not need the roleplay in it (i belive this is more suited for the Tavern). But, please give the diplomatic and the players the place they need to "feel" the game all in all. Don't get me wrong - I hate what happend with the forum the last time and I don't want that to happen again! Still, I belive we can start this on a new level - Wiser than we were before. Edited April 22, 2016 by Twig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 If a public statement is needed, I am sure that if they contact us(the mod team) something can be arranged and I agree that politics is part of the game, but we(the mod team) discussed it in private and the conclusion was that it was better to simply close it for the time being, at the moment I dont believe there is any reason to fully open the sub forum, even if we were to remove the light forum PVP part it would quickly devolve and we(the mod team) would be stuck spending 99% of their time moderating there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Words are cheap. Month ago or month later, anyone can say "we will be nice THIS time!" but it won't change the facts. And no, forums are NOT part of the game. The fact the forums are not accessible through the game is proof enough. Again, words are cheap, and you just stating that this is a fact does not make it a fact. It's all nice and dandy what you say, but there is no wight behind your statements. There are no arguments or reasons for NN to be different this time around. There is no reasoning for the need of NN as a part of the game either. And even when NN were open, leaders made their deals behind the scenes anyway, and clan members would learn news from their diplomats way before they reached the forums. Facts do not correlate with your theory... Diplomacy is indeed a development goal in the future. And once there is a diplomatic system in-game, I could see someone, somewhere being able to persuade the devs to look at NN case again. Before that? Words are cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Nothing is stopping a player from opening a politics and bazaar forum for the game. In fact, I'd encourage anyone asserting that flaming and bad feelings are necessary for the game do just that - open a forum for politics for Naval Action and spend their time managing it. It was too much. Too much for mods to have a life outside of the forums. Too much distraction for the developers. And too many hurt feelings and bad blood. "We'll be good" isn't enough. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 We need Newspapers and good Almanacs though. Let the voice of the people be heard through those awesome publications. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) If a public statement is needed, I am sure that if they contact us(the mod team) something can be arranged and I agree that politics is part of the game, but we(the mod team) discussed it in private and the conclusion was that it was better to simply close it for the time being, at the moment I dont believe there is any reason to fully open the sub forum, even if we were to remove the light forum PVP part it would quickly devolve and we(the mod team) would be stuck spending 99% of their time moderating there. This is something I totaly can understand and follow. May I ask than, if you can give a few specialy Members here in the forum the right to make official statements? If those peolple are hard limited, these things that happend the last time shoud not be able to happen. I mean, those few (maybe a hand full of each nation) can be decided by the existing councils and players by vote. (Something that the nations shall do on their own.) - This would bring the National News back (even if it is just a little) and shoud not harm you. Words are cheap. Month ago or month later, anyone can say "we will be nice THIS time!" but it won't change the facts. And no, forums are NOT part of the game. The fact the forums are not accessible through the game is proof enough. Again, words are cheap, and you just stating that this is a fact does not make it a fact. It's all nice and dandy what you say, but there is no wight behind your statements. There are no arguments or reasons for NN to be different this time around. There is no reasoning for the need of NN as a part of the game either. And even when NN were open, leaders made their deals behind the scenes anyway, and clan members would learn news from their diplomats way before they reached the forums. Facts do not correlate with your theory... Diplomacy is indeed a development goal in the future. And once there is a diplomatic system in-game, I could see someone, somewhere being able to persuade the devs to look at NN case again. Before that? Words are cheap. Wow, where do I start... First of all, can you be more kindly? This is the tone I was talking about earlier. The forum is, as long as this game still needs to continue to develope, a part of the game - Even though it is not implemented. Diplomany, is not a goal for the future, it is something that needs to be regarded right now. As long as there is no diplomatic system, the forum has to be the replacement for it - Even if it is not accessible through the game, it is still necessary. You say: "There are no arguments or reasons for NN to be different this time around." Even if there are no arguments or reasons for NN to be different this time around, what makes you belive if could not be not different this time? But both can happen! (We only know if we trie, you can not say that it will definitely not work) The clans might know about, what the diplomancy did. But not every clan gets the full informations, nor those players wich are clanless! This is no theory, this is a fact! Coming to the end: Your whole statement is just based on your deep mistrust against the playerbase. But just by repeating your statement: "Words are cheap" will not make these words true, nor it will make your full statement convincingly. Please find true arguments. ------ Edit: It took time to get this down - A newspaper would be a nice idea and i now that the NN coast a lot of time earlier. Edited April 22, 2016 by Twig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I liked, and I think the mods and developers liked, the newspapers and political cartoons. But if we're honest with ourselves, those sorts of posts were in the vanishing minority in the morass that was National News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I mean, those few (maybe a hand full of each nation) can be decided by the existing councils and players by vote. (Something that the nations shall do on their own.) - This would bring the National News back (even if it is just a little) and shoud not harm you. DRUNK. And right there your whole idea just bombed. How do you deal with rouge clans? Do you officially condemn them by not giving them official presence? Or do you let them fuel their on-forum propaganda pvp by doing so? Where do you put the line? How many players till an opposition is valid? Vague idea is nice, but it falls apart when you start going into details. I'm not a fan. Wow, where do I start... First of all, can you be more kindly? This is the tone I was talking about earlier. I always say what I think straight to the point. There is nothing offensive in that, so no, I have to refuse. Beating around the bush is jus not something I do. The forum is, as long as this game still needs to continue to develope, a part of the game - Even though it is not implemented. Diplomany, is not a goal for the future, it is something that needs to be regarded right now. As long as there is no diplomatic system, the forum has to be the replacement for it - Even if it is not accessible through the game, it is still necessary. (...) The clans might know about, what the diplomancy did. But not every clan gets the full informations, nor those players wich are clanless! This is no theory, this is a fact! We will have to agree to disagree on that. In-game chat and TS are doing fine job by me. And they also don't run the risk of being perceived as "dev-supported". If anything, it's good more traffic will be directed to in-game chat to discuss in-game state of affairs, instead of forums that house only a percent of active population. Even if there are no arguments or reasons for NN to be different this time around, what makes you belive if could not be not different this time? But both can happen! (We only know if we trie, you can not say that it will definitely not work) I'm sorry, but this is naive and unreasonable. Nothing changed from last time, so why would anything go differently this time? We tried. We cannot say if will definitely not work - we can say it well most likely won't work. Coming to the end: Your whole statement is just based on your deep mistrust against the playerbase. But just by repeating your statement: "Words are cheap" will not make these words true, nor it will make your full statement convincingly. Please find true arguments. This is straight up a lie. My statement is based on experience and tested/proved concepts. We did go through NN, we did see how it turned out, we know for a fact - thus, fact-based argumentation. To dismiss these arguments as "mistrust" is baseless. I get that you're passionate about NN and want to see some of it back. I am the same way - and that is why I will be the first to argue against any revival of NN until there are actual solutions on the table. To just dive in with best hopes and wish people change because "we got it, trust, humanity and Jesus!" is naive and - for NN sake - suicidal. To unluck NN and see it go the same way as the last time again would be to ensure NN will never come back in any form. If you want NN to be back, you need to find a solution (and we're talking a full-length, well thought out ones), not hope. Actions are best based on plans and ideas rather than on hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Thanks Galileus, that was the arguments i was asking for.Well, you are right when you say that rogue clans are a problem - there is nothing I can possible say about it.But please DRUNK is not the only clan which had that behavior in the last forum. Please don't associate rogue clans only with one. This will only discriminate them and that is not fair, nor polite, nor something I wish to expanse.I might be naive and a dreamer, but I rather stay a dreamer and naive, than having such a bad opinion of the player which likes the game I like.This is just what I belive, and I know that there are "black sheeps" but everythink needs the right to change themselfes. If I only say from the beginning, that this will not happen, they dont even get the chance to do so.I have to excuse myself: I just got the expression (from your post), that it seems, that you deeply mistrust the playerbase. If that is not right. Im sorry, that I said something so offensively.--------------------------------------------Well, as far as I understand, the reason why it was closed was that the admins (Moderators) had to much stuff to do there.So, why do they not just reopen the forum again and just let a few volunteers moderate those part of the forum?E.g: For the indroduction / headline: THIS THREAD is monitored by the players only. It will not be monitored by the Moderators. Following council of players are selected to moderate the "Thread" and are impowered to block any player form posting on this "Thread" if he violates the following rules of communication etc.... By posting here you agree upon the set of "good rules of communication" as follows.... 1.2,3,4,5,6,7.... ---------------------------------------- Sure the rules and the whole concept needs to get worked out first. But if we can take the part from the Mods, than it shoudn't be any problem right?Is it possible that the players get a self-regulating part of this forum. And can get a few "Thread-Mods" from their own lines?It should take the burden from the shoulders of the mods. I belive there are a few players, which are willing to do that. I think, this might something that we can try at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spud Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Well, this topic kinda destroyed itself if you ask me. It wanted to make a point, and in the end it just disproved itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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