Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Please watch this (might be approved by Mod / Admin or be removed). I might have put it to suggestions, as there are many great ideas in it how to tackle the problem... Come discuss this topic ! (share your views and experiences) Edited April 21, 2016 by Wilson09 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catastrophy Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo van Grojt Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I volunteer access to my forum user ignore list for cross referencing as a first step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Please, ADMINS / MOD ! Why do you keep pushing topics of me into "TAVERN" ! (happened the 2nd time, first time higly justified, but not this one....) It is a General Discussion Topic ! AND NOT a topic of "Naval Action: Age of Sail Historical Discussions" It is one of the reasons I stopped "sailing as a captain in this game..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Tavern does not mean it's irrelevant, it merely means that it doesn't fit in the other places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) So, it is an "off topic" - discussion !? I don´t mind, as long as it´s getting viewed...but I don´t see the point? As long as the TAVERN is frequently "clicked" and viewed, fine, but right now, it feels like putting a topic to the graveyard....putting it to bed. It is a general discussion topic, worth to be discussed by the community of players. Edited April 21, 2016 by Wilson09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 So, it an "off topic" - discussion !? Yes, by the definition it's off of the topic of Naval Action Gameplay Discussions That subforum is dedicated to focused critique of NA gameplay. There is no reason to be angry, by bringing this up you're only killing your own topic. One I would rather see stay on-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yes totally NA already has the ignore feature. Louis Garneray I do not know for sure there are a few females that play this and Im sure if they are open about being female some shmuck takes it upon themselves to harass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yes, by the definition it's off of the topic of Naval Action Gameplay DiscussionsThat subforum is dedicated to focused critique of NA gameplay. There is no reason to be angry, by bringing this up you're only killing your own topic. One I would rather see stay on-topic. So. CHAT / communication does not affect my "gameplay"???? Nation / Battle chat is an integral part of the gameplay and play experience. It a an ON-Topic issue, just to put it right. By no means, Galileus, you are going to win this argument on this one... if you don´t have tools of communication (like chat) you start the game as a single player and stay as a single player...and very early on, you can get harrassed in NA, even in a small battle. It is an on-topic-issue...if you like it or not... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Is there harassment against male/female players in NA? Harassement is not limited to be based on gender, race, nationality or otherwise. And even saying that, we've already seen nationality based harassment in these forums, in game as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 to correct myself: I see the point that the whole topic fits also into NA community and support / (Tribunal ?) Originally, I was going to put it into suggestion, as I am suggesting more "tools" to developers to implement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yes totally NA already has the ignore feature. But that is an "after" getting harrased "feature". It does not protect the player from the ones who post it. BANNING does not help completely. I like this 80-90% feature of this video... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) >>And I have to say I rarely go to global chat or nation chat. >>Part of it because of the spamming Agreed. But, I need the national chat for "offers" on trade (and on PBs news, PvP news...) As there is no "trade channel". There should be a trade channel. if it is in, I can mute the pirate chat if I don´t plan to go to war... Edited April 21, 2016 by Wilson09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I do not mind paying high value to the companies that enforce a healthy gaming environment, whatever media. The same negative aspect can be found also from not behind the screen. Tabletop gaming clubs and stores with gaming table have their own share of toxic individuals. Is easy to fix and better than a mute. Simply put, after a while they can't get a game going with anyone. It worked wonders to their behaviour. In internet gaming it should be the same. I vote not to play with someone. If there's a good amount of "block" choices that person simply cannot join that arena. Hell if that person has block votes left and right he simply gets blocked from playing al'together. And I am sure any company reserves the right to support a customer in regards to his behaviour. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta Scorpion Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 We should add a local chat, so you can talk with players on open see in sight. National News could just reopen because it was the best part of the forum (just make it unmoderated, or just one dedicated mod looks at it..) The worst flame is mostly in nation chat i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo van Grojt Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 We should add a local chat, so you can talk with players on open see in sight. National News could just reopen because it was the best part of the forum (just make it unmoderated, or just one dedicated mod looks at it..) The worst flame is mostly in nation chat i guess I disagree and agree with the video in the OP - you defeat the trolls and flame warriors by not giving them a stage. National News was closed because the hate and flame started spilling over into the rest of the forum and mods were spending 90% of their time/resources on policing NN instead of moderating the rest of the forum and more usefull content and suggestions by players. Putting the trolls on ignore both ingame and on forums is the best countermeasure, really. Open and unmoderated comms just get us closer to World of Tanks chat which I am sure most of us do not want Naval Action to devolve into 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Wildcat Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 (edited) I am urging anyone that goes to another nations capital area, and I know some pirates that do, and attacks new players to STOP! How would you like it if you started playing a game and right off you get bullied? Do you think these new players will stay? I care about this game and don't want to see it die. Edited April 23, 2016 by Anne Wildcat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) I think, it´s some good read in here... Is it possible for highly competitive online multiplayer games to avoid "toxic" in-game communities? --------------------- The sceptic view.... --------------------- No, I don't think it's possible anymore due to human nature and couple of game design factors. Some of these were mentioned by others but I'm recategorizing it how I think it makes the most sense: Anonymity: You are much more "anonymous" these days in an online community than you were before. F2P games means a more or less nonexistent barrier to entry. Before someone would grow to really care about an account, nowadays making a new one is trivial (especially since "competitive" games strive to keep players on even footing). Higher player population means you can hide being an asshole for much longer. It's much hard to build any sort of infamous or notorious reputation, people can't remember you as easily. Matchmaking, while being super convenient, has also removed any need for interaction or being pleasant outside of the game. In WoW and even DotA/CS1.6, having a set group of people who you could do things with was essential. Shouting for PUGs takes way longer than just grabbing 4 people off a friendslist and you basically couldn't play a proper match in Dota or CS without developing some sort of rapport with some other players. Now matchmaking removes all that interaction. You can be an asshole to whoever because a machine is setting you up with other players. Competitive drive: This seems to be a more recent trend in online gaming. You don't just play to "have fun" anymore. You play to win. And when you play to win you become much less forgiving of deviations. So what if someone misses a spell or a grenade. People are human and that person could be playing their first game of the night or their last game of a marathon. He could be genuinely terrible or just put down his controller for a moment when his wife got home. It seems to me we used to forgive these smaller interactions or mistakes. But nowadays everything is about "being the best" and "maximum efficiency" and it certainly has changed the general attitude of people who play video games. I mean, I played DotA way back when it was just a random mod. People played it cause it was fun and we wanted to. These days if I happen to meet a new player there's a good chance all they talk about is how good they are or how good they can be. It's less about the game itself, and more about how much better than other people they are. Team gameplay: Okay, so obviously not all online games have to be team games, but that seems to be the general trend for the modern games industry. And while you can have a "toxic" single player community, it's much less likely. Even if you get shit talked when someone beats you, it's much easier to zone out and just play your game. But when you're on a team, the first two points really start to become a problem. You're anonymous (much more so than before) so you immediately have no problem being generally uncooperative and hostile (because being friendly and making an effort to communicate costs extra energy, I would guess most people prefer to stay silent until either something in game or another player prompts them to speak). And then since you really want to win, it becomes really easy to notice your teammates' mistakes and start flaming. Especially with the new age MOBA game design. It's probably one of the first genres where you could easily be a net negative for your team since teamwork is given such a high focus and priority. So it's much harder to ignore a bad player in League/Dota than in CoD/Halo. And its even worse when your game has a lot of... Complexity, depth, and breadth: There is a strive (which I think Dota spurred on accident) to create really deep and varied games these days. And the goal is the have that depth be emergent of the game itself in an elegant way. The problem though is that when you get a game with enough variability like Dota, there emerges a lot of different opinions and playstyles that contradict each other without being wrong. The different expectations of how "competitive" you want to be already was splitting players. Having a complex game compounds that issue over and over. Now even if all 5 players are ready to tryhard and do their best, they could still have wildly different ideas of how they want to play. Every time the aggressive player pushes, the defensive player gets frustrated and angry. Every time the defensive player slows the game to farm for a new item, the aggressive player gets mad that he's not fighting. And they're both right! You can win the game using either strat or a combination of! Of course this is going to cause problems! So with these four typical features of online games, it seems more or less impossible to develop a grounded positive community. Users hide under an more and more powerful blanket of anonymity, able to create new accounts at a whim. The entire focus of the community is a strive to "become the best" in an aggressive manner. You are forced to play with other players meaning you have to bear both their successes and failures together. And now games have developed enough complexity that you can play in two contradicting playstyles and have neither be wrong. It seems like a perfect storm recipe for people to fight. I know companies are trying to fight their online communities being shitty, but I don't think it can be done without some pretty drastic measures. Check out the Smash Melee community for example. I think they manage to be much more positive because their game is inherently offline. So while people can talk trash and whatnot on forums, they have to show up in person to actually play each other. Meaning each name online is tied to a person and each person is then accountable for their actions lest they want to be ostracized. Your opponent always has a face in Melee so it's impossible to be a part of the community without properly interacting with others in person. There's no such requirement of online communities, so I think players dehumanize each other much more quickly and easily. Edited July 25, 2016 by Wilson09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 The different expectations of how "competitive" you want to be already was splitting players. Having a complex game compounds that issue over and over. Now even if all 5 players are ready to tryhard and do their best, they could still have wildly different ideas of how they want to play. Every time the aggressive player pushes, the defensive player gets frustrated and angry. Every time the defensive player slows the game to farm for a new item, the aggressive player gets mad that he's not fighting. The entire focus of the community is a strive to "become the best" in an aggressive manner. You are forced to play with other players meaning you have to bear both their successes and failures together. And now games have developed enough complexity that you can play in two contradicting playstyles and have neither be wrong. It seems like a perfect storm recipe for people to fight. ------------ Reading these lines made me think of our "pirate fishermen" and about all these comments ingame chat. Also, since beginning of game start: Attend a port battle, yes or no? Defend other players, yes or no? One aspect needs to be mentioned, no game master or developer can control "toxity" in TeamSpeak or on social media. It is out of developers control. As TS3 is required for most multi-player games, it is controlled by player´s community. Here you have another environment, for clan "kicking", TS-bans and perma-bans and so on and on... Maybe, in the end, we all end up looking for a "quiet" life as a fisherman !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 It's a hobby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) I agree Hethwill. But, as stated.... "Competitive drive: This seems to be a more recent trend in online gaming. You don't just play to "have fun" anymore. You play to win. And when you play to win you become much less forgiving of deviations." Just think of PBs and all that "we need to attack/defend" and so on... Many, many guys take this way to serious.... What happens, if someone is at the door, the dog is barking, kids are crying? You quit the game / surrender and let it go... Don´t expect any understanding in NA-MP-environment. You are being branded as a "spy", KILL ON SIGHT and all that sort of thing... Go, HETHWILL, go and tell those players... IT IS A HOBBY ! And just for this reason, i am strictly opposing any kind of ladders/ranking and so on (yes, maybe duelling).... Edited July 25, 2016 by Wilson09 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Always reminds me of the bullies telling me why did I bring a "tiny" ship. I just sneer and banter. In the end it is a hobby and when I think I'm darn good at it... I find someone which is way better and I go very happy with being able to learn something new. Being a hobby means fun, joy of learning and trying all possibilities. Pretty much like building a model kit. Yeah not a fan of ladders as well. The only ladder I really like is the Storm of War for Cliffs of Dover. Records your sorties and victories. Once you die ( by aerial death, crash death etc, ) all is wiped out and you start a brand new life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson09 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 Something, you need to live with in any other internet-multiplayer-game: ...just citing a comment for another game... "Then comes the cheaters that were forewarned long before they arrived as in all games.Some must win at any cost and pat themselves on the back for comfirming they are thelowest form of life breathing on the planet." The downside in NA is, I find it tiring being suspect of "spying for some other nation", because, as they say, there are players out there using multiple accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Something, you need to live with in any other internet-multiplayer-game: ...just citing a comment for another game... "Then comes the cheaters that were forewarned long before they arrived as in all games. Some must win at any cost and pat themselves on the back for comfirming they are the lowest form of life breathing on the planet." The downside in NA is, I find it tiring being suspect of "spying for some other nation", because, as they say, there are players out there using multiple accounts? From my experience throughout gaming the most toxic reactions usually come from people who can't swallow a defeat and this cheater quote is pretty classic self-defense mechanism to point the blame on anyone/anything else than themselves, most of the times these people branding others cheaters do it just say anything to excuse themselves of their poor performance. Even in NA me and my friends have been called cheaters and whatnot just to cope with losing but why would anyone take these banters seriously and care enough to make videos about them is beyond me. Also people play competitively because it's fun to win for them. ''Fun'' is subjective and some people like to turn their brain off during gaming while others constantly scan for options to gain advantage, is their fun not allowed when it contradicts your own? Most people also play to win because what fun is there in losing after losing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15186-why-tribunal-is-so-pointless/?p=281414 This game is harsh and ruthless, just like 18th century warfare. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14842-pvp1-june-26th-pirate-scamscum-at-kingston/ http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15528-pvp1-june-29th-no-sympathies/ http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15623-pvp1-august-3rd-the-french-émissaire/ It is even expected from Pirates. I would even go so far as to say that the downfall of Lord Vicious has been the pinnacle of this season so far. (And it isn't over yet until the wipe/Exterminatus. ) The ignore list tool is in, you can report abuse in game. we issue 7 day bans for 10-20 for players per week - some of those eventually move to permanent bans even more 1 day bans are issued There is "no broken windows policy" on toxicity. You can be angry but you must never be extremely rude to others. Players are given all tools to help control toxicity in game. Report and ignore. Disabling communications with enemy nations makes chat a lot cleaner. But, the tools for dealing with in game bullying are not there yet. You called him a cheater. If he is a spy or an alt he is not cheating - he is a saboteur (if he is) and game does not give national officers tools to handle those people. We need to see what actually constitutes bullying and how to potentially deal with it. A Nation has identified a saboteur by observing his hideous acts. (I think there are numerous examples to be found on the forum. ) Since the saboteur is clanless, a Nation can issue an edict evicting him from the Nation (force him into Pirates). (To deal with Clan members a Clan needs to be petitioned, either to kick the saboteur first or potentially face charges on the Clan level.) So in a sense I agree with your plight, but we should bring the right options for the community to deal with the real bullies. Edited August 11, 2016 by Skully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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