Captured ships towing (no more teleporting)

[Fonseca]

You've just boarded and captured a ship, instead of  teleporting it to wherever you want, you would have to tow it to your nearest outpost, just like it was done in real life.

 

While on OW your ship would suffer a speed penalty and the ship you are towing would be visible, so that if an enemy player/s sees you, he can attack you to try to capture your caped ship, you would have the option in OW to sink the captured ship if you think you won't make it and want to try running away without the drag of the caped ship, the sinking of the caped ship in OW would take an X amount of time, if the ship didn't sink in time and you get dragged to battle you would have 2 options, a) keep trying to sink the captured ship with a timer  for an x amount of time or leave the captured ship unattended and try to win the fight, with the risk that if the enemy kills you or you run he can come close to the caped ship and take it for himself.

 

This is the historic context of why I think it's a good idea, if you read the section "Storm and sortie" you'll find that a spanish squadron tried to go back and retake some ships that were being towed after the Battle of Trafalgar :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar

 

When you dock with the towed ship you will be able to get out the loot (if any) from the battle from where it was captured, to sell it / store it, but you won't be able to add new cargo to the towed ship, this is just to prevent exploiting and to prevent people from using caped ships as trailers.

 

If you have any more ideas about it please let us know.

[xAzDKr]

Why not use capped ships as trailers? It would be like having an trader fleet member

[KrakkenSmacken]

Nope.

 

Too much delay and unnecessary crawling around the map.

 

Crew go to 100%  when you leave a battle instance for this very reason.

 

Now if when you hit "send to port" it would assign a "prize crew" at 100% because that's what always happens when you leave an instance, and an NPC would sail said ship to the port exposed to all the perils of travel, that would be fine.

 

Also with this, no reason to restrict cargo.  You see a player's trader ship cruising the seas on the way to port, you have a better chance it has something ... interesting worth taking.

Edited March 21, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[jodgi]

Here we are, barking up the boring tree again.

[HarryButpain]

or man the capped ship with skeleton crew and sail it back? Actually, the idea to use it like those npc ships which you can hire to follow and protect doesn't sound all that bad. Maybe add a screen with a 'crew slider' if you made the decision the let it follow you. It would be up to the captain how much crew he wants transfer from his ship to the captured one. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by ValoWay

[KrakkenSmacken]

or man the capped ship with skeleton crew and sail it back? Actually, the idea to use it like those npc ships which you can hire to follow and protect doesn't sound all that bad. Maybe at a screen with a 'crew slider' if you made the decision the let it follow you. It would be up to the captain how much crew he wants transfer from his ship to the captured one. 

Crew replaces 100% after every fight for a reason, and repair kits in OW are a thing, that reason being docking after every single encounter, even an easy one that "only" kills one or two crew is tedious and very un-fun. Additionally not many Crew fought to the death the way the current mechanics are.  Most ships surrendered after they realized they were out matched.

 

Some realisim sacrifices have to be made in the name of fun, and full crew after battle is one of them. So no a crew slider would actually be pointless given the current mechanics.

[maturin]

This should be obvious:

 

If you needed to permanently (until visiting port) give away 30-40 crew with every capture, the game would finally have a meaningful and realistic limit on the number of AI ships you can viably hijack at once.

[mouse of war]

If there was a NA realism server I would probably play on it most of the time - and this would be a great feature

[KrakkenSmacken]

This should be obvious:

 

If you needed to permanently (until visiting port) give away 30-40 crew with every capture, the game would finally have a meaningful and realistic limit on the number of AI ships you can viably hijack at once.

 

Nope.

 

It's ironic but as a pirate this particular mechanic would have almost zero impact on me. This is what I do.

 

Outpost in a Free port well away from the rest of active pirates.

 

TP to said outpost whenever I feel the wan't/need for some AI trader piracy.

 

Undock from the port and take a peek.  It's usually about 60 seconds of looking before I see a juicy Trader snow creeping along the coast.

 

Set up the battle based on winds, and make sure I'm not going to suck in any other national AI.

 

Start instance, take ship, teleport MY attack ship to the port so I can get all the goods.

 

Drive new ship to port.  Usually less than 90 seconds away.

 

Lather, Rinse, repeat.

 

See the thing is, if you want the cargo and the ship, 70% of the time you have to switch ships anyway, so TP of prize has very little impact.

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

This should be obvious:

 

If you needed to permanently (until visiting port) give away 30-40 crew with every capture, the game would finally have a meaningful and realistic limit on the number of AI ships you can viably hijack at once.

 

Yes, this is what I have been suggesting from the day I started playing this game.

 

Remove teleports, remove "send to outpost".

 

When you cap a ship, it's added to your "fleet" but with a skeleton crew (subtracted from your own crew) that acts as a trader (tries to run away from battle).

 

This solves all problems... You cap the ship, you take it "in tow" or whatever you wanna call it... You need to sail it back to port, but you still have your combat ship, slightly undercrewed.. If you get jumped you can either protect the capped ship or just run, leaving it to it's faith... It could or not escape the attacker and rejoin you... When you get to port, ship is automatically added to your shipyard, crew is restored.

 

It makes absolutely no sense that you have to send one ship away when capping... Towing makes even less sense, nobody towed ships, they'd just split the crew and sail it.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Yes, this is what I have been suggesting from the day I started playing this game.

 

Remove teleports, remove "send to outpost".

 

 

 

You forgot "Remove most customers", because that is exactly what would happen without at least one way to deal with the massive amount of time suck that sailing any meaningful distance is, or being lost.

Edited March 22, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Aetrion]

I think there is an argument to be made that crew should be a limited resource and capturing ships should "cost" some crew.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I think there is an argument to be made that crew should be a limited resource and capturing ships should "cost" some crew.

They would need to change the AI suicidal fight until the last man "mentality" so that ships that are on a no win slippery slope surrender sooner, and the remaining crew can be pressed into service.

 

The problem with that is that people would be very very pissed off if THEY lost agency and were forced to surrender under the same conditions. The end result would mean that fights against AI would be more realistic, and fights with equally matched players would end with one player having about 5-10 crew left, regardless of starting size.

 

OR

 

Crew kills are not "kills" and there is always a percentage of crew that were simply incapacitated or demoralized and individually surrendered at the end of every fight.

 

In my head I just pretend that's whats happening, and that quite frankly is enough for me. It sounds functionally different, but in actual game play not, so not really worth Dev time in my opinion.

Edited March 22, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Macjimm]

Mr KrakkenSmaken.,

Respectfully, I'm not sure your assessment is accurate that we would lose players if captured ships required more player management and had the crew size was finite. This type of game would benifit from these enhancements.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Mr KrakkenSmaken.,

Respectfully, I'm not sure your assessment is accurate that we would lose players if captured ships required more player management and had the crew size was finite. This type of game would benifit from these enhancements.

Respectfully, the vote is almost 2/1 against removal, and if you look at this thread

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12031-open-world-has-me-about-to-call-uncle-on-this-game/

 

on travel times killing the game for at least one player and many participants of that thread, I submit that I have enough non-anecdotal evidence that yes in fact, making capture require even more effort, especially the time to sail the ship back, it would hurt the game far more than the benefit of the additional realism would provide.

 

I actually think the only real impact will be less captures, and more sinking.  People already favor sinking over capture due to the additional time it takes to board.  Add in guaranteed crew loss that lingers past one battle, and future performance problems, say when trying to finish three missions before returning to port, and capturing a ship becomes the worst thing you could spend your time on.

 

So I ask you, how would discouraging people from participating in the capture aspect of the game make the game better?

Edited March 23, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Quineloe]

Teleporting should go away - but this idea is not fun.

 

IMO a captured ship should get added to the Fleet of the player in a captured state - bare minimum crew, in the state you captured them at, AI control if another battle happens so you need to protect it or send it to run away. Amass as many ships like this as you want.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Teleporting should go away - but this idea is not fun.

 

IMO a captured ship should get added to the Fleet of the player in a captured state - bare minimum crew, in the state you captured them at, AI control if another battle happens so you need to protect it or send it to run away. Amass as many ships like this as you want.

 

i'm not opposed to this on a couple of conditions.

 

First, "send to outpost" is not the same as all teleporting.  Saw a guy last night that really really needed it.  Got himself stuck in shallows with no way out. Besides, 1 TP every 4 hours unbalances nothing for other players.

 

Second. "Minimum crew" is the total number of fully "healed" crew you can support at your current rank, divided by the number of crew for each ship, rather than battle remnants or some arbitrary value.

 

Basically if you have a 350 crew cap, piloting a snow, and capping a trader snow, you can fill both ships. (240 crew total)

If you can only populate your own ship, (120 crew) and cap another snow, then both are at 50% capacity.  

All fleets should work the same way. If you want a large fleet you need to split your crew capacity up among them.  Most people understand that they are the most efficient when they pilot the most powerful ship they can, so splitting crew limits actually means you are operating in a sub optimal way.

 

If you "Attack" and instantiate a new battle you can leave the captured ship out of the instance, but it sit's in the OW waiting for you to pop out. You would not take a captured trader ship into a fight with you, but you would take the risk of leaving it unprotected if you went off to another fight.

 

If they attack you, all your fleet shows up.

[Macjimm]

Mr. KrakkenSmaken

So I ask you, how would discouraging people from participating in the capture aspect of the game make the game better?

I have no idea. Perhaps your question is rhetorical and you can explain it.

For the record. I voted against towing. But I would like to see crew management related to captures as well as a limited number of crew available while at sea. Would be very positive improvement.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Mr. KrakkenSmaken

I have no idea. Perhaps your question is rhetorical and you can explain it.

For the record. I voted against towing. But I would like to see crew management related to captures as well as a limited number of crew available while at sea. Would be very positive improvement.

It was not rhetorical.  

 

You said.

 

"This type of game would benifit from these enhancements."

 

My question was simply asking you to the question "how" would the game benefit?  

 

How is it better?

How will it improve your gaming experience?

How would it positively or negatively impact your willingness to take the time to capture a ship rather than sink it?

 

How is it more fun? 

 

I submit that it's less fun, not an improvement, would hurt the gaming experience, and reduce peoples motivation to participate in the capture aspect of the game.

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

You forgot "Remove most customers", because that is exactly what would happen without at least one way to deal with the massive amount of time suck that sailing any meaningful distance is, or being lost.

 

Actually what I forgot to say us that OW speeds should be X3-4 to compensate for the lack of teleports.

[eriks]

OMG, have you ever tried towing a sailboat with another sailboat? I have. Trust me, it is not fun (and you still need a skeleton crew of the boat being towed).

 

I can see an argument for skeleton crews. But towing?

[Fonseca]

OMG, have you ever tried towing a sailboat with another sailboat? I have. Trust me, it is not fun (and you still need a skeleton crew of the boat being towed).

 

I can see an argument for skeleton crews. But towing?

 

Yes I have, no problems at all, you probably did it wrong

[eriks]

Yes I have, no problems at all, you probably did it wrong

 

 

Do tell. What were the displacements of the boats involved?

 

IRL I have about 20,000 under-sail ocean miles under my keel, most of them solo on my 40 footer transiting between Hawaii and SF.

[surfimp]

IRL I have about 20,000 under-sail ocean miles under my keel, most of them solo on my 40 footer transiting between Hawaii and SF.

How was the OW travel time on that? Too boring? Heh.

[eriks]

How was the OW travel time on that? Too boring? Heh.

 

Lots of audiobooks. Lots of reading. One transit back to California after the 2004 solo transpac race I ran out of books to read so I ended up reading the shop manual for the Yanmar diesel engine. I wish the kindle had existed back then.

 

The one thing I think the devs totally nailed is the interplay of light, water, and fog around dawn and sunset.