Dumu Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Ahoy! Group of swedish players attacked and captured a dutch bellona. A dutch trincomalee, commandeered by Admiraal Maarten Tromp joined the battle, but instead of fighting honorably he decided to flee. He continued sailing away from our slower vessels for the whole duration of the battletimer, for more than 1 hour. Our brave captains think that just running away and avoiding any kind of combat, effectively keeping us from getting the captured vessel, he was indeed griefing and should be ordered a proper punishment for his actions. Personally i think that making 5 players wait for 1 hour is not fun gameplay for anyone, so i leave this matter to the tribunal to be decided. Screenshots of the "action". Sincerely yours Dumu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I think it valid tactic. He did not make you wait, he made you wait. Him included. He paid with his own time to get yours. He gambled his time against yours, and you won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musuko42 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I've suggested before; there should be two timers in battles. The first is the one we have now, which gives you the option to leave. The second should be a longer timer (10 minutes perhaps) that FORCES you to leave if you've not been tagged or tagged someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumu Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Calling this a valid tactic is just silly, imagine you capturing a trader and someone joins in with a basic cutter and starts to run against the wind for 1 hour. Then he could just rinse and repeat it time after time. Keeeping you from capturing anything. Still valid? To fix this there should be a timer set to end the combat after no damage done after 10 minutes, as the battle essentially would be over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musuko42 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 To fix this there should be a timer set to end the combat after no damage done after 10 minutes, as the battle essentially would be over. That's actually better than my suggestion. It'd have to not count green-on-green damage, though, to stop two trolling players joining and just denting eachother with a cannon shot every nine minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Speirs Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If that's a tactic then that's complete crap by said player, ship should go to the players who captured as they have the greater force being realistic and won the ship and engagement, maybe a timer on the derelict ship that needs to be retaken from the player who captured in lets say 10 or 15 minutes if he wants to deny the ship thus making him risk his own if he wants to deny them, after the timer the ship will remain the new owners if he hasn't sunk by the end of his leave timer, seems fair to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Ahoy! Group of swedish players attacked and captured a dutch bellona. A dutch trincomalee, commandeered by Admiraal Maarten Tromp joined the battle, but instead of fighting honorably he decided to flee. He continued sailing away from our slower vessels for the whole duration of the battletimer, for more than 1 hour. Our brave captains think that just running away and avoiding any kind of combat, effectively keeping us from getting the captured vessel, he was indeed griefing and should be ordered a proper punishment for his actions. Personally i think that making 5 players wait for 1 hour is not fun gameplay for anyone, so i leave this matter to the tribunal to be decided. = where did it happen? Which location and how far from the port? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Yet another example of players blaming players for developers poor mechanic Whats more there is zero evidence of intent. Whos to say he knew it blocked captured ships from being awarded? You cant know without an actual admission of such in chat for example. Perhaps his daughter woke up and he had to go look after her (happens to me all the bloody time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musuko42 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Yet another example of players blaming players for developers poor mechanic An unlocked door does not excuse the thief who walks through it to steal, and faulty mechanics in an early-access game do not excuse players who exploit them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 It could be worse, Try absolutely destroying a player in PVP to the point where he has no armor but is still able to escape because it is a larger fight and you may not be able to continue tagging him. That mechanic should be fixed,not this. If enough damage is done to you to the point of which your ship is no longer battle worthy, if you cant win the over all fight, escape should not be available. I have seen far too many screen caps of yellow covering a teams scoreboard. Why fight if they can just escape after 1:30 of no damage, even though they should be dead in the water? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumu Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) where did it happen? Which location and how far from the port? The fight took place just outside the Free Town of La Orchila. Edited March 20, 2016 by Dumu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) An unlocked door does not excuse the thief who walks through it to steal, and faulty mechanics in an early-access game do not excuse players who exploit them. Someone walking through said unlocked door does not immediately infer intent to steal though does it. Once again intent is not proven Edited March 20, 2016 by chappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutai Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 This has happened to me before. It is very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumu Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Yet another example of players blaming players for developers poor mechanic Whats more there is zero evidence of intent. Whos to say he knew it blocked captured ships from being awarded? You cant know without an actual admission of such in chat for example. Perhaps his daughter woke up and he had to go look after her (happens to me all the bloody time) Actually we thought he might have been afk, but he changed course several times during the wait. And we tried to contact the player via battle chat and even in the global chat with no reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Someone walking through said unlocked door does not immediately infer intent to steal though does it. Once again intent is not proven No but if its not your door,and you are not invited its still illegal. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 and what if... ... no one is able to see you while you jump from door to door ? * wink * Indeed sirs, indeed. Something that works may not be intended to be used. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) all this use of analogies is getting confusing No but if its not your door,and you are not invited its still illegal. =P so you are suggesting that if a mechanic can be determined as abuseable, anyone that manages to use said mechanic incorrectly. even if it was purely accidental should be punished... wow.. goodluck populating a server after you apply that rule Edited March 21, 2016 by chappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Short term, I would personally suggest this is "not punishable" and shrug and say "it's alpha". Worst case, you quit out and lose the ship, but eventually there will be a wipe anyway. He wasn't really keeping you in there or ruining a bunch of people's time. Second worst case, the person who was claiming the ship could have sat in there and had a sandwich and gotten the ship at the end (time wasted = 1:1). Longer term, there should maybe be some consideration that if no enemies are reasonably close to you, you should be able to leave and take your prize ship with you. Even in PvE this is annoying. Sometimes I have captured the ship I wanted and the last 2 NPCs have been having a running fight with each other and are like 3 km away. The ideal fix would probably be that you send crew to the prize ship and it auto-flees as if it was a trader NPC. If it makes it out, you'll see it on the exit screen and can tell it where to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Ahoy! Group of swedish players attacked and captured a dutch bellona. A dutch trincomalee, commandeered by Admiraal Maarten Tromp joined the battle, but instead of fighting honorably he decided to flee. He continued sailing away from our slower vessels for the whole duration of the battletimer, for more than 1 hour. Our brave captains think that just running away and avoiding any kind of combat, effectively keeping us from getting the captured vessel, he was indeed griefing and should be ordered a proper punishment for his actions. Personally i think that making 5 players wait for 1 hour is not fun gameplay for anyone, so i leave this matter to the tribunal to be decided. Our current position on such things is currently simple Denying enemy the capture is a valid war tactic. Current ruleset awards the capture if no enemies are present in the vicinity. You are allowed to use tactics that were used in the age of sail. In this case enemy frigate shadowed your fleet and denied the capture. Workaround within current ruleset is simple (in which you don't get the capture, but enemy does not get it too) Battle closes automatically 5 mins after BATTLE OVER message Chase enemy for 5-10 mins away from the boarded ship. Once the distance is sufficient just exit the battle together This will generate battle over message and it will close in 5 mins Enemy won't make it back to the boarded ship to claim it It is not the best outcome but at least the enemy ship is lost forever and they did not claim it back. This feature would work properly if 2 mechanics were in place After you capture the ship you can assign an officer to it and send a prize crew to the boarded vessel. After assigning the crew and officers you give the ship the order to escape the battle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sorry to interfere admin, but if they exit together there will be no possibility of jumping into another battle during the invisibility/invulnerability period - basically keeping a number of ships unseen in the OW during extended periods of time and thus unable to be tagged by enemy forces. IIRC this situation the "trolling" was specifically aimed at disrupting the mechanic exploit. Hard to screenshot/capture video though but I guess you might check the logs on your side. - 1 scout gets out of the battle, starts a new one. - group jumps out and joins the group battle. - rinse and repeat and only 1 player is visible. I codemn both parties actions, the trolling and the exploit. Hope the issue is fixed soon as it was reported before at different levels - player/group/fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sorry to interfere admin, but if they exit together there will be no possibility of jumping into another battle during the invisibility/invulnerability period - basically keeping a number of ships unseen in the OW during extended periods of time and thus unable to be tagged by enemy forces. it was supposed to be fixed last patch but for some reason did not get in invul will not allow battle entry after the next hot fix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Many thanks for your work. Salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Our current position on such things is currently simple Denying enemy the capture is a valid war tactic. Current ruleset awards the capture if no enemies are present in the vicinity. You are allowed to use tactics that were used in the age of sail. In this case enemy frigate shadowed your fleet and denied the capture. By doing what exactly? Sailing away at full speed? This is neither realistic nor fun. Even if this isn't a Tribunal thing, please adjust the game so this isn't possible. I could do the same thing with a Lynx or a free basic Cutter. Forcing people to wait over an entire hour because of this is POTBS levels of griefing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Prize crews. If the attackers could leave with the captured vessel, everything is fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 By doing what exactly? Sailing away at full speed? This is neither realistic nor fun. Even if this isn't a Tribunal thing, please adjust the game so this isn't possible. I could do the same thing with a Lynx or a free basic Cutter. Forcing people to wait over an entire hour because of this is POTBS levels of griefing. Right now it works like this yes. If enemies are present you cannot take both ships. But you could sacrifice your cheapest ship - take control of the bellona and exit the battle. In this case you will lose -1 durability on your cheapest ship and still leave with a bellona. This topic is not black and white unfortunately - if denying enemy a capture is griefing then taking enemy bellona is also griefing. Parties did not have to stay in battle for an hour. You can exit any time if you don't receive damage. They just wanted to cap that bellona, while enemy did not want them to capture it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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