Tom Pullings

I like the idea of disconnecting the elevation of the guns from the mouse. If we are talking realism, then on a ship, the point of aim of the guns doesn't move just because the captain glances somewhere else. That's the issue of having the mouse control view AND aim.

Fascinating work. I'll be quite interested to see how the devs work this out. I do hope the actual requirements of accounting for the prevailing winds works its way into OW in some fashion.

But that wasn't the end of her, now was it?! Whereas, with the ol' tub-o-lard...

Well, if it does, it will make a big splash, big tub of lard that she is. Perhaps I just don't see the appeal of cargo ship that sank on her maiden voyage... But a successful privateer that was uniformly praised in her day....

To whet your appetite for the Rattlesnake, here's a nice scale model a buddy of mine built from scratch. Imagine yourself on the quarter deck!

Ur....ehm.....I believe "Shanghaied" is an American term from the Bay area deriving from the practice of...ah...ahem...."recruiting" sailors who'd had a few too many.... Just sayin'..... But, in general, yeah! Just you Brits try something!!

I don't know, but I would suspect that on a square-rigged ship, simply handling the yards would accomplish much the same thing, which, as Aerobane points out, we can already do. The wind will still have an effect on fore and aft sails, such as staysails or the spanker, but unless the wind is just abaft the beam, it won't add to forward momentum much.

She has always been one of my favorites as well. I've never seen this lovely model of her before. Thanks.

Thanks. I added the ones that weren't in the list already (and that weren't self-explanatory).

Oh, I think your link was fine. I put in a reference to a more comprehensive source myself. I was just thinking there would be more people chipping in terms useful for game play. I hadn't tried to be comprehensive. Perhaps there are not so many terms that useful for game play after all, though. I certainly pushed things myself with "Lee Shore" as our good doctor pointed out.

Well, it's a bit off-topic really, since the thread is about whether religion should be a part of the game. I'm merely responding to the repeated misconception that religion was very influential as a part of daily life in this period. For those not interested, just skip this post. But, for Destraex: It's not really a revelation except to those who uncritically view history through the lens of contemporary popular conceptions. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of public sources. Just do any reading on the history of 18th and 19th century Europe and America. Take a brief look at the relation of the state and the church during the French Revolution where the population exhibited a rather violent anti-clericalism, for instance, or the response that John Wesley, for instance, received almost everywhere he traveled and preached in England. Clearly, Spain entertained a more central role for religion during this period, including a continued effort to evangelize the New World through missions, but these efforts were as much political as religious and near the beginning of the period covered by the game, European rulers together forced Pope Clement to disband the Jesuit order in part because of the incluturation controversy, but mostly because they represented the power of an independent church, something the rulers did not want. The First and Second "Great Awakenings" in America during the "revival" periods (not long before and during the last part of the period covered by the game), while deeply influential on religious practice and structures in America, were themselves responses to what was widely understood to be spreading secularism, skepticism, deism and rationalism. They were reactionary movements of relatively short-lived duration. England and Germany, in particular, lacked religious enthusiasm during this period, and the Holy Roman Empire in its last century of existence was mostly a political rather than religious body. By the middle of the 19th century in Germany, Nietzsche was able to write that God was dead. He didn't pronounce the deity's demise. He merely acknowledged the nadir that faith and religious belief had reached in northern Europe by that time. Religious enthusiasm has always experienced ebb and flow in the west. The middle ages were indeed, on the whole, a period of strong religious orientation in daily and political life. Rulers held power through divine right and the church was perhaps the most significant unifying social institution of these ages. But the modern world, beginning in the 18th century, was a radically different place, and this in large part due to a clear and intentional rejection of what were perceived to be the excesses and deep problematics of the too close relation of church and state. This long period (from the middle of the 17th century through the 19th century) of growing rationalism and, in truth, anti-religious sentiment goes by the name of the Enlightenment. Perhaps you've heard of it. I'm not wanting to be disagreeable. But, much as someone intimately familiar with the operations of an 18th century naval vessel would probably chime in to correct misconceptions about its handling or structures, I just wanted to correct the misconceptions that have been presented repeatedly in this thread about the religious character of the time period of this game.

Those models are incredible! Where are they located? It would be nice to have more animated crew, although I do understand the demands created by that. Still, for me at least, the ability to "walk" the deck and see life-like action would be fantastic. I'd probably do very little else!

Again, speaking as a historian with professional expertise on the topic, religion is MUCH more influential and central to public life by far in parts of the world today (such as the US) than it was in the 18th and 19th century in Europe or America. I know there is a popular narrative about how important religion "used to be" and that we have lost "faith" in the modern world, but even a cursory examination of objective resources will show that not to be the case in so many ways.

*sigh* I believe the admins have a clear answer to their question now!

That doesn't seem to be what you were asking for to begin with. You seemed to want the ability to adjust individual sails in several ways. This new suggestion might be possible. It means asjusting the amount of canvas in finer increments. I don't think such an ability would be very useful. The game already gives you five canvas configurations (full, half, battle, slow, and dead slow). You could add finer increments to simulate reef points, but such fiddly settings would be trying to simulate something the game can't really support, I think. First, a captain would order reefing on particular sails to respond to wind and storm conditions and to adjust ship trim to the water (bringing her by the head for instance if she is newly laden in a way that puts her stern down). Neither of these are modeled. I don't think we have varying winds in the game, and I don't think ships change their trim except when taking on water, and at that point in the game, adjusting your trim by fiddling with the sails is your last priority. Second, ships have inertia, the bigger the ship, the more inertia. Sails are not throttles. Making fine adjustments wouldn't really make much difference and certainly not immediately. So you would be chasing a moving needle trying to change your ship performance through fine adjustments of canvas amount. You can do something much more effective and immediate at present by simply manually controlling the positions of the yards relative to the wind. In real sailing, this is always the first and primary adjustment. Shape of the sail is second, and can't really be modeled in the game, I don't think. Amount of canvas is last, and happens in discrete increments, not fine scale. You take down a jib or put in a reef. You don't change the amount of canvas by 1%. TL:DR: the game already allows you to make fine adjustments of the sail relative to the wind that is much more immediately effective than any new (and unrealistic) system of increasing or reducing the amount of canvas in finer increments. That method is to manually adjust the angle of the yards to the wind. You can do this in practically infinitely fine increments, and you can do it individually for fore and aft sails. Learning to truly manage yard position for best performance on all points of sail and for each maneuver is quite a learning curve already. Practice will bring good results quickly, however.

Yes, but in the game, you don't get to order the trim. You have to manipulate it yourself on manual. So, if you add more trim controls, that's more controls you have to individually manipulate rather than "order," leaving you precious little time to aim or fire or just manipulate the ship in the first place. Rudder and yards with perhaps the added ability to furl the fore and aft sails seems plenty to deal with.

As a sailor, let me say that what you are suggesting would leave you no time to actually battle. I think the auto skipper is intended to model the constant adjustment of sails to the conditions. I know that it only just adjusts the angle of the yards, but within the limits of the game, that is probably the best you are going to get. To try what you are suggesting in an actual battle would likely leave you mostly in worse shape than just using auto skipper, and perhaps often in irons as part of your trim winds up being very wrong for the conditions because you are still busy adjusting other sails. There are a couple of nice sailing simulators out there. I have a couple and like Sail Simulator 5 the best. It's a modern simulator with mostly Bermuda rigs, but it will allow you to learn how to fiddle with the strings, as they say, adjusting out haul and Cunningham, for instance, to further shape your sail.

Again, this post was meant to focus on common terms useful for the game, rather than a comprehensive reference. Perhaps I should have posted in the general discussions section. I had hoped the post might have been pinned by admin as well.

Speed is usually a factor of waterline length on most vessels. It's more complicated than that, of course, but as a general rule, the longer the ship the faster.

Well, I took a look at the article, and I suspect that Tabby is right and she kept wearing just to keep at a good point of sail to stay ahead of the frigate but also stay on course. Running dead downwind is a lousy point of sail on a square-rigged ship, and if her course lay dead downwind, or close to it, she would rather zig zag by pointing up a little first on the starboard tack and then on the larboard tack so as to maintain best speed. Since she only wore three times in that long run while the frigate closed, that's likely why. If this is the case, then the frigate was likely doing the same, matching tack for tack, so as to try to catch her; until he did, whereupon the frigate hove to in order to bring his broadside to bear and the battle started. That's my best guess from what we're told.

Yeah, that one is pretty complete. I was thinking the basics. I've started one here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3150-sea-terms-and-sailing-lingo/

Someone suggested we start a topic with a list of common terms used in sailing and fighting ships. Just the basics which might help orient people particularly those fighting together in Teamspeak or using chat for commands. If this topic can be pinned, I'll try to keep it updated as people contribute. No need to get too esoteric. Just the common terms for handling ships and calling out commands should be good. For those interested in the arcana, I can recommend Sea of Words: (http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Words-Third-Companion-Seafaring/dp/0805066152/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422200230&sr=1-1&keywords=sea+of+words) Or William Falconer's Dictionary of the Marine: http://southseas.nla...falc/title.html provided by Seaman Stains (thanks). I'll get us started. Abaft: just a way of indicating toward the aft. To say the wind is abaft the beam is to say that the wind is coming from somewhere behind the middle of the ship. Aft: to the back or the back part of a ship. Back: to back the sails is to maneuver them so that the wind is pushing against their forward face to move the ship backward, or help it fall off or turn faster. To maneuver a square-rigged ship well in battle, one needs to know when to back the fore or main sails to tighten the turn. When the ship has backed all its sails, it is said to be aback. Beam: the mid-point of the ship. Also used to indicate the width of the ship (which is usually widest near the mid-point). Beam reach: to sail with the wind perpendicular to the ship's direction of travel. A good point of sail for most ships, particularly fore and aft sails. Bear up: (head up) to turn more into the wind. Bow: the forward (fore) part of the ship. Broad reach: to sail with the wind on one's aft quarter. The best point of sail for square-rigged ships. Close hauled: to sail as close to the wind as possible. Not the best point of sail for most ships, particularly square-rigged ships. Downwind: in the direction the wind is blowing. Fall off: to turn more away from the wind. Heave to: (hove to) to adjust the yards so that the fore and aft sails counteract each other, causing the ship to largely stop or make small motion to leeward. Heel: when a ship leans to one side because of the pressure of the wind on the sails. Irons: (as in stuck in irons) to miss stays when tacking through the wind and be stalled in the turn or slip backwards. Larboard: the left or port side of a ship. Lee shore: the shore downwind or leeward of you. The dangerous shore since one must sail against the wind (claw off) to get away from it. Once open world starts, be watchful of getting pinned between the wind and a rocky shore. Leeward (loo-ard): to the side toward which the wind is blowing such that to reach it one turns with the wind. Objects to the leeward are downwind. Leeway: when the ships makes way by being pushed by the wind against the hull, so any unintended movement downwind. Not really modeled in the game except for when you miss stays and get stuck in irons and the wind pushes you backward (by pushing against the sails). Luff: to turn the yards so that the wind no longer pushes on the sails, thus slowing the ship. Pinch: to sail as close-hauled as possible. Point of sail: the generic term for the relation of the ship and its sails to the wind, including close-hauled, reaching (on a beam or broad reach) and running downwind. Rake: to fire a broadside at the stern (or the bow) that travels the length of the ship causing damage as it goes. Running: to sail directly downwind. A faster point of sail is to bear up a little on one side or the other of directly downwind (a very broad reach). Starboard: the right side of a ship. Station: (keeping station) to sail in a line and maintain distance from ships ahead and astern. Stern: the aft or rear most part of the ship. Tack: to turn with your nose passing directly through the wind. Also used to indicate the point of sail relative to the wind, so that sailing with the wind coming from the right is called the starboard tack. Upwind: in the direction into and against the wind. Van: to be in the forward part of a line of battle (the vanguard). Wear ship: to turn with the wind so that your stern passes directly through the wind. Also called a gybe or jibe. Much easier way to turn. Weather gage: to be upwind or to windward of your opponent. It allows you to dictate battle, since the opponent cannot sail directly upwind, but you can sail directly to the opponent. Windward: to the side from which the wind is blowing such that to reach it one must turn into the wind. Objects to the windward are upwind. Yard: what the sails are hung from and which cross the mast. Handling sails is done by manipulating the yards.

That's a good idea. I think I'll start one and everyone can contribute.

I got the "only occupants" can send in global chat yesterday before the server crash.

I'm thinking you'll be wanting to captain a merchant ship in open world for some reason.....