pietjenoob

Chattam, 80 guns, 1799, http://i.imgur.com/Cj059jS.png

Prins Maurits, 76 guns, 1783, http://i.imgur.com/Mi1c8bh.png, http://i.imgur.com/6z5rTYT.png

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/12919-wip-leeuwenhorstedam-56-gun-dutch-sol-1742/

Which is the Dutch Hekboot or for non Dutch speaking Hagboat on which the Indiaman is based on.

I agree on that, atm we have: American : 9 ships, 2 merchants, 1 non craftable British : 11 ships, 2 merchants, 1 non craftable French : 5 ships, 1 merchant German (Hamburg) : 1 ship Russian : 4 ships Swedish : 1 ship, 1 pre-order redeem, 1 merchant Spanish : 1 ship, 1 reward ship Danish : 1 in progress Pirate refits : 2 ships Dutch : none Venetian : none Portugese : none I really think people should start take a look at the numbers here and think by themselfs why do we have so many of minority nations and a very large English/American fleet, also looking at France, represented whilst more common nation are underrepresented, talking about the one who don't have any ships listed here.

For the Dutch they used merely 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate as there main SoL since the nature of the coastline. And I need to mention that the Dutch also have beside the normal warships also some merchantman had as many guns as a normal 3rd rate, these ships were mainly used for the WIC and VOC since they had different kind of intrest, but not uncommon that they would have seen battle. (apart from the pirate-refits). I know that the Wreker-class (80 guns later 90) and the Prins Maurits-class? (74 guns) of ships had a 36, 30 and 12 after refit 36, 30 ,12/36 and 36, 24, 12 Dutch pdr had were to the Admiraal de Ruyter (Wreker-class), De Vrijheid and 7 Provinciën (Prins Maurits-Class?). In British pound it mean that they would have a 39,5, 33, 13/39,5 and 39,5, 26,5 and 13 Pdr had respectively. For the 74 gunners they would have 28*36pdr , 28*24 pdr , 18*12 pdr, it means they would have a broadside weight with Dutch pound in 948 pdr whilst the current bellona has 865 and the St Pavel 1038 if we calculate that to Brit pdr she has a pdr of 1041. There for I would say the Dutch ships would be a nice filler to bridge the gap between certain rates as a heavy ship rate. And for the Wreker-class ships I will do in two stages since the refit, for the pre-refit the ships have 30*36 pdr, 30*30 pdr, 20*12 pdr, that would mean they would have a broadside weight of 1110 Dutch pdr whilst the current St Pavel and Bucentaure have 1038 and 1200 british pdr broadside weight, but if we take the conversion into account that would mean they would a heavier broadside weigth of 30*39,5, 30*33 and 20*13 pdr taking that into account, she would then have a broadside weigth of 1218 british pdr. And now that is done let's go to the refitted Wreker-class of ships with 90 guns, those had a 30*36, 30*30, 20*12 pdr and 10*36 carronades, so in Dutch pound we would have a broadside weight of 1290, for comparison the Victory and the L'Ocean have 1295 and 1365 british pdr broadside weight, but now let's convert we have suddenly 1415 british pdr broadside weight. So as a summary the Dutch might not have had there primetime during this period nor we have really famous ships for that matter, but that does not take away that the ships we used were under gunned or had bad performance, by not owning a 1st rate. They were more than capable to match up any other major sea power at the time ship wise if not they had a heavier broadside weight than same class or higher ships. For the conversion rate I use the Amsterdam pound with 494,04, for conversion sake I used 1.098 for simplicity. The British broadside weight might be a bit off by a margin of 20/30 pdr but that is more to do with what source u use on Dutch pound, for this most commonly is used the Amsterdam pound And a question for @admin when do we know when a ship/selection of ships have been chosen? @Fluffy Fishy the Tirare guns were a nice read, I got 2 questions, 1 were these guns breach or muzzel loaded and 2 would u dare to say thes guns are the first truely rifled and precise (for the time) guns to be ever used, by any significant power.

And there he goes with the Venetians , but they too had a very interesting thought about ships I have to say. Not really mentioned in the history books that the Venetian Navy had a big part of stopping the Ottoman influence via Italy

what u think of 70 guns?

May I ask on what basis u think that Steelsandwhich likes the Montañes? I know for sure that he is a Dutch Ship-fanatic

Well we already got that with the woodtypes, but saying a Dutch 3rd rate is the same as a the 3rd rate ingame really hurts. Dutch have a flat belly for example and other qualities. So if you want the current 3rd rate then I would reccommand check the French and Spanish ships first, they have more in common than the Dutch ships for example.

Well to Further expand my post Diana, 32 guns, 1808, http://i.imgur.com/1TfwVUS.png, http://i.imgur.com/ChsrfGy.png Heldin, 32 guns, 1796, http://i.imgur.com/T99Be1g.png Juno, 32 guns, 1797, http://imgur.com/7qKFGBG, http://i.imgur.com/6eGfL9R.png Castor, 36 guns, 1758, http://i.imgur.com/TyAMiY4.jpg Jason, 36 guns, 1772, http://i.imgur.com/ZhvLUK8.jpg Minerva, 36 guns, 1790, http://i.imgur.com/AZMkDww.jpg Prinses Frederika Louise Wilhelmina, 36 guns, 1789, http://i.imgur.com/gPn8FDf.png 't Hof van St. Janskerke, 36 guns, 1733, http://i.imgur.com/8e8skWa.jpg Unknown, 56 guns, 1806, http://imgur.com/g2HOgZi Hilverbeek, 50 guns, 1729, http://i.imgur.com/JesJ4vh.png Leiderdorp, 50 guns, 1731, http://i.imgur.com/K80ZncC.png Westerdijkshorn, 50 guns, 1728, http://i.imgur.com/qX5wzbY.png Brederode, 52 guns, 1731, http://imgur.com/8nEMdNV, http://i.imgur.com/ryNH8j3.png Boekenroode, 52 guns, 1733, http://i.imgur.com/n45rGWQ.png, http://imgur.com/qMHo0Nc Prinses Frederika Louisa Wilhelmina, 54 guns, 1779, http://i.imgur.com/BD8veqw.jpg Brakel & Delft, 56 guns, 1783, http://i.imgur.com/I80KmBO.jpg Leeuwenhorst & Edam, 56 guns, 1742, http://i.imgur.com/O5dpNgS.png Twickel, 56 guns, 1726, http://i.imgur.com/B2QIg1D.jpg (missing the hull lines but should be similair to others Dotrecht, 58 guns, 1739, http://i.imgur.com/B2QIg1D.jpg Schiedam, 58 guns, 1739, http://i.imgur.com/B2QIg1D.jpg Stadt en Lande, 72 guns, 1798, http://i.imgur.com/FP0Wsdu.jpg Haarlem, 74 guns, 1790, http://i.imgur.com/YWMMBDy.png, http://i.imgur.com/SuvIFIB.png Prins Maurits, 76 guns, 1783, http://i.imgur.com/Mi1c8bh.png, http://i.imgur.com/6z5rTYT.png Washington, 76 guns, 1795, http://i.imgur.com/eA9nmEt.png, http://imgur.com/g4Hmoai De Maas, 78 guns, 1728, http://i.imgur.com/0h2VO7Y.jpg (missing the hull lines but should be similair to others Chattam, 80 guns, 1799, http://i.imgur.com/Cj059jS.png De Leeuw, 80, guns 1804, http://i.imgur.com/kkEwHR0.jpg Wreker, 80 guns, 1797, http://i.imgur.com/zHu4L8F.png, http://i.imgur.com/IteOKh6.png Admiraal de Ruyter and Admiraal Zoutman (pre-refit) is the same as the Wreker only a difference in bow figure and stern gallery, http://imgur.com/kzonf70, http://imgur.com/GyO9req, http://imgur.com/GIaj3fV Dutch build ships, but captured by the British, some have changed apperance Mars, 32 guns, 1769, http://i.imgur.com/Xddxbd2.jpg Prinses Carolina, 52 guns, 1748, http://i.imgur.com/Eu6td1j.jpg Rotterdam, 52 guns, 1761, http://i.imgur.com/UI6OLnJ.jpg I have not included the Dutch Merchantships with the same amount of guns as the requirment since it is not clear/requested that they want such ship

I shall as soon i am back of work

For Dutch, The Vrijheid 74 gun The 7 Provinciën 74 gun Prins Friso 50 gun The Leeuwenhorst/Edam 56 gun slighty lower gun count but unkown 30 gun for more Dutch ships look at this thanks to steel For more ships take a look at the link:

Well certain nations were Infamous for there use of shallows/shallow water ships. For example the Dutch dealt a good amount of damage to the combined Anglo-French fleet that they had to retreat near Texel. But also local knowledge of shallows would mean u had a chance to stay safe. There have been reports of experienced captains making use of shallows, to evade or ambush people. And from a strategical standpoint a river can be easily defended by a single fortress if placed correctly, but at the same time very easily being blocked off by the enemy if need be. But that can also mean that for example Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Russian ships (for a certain extend) would come very useful in those scenario's while a open water battle say at sea a Spanish, English and French ships would more useful. Just to give u guys an idea what I mean: Bucentaure 80 gun, 1803: length of gundeck: 55.5m breadth: 14.3m draught (forw): 7m draught (aft): 7.8m Admiraal de Ruyter 80/90 gun, 1806: length of gundeck: 54.9m breadth: 14.3m draught (forw): 5.9m draught (aft): 6.2m Also take in account that the shallow ship nation which I mentioned earlier tend to have a flat belly instead of a keel/fin Before i forget to mention the ships are both from the 1800's

Do you happen to have a screenshot of dutch getting slaughtered at roseau?? As my intel suggests none were lost

I would like to Introduce the 7 Provinciën en de Vrijheid or HMS Vryheid after her capture at camperduin and the Admiraal de Ruyter

I would love to see Dutch ships ingame, they promised that they would come. The ships we have are not the biggest or famous but they packed a big punch, the 74 gun class of 1780's had a base loadout of 36, 24, 12 Dutch pdr as a normal loadout. The only ships that come close to a Dutch is the Chapman Indiaman (currently ingame) which is based of a Dutch Hekboot aka Hagboat, and the Yacht as a class

May I ask why do the Dutch still have to this day then Willemstad, Curacoa, Fort Zoutman, Aruba and Oranjestad, Sint Eustatius to name a few Dutch cities. Not to mention the trading triangle we set up/part of for almost 400 years, Europa-Africa-America?

i hope u have seen the date on it, yes friendly but not allied that are 2 different things, and it is merely for certain clans than anyone which i do not belong too

no he hasn't confirmed that we are allied to French and do you consider Sweden to be allied to GB, because GB screened for Sweden? That we are at war with sweden nor allied to french

may i ask on what basis do you say Dutch is allied to French? One time screening does not say we are allied might also be they were on look for prey u can also say that sweden is allied to GB because GB helped with screening for Rosseau and what indication do you have we have a war against Sweden?

Dutch do have pop more than enough, we don't have the same problems as the french or US has

As for now it seem to have been solved with both installing the visual and restarting the laptop I will post later the gpu driver