Austrum

Agree with you here. Way too many people don't want to acknowledge that older ships will have a place in this game and are trying to push the late 1700s - 1800s time frame on all of us. Thank god we have the Ingermanland on its way with its 1715 launch to finally make the point that older ships belong too. Doesn't change the fact that the smaller 4th rates probably won't have the speed or maneuverability of a similar gunned modern Frigate or in the case of some of the older 4th rates, might even have less firepower. Still they are going to be great additions and something I would sail often.

However, I have read that Sea Trials are only in place for testing and that the arena match will go away at some point as they focus more and more on the Open World. Might be just rumor but I have heard this talked about fairly often. Also even if they do keep the arena battle mode around and/or expand it, 1st rates are still end tier ships and much like WoT, it will take a long, long time to reach end tier. The being the case even there, you can expect people to be spending alot more time in the mid tiers than at max tier, at least for the first year or so. Lastly, I will give you that some people are here because of the 1st rates but I would be more are here for smaller ships and I think Frigates will end up being the most popular by far in the end. Anyway, I don't want to get into further debate about it as I (we) have probably derailed the thread way too much as is. I just think way to much time is being devoted to 1st rates so aside from some of the unique Danish, Dutch or other minor countries designs, I can't support further 1st rates being added at this time.

I think we just need to make sure to keep things historical. That being said, without any real historical background or even alot of knowledge, I would strongly guess England. Why? Because they are on an island and everything they were rested upon their Navy's ability to function at high efficiency. I mean you cannot move troops across the sea, unless you have a strong Navy to protect them, you cannot engage in meaningful commerce unless you have a strong Navy to protect it and you cannot have a massive world spanning empire, unless you have a strong Navy to secure it. None of the other major powers had this sort of naval influence so in my opinion, it just stands to reason that England had the best Navy during the Age of Sail.

I have to agree with Brigand despite the fact he claims he jumped the gun on replying. I mean do we need another 1st rate? Honestly I was a little put off they chose the Ocean class as the wildcard in the first place simply because 1st rates aren't where this game should be heading. Yeah, Yeah I know, they are the biggest and baddest ships on the ocean and all that but seriously, 1st rates should be so rare that they are almost unseen in the open world game they are developing and A LOT of effort is going into these 1st rates when they should be working on just about anything but. I mean even at the best, 1st rates are going to be late, late end game ships so aside from a very few just to have them available at launch, there is no point to having them. Now Frigates, Merchant ships, Sloops, Schooners, Ketches, Corvettes, Brigs, etc, that is what is going to be needed at launch and lots of them, probably about 5x the amount we already have. When you consider that they could probably add in two or three smaller ships for the efforts going into the Ocean class, well it seems a waste. Only reason I can see a need for another 1st rate is IF they are really going to turn the Sea Trials into a World of Tanks like game where they need at least 3 nation based tech trees ranked tier 1-10. If they are going that route then yes, it makes sense to add in the Ocean class since we have an English and Spanish 1st rate already, otherwise, just say no to 1st rates.

Yeah I love the Mordaunt and am a firm supporter of getting that ship added to the game. Also strongly looking forward to the Ingermanland which has a good chance of being my preferred ship in the game being the lovely small 3rd rate that she is.

I vote this one up. Love 4th rates despite the fact historically they were considered under gunned for the line and not as good a Frigates for everything else.

I was just thinking, we have Frigates, some of which could be classified 4th rates (Constitution comes to mind) and we have 3rd rates like the Bellona and the incoming Ingermanland but no 50-60 gun 4th rates, even in the works. So anyone aside from me like to see some focus on true 4th rate SoLs of 50-60 guns??

Oh on this we agree. I don't think the Wasa 1628 is a good ship to add to the game mostly because it was a failed design, but I was primarily just replying to how your post was worded. It came off like we shouldn't be adding any ships from the 1600s to the game because most of the ships we do currently have in the game are late 1700s early 1800s designs. I also agree there are some ships from the 1600s, especially the early 1600s that don't really fit aesthetically and because of that really don't fit into what I would like to call, the "look and feel" of the game however, there are a ton of designs form the 1600s, especially the late 1600s that still retain the character of those older ships while having more modern lines that fit right in with ships like the Bellona, Surprise, Victory, etc and I really want to see and sail those ships. Honestly, I would rather sail a beautiful ship with lots of character that is just decent than an ugly ship that is great, but that is just me. Honestly though if any ship kind of stands out, it is the Constitution since in my opinion it looks too modern for the game. Perhaps the cut off should be 1670 -1799, not 1630-1830 but I am sure there are alot of American fans that would disagree.

Fantastic. Nice American Frigates. Would be a good addition to fill out the American lines a bit.

Seems Denmark has a fairly substantial SoL presence as well though usually smaller 3rd and 4th rates with a scattering of 2nd rates and maybe a 1st rate of two. Still from the lists I have seen they where fairly common.

To a degree. There are a whole crap load of very good looking ships from the late 1600s, say in the 1670 range that fit in just fine with more modern designs. Also just because a design came out originally in say 1630 doesn't mean that people weren't taking older, very functional and proven designs and building ships to that spec even 100 years later. Take the basic, generic brig for example. They were in use all throughout the 1600s all the way through at least 1883 when the Telos entred the USN merchant marine. That is almost 300 years of usage out of one ship design.

And it is features like this that will get the total buy in of the gaming community. I mean this game is pretty much going to be a full bore RPG in addition to being a MMO so if a trader could convert his Indiaman into a Warship in real life, you kind of need to be able to do it in an RPG.

Wasn't talking about balancing actually was talking more along the lines of any special non-balance related bonuses which is why I say depending on how the game is designed. If they are going to make the current Sea Trials like WoTs, then bonuses to XP earned and/or lower repair costs kind of like premium tanks. Maybe for open world, it would be a reusable blueprint you buy for cash that lets you construct a the premium ships much cheaper using less materials, something like that. Premium ships that aren't offering any bonuses.... not sure how well they would sell, especially for open world use, unless they were very, very cheap, especially since as soon as the enemy sinks it once, it is gone.

Your correct about Frigates, they really are kind of all over the place describing alot of differently designed vessels all throughout history. It is kind of like if something didn't exactly fit neatly somewhere else, it was called a Frigate. Anyway, there are alot of 2 deck Frigates that bear strong resemblance to larger SoLs but they are still classed Frigates. I think it had to do with what guns it mounted taking into account number and size or it seems like it anyway. 2 Deck Frigates seem to all mount 9lb and 12lb guns where 4th rate SoLs mounted 18lb and 24lb guns though that is just speculation on my part. Of course then for a long time you had a standardize type of ship that represented a Frigate which seemed to encompass basically any single gun deck ship with more than 20-Guns. Of course even their the lines got blurred. The Constitution which was designed as a Frigate, really had more in common with a 4th rate SoL as far as firepower and armor anyway.

Look at all those beautiful 3rd and 4th rate SoLs. I want, I want.

Might make a good premium ship at that. Depending on the model and just what a premium ship actually does for you in game.

Not really. A purpose built Frigate for example can carry cargo but I highly doubt it can carry as much as an Indiaman. Also these converted traders aren't quite to the same level as a purpose built warship. Sure they can do in a pinch but as you their is a reason why Navy's didn't build convertible, dual role ships, because they just weren't as good. Also, yes it is a no brainer that you would have to buy the extra cannons and hire on extra crew but buying 20-30 cannons and hiring 200 crew is a hell of alot cheaper than buying a purpose built 3rd or 4th rate SoL to go alone with your lightly armed Indiaman. That is my point, you want to be a trader, you buy or build an indiaman so you have a armed cargo hauler. Then after you save up more coin, you pay a relatively small conversion fee to cut out a second deck worth of gun ports, plus rig the ship for those guns, then you buy 20-30 12lb to 32lb guns, the powder and ammo for them, gather a larger crew, mount up the guns and now your trader is a decently powerful warship that you can take out with your player association to capture the next port over. Once the battle is done, you tie her back up at dock, move the guns out to the warehouse and move cargo back in and your back to trading. Of course, Officers of the Navy, will never run a converted trades ship, nope they will have to have that full bore Bellona, Ingermanland or Constitution because overall, they are just better at being a warship.

I recently decided to goof off with the Connie using 24lb guns on the gun deck and 32lb Cannonades on the top deck which I believe is one of its historical configurations. However, I noticed that there did not appear to be a way to load standard in my Cannonades and double in my 24lb guns. This got me thinking that there are actually alot of times I would like something like this, for example loading my 12lb guns on my Bellona with chain instead of shot while loading shot on my 24lb and 32lb guns. Things like this. Seems like this sort of option should be put into the game.

Agree. This is why I was disappointed when the Devs chose the Ocean Class as wild card. We already have two great 1st rates in game. Would have preferred to see them add in something we don't have or at least something with very unique character (IE not French, English or Spanish).

Of course to me this is also a good thing because it adds diversity. I think ideally, having ships of similar gun capability, that have fairly significantly different handling characteristics is what they should be shooting for in Naval Action. This is one of the reason I am so stoked about the HMS Indefatigable being added to the game. She will be a good alternative to the USS Constitution with slightly less firepower and top speed but likely slightly better armor and maybe even better turn qualities. Basically it gives players another option of what qualities they prefer in a ship.

I think this is part of what would make these ships a very good addition to the game. Basically if you own this ship, you could configure her as a trader with only say 26 guns to leave room for cargo or back at your home port, you could mount up the other 20-30 guns on the lower deck and turn her into a warship. This is something that your basic Frigate or SoL won't be able to do so with a ship like this, even if your focused on being a trader, you would have access to a warship as needed. Additional, the fact it could be used for dual roles might actually make them super appealing to even the run of the mill open world player. Instead of having to buy two ships you could switch it up depending on the mood.

I kind of agree. There are a ton of ships from the 1870-1700 time frame that I really, really want to see in game. A Constitution with another deck added just doesn't appeal to me at all. Honestly I don't understand why they are even wanted. Unlike say French, English, Danish, Spanish, etc SoLs which have a long and distinguished history of combat at sea, American SoLs did absolutely nothing. At most they are a footnote in history so you can't even really claim patriotism is what motivates you to want them. At best they would represent most fictional ships in a game based in the rich history of the Age of Sail. Also, sure I am an American so I do absolutely understand the desire to have American ships in the game, however lets focus on real American ships that faced real combat. Ships like the upcoming Rattlesnake and the Constitution. There are also many other Frigates, Corvettes, Sloops-of-War, Brigs and stuff that can be added. America doesn't need a SoL, especially not when there are so, so many other ships like some of the Danish and Dutch designs that are on the perpetual waiting list competing for very limited resources.

Nice ship and one of the few traders I actually would sail.

Probably. She did seem a bit too fragile to me when I was playing her before I got the Bellona.

Looks very much like the Cerberus only with 4 guns moved up to the Quarterdeck. Would be a good alternative ship choice.