Payment Model

[Tacticus]

    OK......How is the money gonna be set up in this game.   I see that we pay $40 at this time to get in to the Alpha version and if I read it correctly this will eventually get us updates and additional parts of the game as time goes on and eventually a copy of the FULL game at a later date. OR....You could also read it as, we get Alpha and Beta, prototype testing and possible additional content but may have to pay extra for the FULL game.  Which is this correct??

 

    Another question is, how will the acquisition of In Game Money happen?  I know they are talking about an economy where ships and fittings could be manufactured by the player community and purchased in game.  This assumes there will be an in game currency.  So a part of my question is how do you acquire in game currency?  Can you buy in game money from Game Labs for real money or will you have to earn it in game?

 

     I see in the info about purchasing the game now that they value the game at $30 and will include a ship valued at $20.  A $50 value for $40.  This implies that we will be able to purchase other ships for a certain amount of real money in the future.  Is this correct??  If that is correct it very strongly implies a PAY TO WIN situation.  With an Open World economy you could, in time, build this or that ship but if you give us money you can have it now.

 

     This is a beautiful game and my heart really wants to jump in and support it.  I would love to put my money in here but my head says we have some unanswered questions.  If I can get answers you can have my money.

 

Questions: 

             1.  Will we get the FULL game for our $40?

             2.  Will we be able to purchase In Game Money for Real Money?

             3.  Will we be able to buy ships for Real Money?

     

Thanks.....

[Sir Madoc]

1. Yes.

2. I hope not.

3. Yes.

[Alictos]

I am pretty sure that this game is not a F2P model instead a P2P (pay to play) like Guild wars 2 ect, so there will be no pay to get ingame money you will have to earn it, ships on the other hand i dont know, but it could be a limited offer thing but probably nothing game breaking, like the yacht ingame atm cool design not many guns ect, but my thoughts say it wont have any of that.

[Prater]

Im pretty sure the devs have said no pay to win. There are many threads exactly like this one.

[Crossfader]

Purchasing in game money for real money usually isnt the problem.... UNLESS, you can buy yourself an unfair advantage. If its only to make life easier aka: make grinding faster, then i dont have any problem with that.

[admin]

We can't afford to be F2P

We want to make a smaller niche group of people happy and want to cut those who are just chasing one game after another. Those free players will require more servers, more support and will not be invested in the game like you are. 

 

We are using Guild Wars 2 mode. Buy to play with a store. 

There will be premium ships like our yacht. 

[Captain_Chis]

Purchasing in game money for real money usually isnt the problem.... UNLESS, you can buy yourself an unfair advantage. If its only to make life easier aka: make grinding faster, then i dont have any problem with that.

It is kind of pay to win being able to buy ships with real money. People could spend hundreds repurchasing 1st rates to take an important port or something.

 

We can't afford to be F2P

We want to make a smaller niche group of people happy and want to cut those who are just chasing one game after another. Those free player will require more servers, more support and will not be invested in the game like you are. 

 

We are using Guild Wars 2 mode. Buy to play with a store. 

There will be premium ships like our yacht. 

Can i ask how premium ships work or is it too early. I would guess premium ships are never lost or something.

[Chustler]

I am curious about what "premium" ships means too.  I hope it is not the same as the "better" ships cost money.  I also hope we don't see any ships beyond starter ships that are "never lost" as he stated above.

 

I have always assumed the store would be related only to cosmetic things or other itmes that have no bearing on the gameplay itself...I hope that is the case.  I'll happily put money into the game, but not if the gameplay is effected by money.

[Munro]

The way other games make premium vehicles work gives a clue about how premium ships could work.

 

However, I think the term 'premium' is a poor choice of name for it and I hope that Game Labs doesn't use it as the official term. 'Premium' has several meanings and while in this case it refers to the item being bought with premium currency (instead of in-game currency), 'premium' used as an adjective (as in 'premium ship') is overwhelmingly used to mean 'better quality' or 'superior' and that can be misleading. 

[greybuscat]

If its only to make life easier aka: make grinding faster, then i dont have any problem with that.

 

Even then, you're basically paying them to not balance the game properly.

[Prater]

I think the premium ships should be pay to unlock. You pay money to unlock them. You then still have to pay in game money/reputation(however we will get ships) to own one. It can then be sunk and lost, but you can buy/build another one with in game money and resources.

The premium ships should not be pay to win.

In my opinion, line ships should be excluded from being premium ships but should be restricted by the admiralty of each nation.

[SYN_Bloody-Bandy]

... In my opinion, line ships should be excluded from being premium ships but should be restricted by the admiralty of each nation.

 

Hopefully no 'pay per ships' over 6th or 5th rate at most. 

 

And BTW, who are going to be the "admirals" anyways?  I understand we'll be able to colonize, exploit resources, trade, create factions, and build our own ships, etc., but who will run the major navies of the world?

[Stuka]

Well I know as of current, the yacht has only 12 guns and only has advantage over the lynx guns wise but it doesn't add to gaining other ships(Except Sant) so I am sure it may be something like that or possibly the War Thunder way in that it's really just a different looking plane/tank with no significant advantage over others of the same tier if any advantage at all. 

[Flip]

I sincerely hope the premium ships are just different skins.

 

I would rather pay a monthly subscription than see a shop loaded with overpriced overpowered ships.

[RAMJB]

I think the premium ships should be pay to unlock. You pay money to unlock them. You then still have to pay in game money/reputation(however we will get ships) to own one. It can then be sunk and lost, but you can buy/build another one with in game money and resources.

 

Pretty much this. Except for very small ships in the same power class as starter ships (I'm expecting the yatch to be more or less in the same class as the starting ship, which I suppose is the lynx), any "premium" ships in open sea should be accesible once paid for them, but then you'd have to invest in-game money to purchase them as any other normal ship. OFC you can sail them all you want in the TDM gamemode.

 

In fact I'm kinda expecting future expansion packs with several ships in this fashion. You have the pack, you can purchase those ships in the open sea. You don't have the pack, you can't purchase them. But getting the expansion pack won't mean that when you log in you'll have a ship ready for action waiting for you in port.

 

 

But that's all speculation. We'll know more when the devs decide we should know more .

[marecek05]

I think a yacht is good example how the premium ships will work.

 

I always thought it is a level 2 ship (as cutter) not a lynx equivalent. You get a ship that has equal number of guns, is sligthly more maneuverable, heels significantly less, but has significantly lower amount of crew. One frigate grape broadside can leave you crewless (never actually happened to me, but it can) and looks significantly nicer.

 

I think that would be a good way, to have interesting ships, with glaring weaknesses and looking nicer :-).

 

As another example of premium ship, i can see a pirate galley. No sails, 2-4 guns (very heavy guns compared to sailships). mounted up front. Low profile, Speed 8 regardless of wind direction. Large amount of crew. Severe maneuver speed and reload penalties for losing said crew.

 

And give her some nice paintjob. And you have an interesting premium vessel.

[Kanay]

We can't afford to be F2P

We want to make a smaller niche group of people happy and want to cut those who are just chasing one game after another. Those free players will require more servers, more support and will not be invested in the game like you are. 

 

We are using Guild Wars 2 mode. Buy to play with a store. 

There will be premium ships like our yacht. 

I don't know about guild wars economic model and will check this more, but what about what we can find inside the file " player_bonus_rate.xml" about "base" and "premium" earnings for XP and money, base being "1" and premium being 1.5, will this apply at some point ?? 

[Flurgh]

I would have hoped that shops would only contain cosmetics or maybe some lower tier ships with fancy looking sails and hull. 

[jgzman]

I am pretty sure that this game is not a F2P model instead a P2P (pay to play) like Guild wars 2 ect, so there will be no pay to get ingame money you will have to earn it, ships on the other hand i dont know, but it could be a limited offer thing but probably nothing game breaking, like the yacht ingame atm cool design not many guns ect, but my thoughts say it wont have any of that.

 

I don't know if you've played GW2 or not but it is quick and easy to turn real money into game money. It's part of the core game systems, up there with the Auction House. I'm glad this is the case, because I'd rather have that then bloody Gold Sellers.

[Sharp]

I would have hoped that shops would only contain cosmetics or maybe some lower tier ships with fancy looking sails and hull. 

 

I think there will be some higher tier ships as well, otherwise as soon as everyone has leveled up above the lower tiers, game labs will not make as much money as before, in short, my guess would be that there will be lower tier and higher tier premium ships but i don't think there will be a vast array of them, considering the yacht is worth $20 how much do you think the higher tiers will be?

[christopher1006]

I like the idea of premium to unlock but you still have to buy or make them. That way, Game Labs gets some money that way but it doesn't unbalance the game.

[Flip]

I like the idea of premium to unlock but you still have to buy or make them. That way, Game Labs gets some money that way but it doesn't unbalance the game.

 

Unless those ships are more powerful than the non-premium ships.

[Max Thundercroc]

My hope and what I see happening with the pay for ships option is that it will be like WoT in the sense that the ships you could buy would be variants of ships you could earn in game. WoT actually has a very good balance between premium and earned tanks. Thier premium tanks are not overpowered but instead might trade out firepower for a better engine our vice versa. This could work well in NA for instance they could offer a premium version of the surprise which could carry extra or heavier cannons but has less armor or maneuverability. You could stop players from just joining and being able to buy a variant of a victory. This could be done with resource management, I.e. you could purchase a victory for $35 but if you do not have the in-game resources to hire a crew, afford the cannons or powder, afford supplies for 600 men, etc. Then you wouldn't be able to use it until your character had the necessary resources, renown, or whatever.

Also I wouldn't mind paying for paint schemes that are only available for purchase and for ships like the yacht a ship that won't make a huge difference to the world but is fun to sail and is nicely modeled and decorated. I could also see things sold like confetti shot for new years or something, it would be hilarious to watch a SoL fire a broadside of confetti at a lynx.

I would be against being able to purchase resources, currency, or large ships that are usable without earning a ship that size.

[Prater]

I'm not against purchasing currency.  Eve after all has plex, but then against you can use plex to monthly subscribe and this doesn't carry a subscription. 

 

Granted, purchasing currency is just plain dumb and would ruin the game for me so I wouldn't want to do it, but I can understand people who don't have the time to sink into the game might want to do that.  And for the rest of us, makes them a big juicy target

[Slamz]

Planetside 2 has probably the best Pay-to-Play model I've seen.

 

I think the short of it is:

 

* Vertical improvements (Y is better than X) come from things you can only earn through in-game play. If you want your cannon to fire faster, you can ONLY earn this via in-game play.

 

* Horizontal improvements (Y is the same power as X, just in a different way) can be earned in-game OR they can be purchased. If you want a gun that's more accurate from long range but sacrifices DPS to do this, you can pay money to access it immediately (the gun is not superior in all cases, and can actually be a liability in a close range fight, so it's not a vertical improvement).

 

* Useless cosmetics are cash store only. You cannot earn them in game.

 

 

I think if Naval Action could follow this model, it might work. "Pay to Win" is when you can pay money for vertical improvements.

 

Just as a specific example from Planetside:

Base newbie tank cannon -- medium splash damage vs infantry, medium damage vs tanks

Armor piercing tank cannon -- tiny splash damage vs infantry, high damage vs tanks

Explosive tank cannon -- huge splash damage vs infantry, low damage vs tanks

 

You can pay to get the two bottom cannons immediately but they aren't really an "upgrade". They're a trade-off. I still use the "newbie" tank cannon sometimes because I want to be more versatile at being able to take on infantry and tanks.

 

Meanwhile, increasing the amount of ammo I can carry or the speed of reload or the sights on my gun can only be earned via in-game skillpoints. These are vertical improvements and cannot be purchased. This could translate pretty well into Naval Action. Everyone can use standard smoothbore cannons which are good for general purpose but if you want to earn the right to use other options, you will need to earn them OR you can pay money and unlock them immediately. They aren't "better" than smoothbore -- they are tradeoffs.

 

Ditto for shot types. Maybe you start off being able to use regular single ball shot. Anything else you'll have to earn OR you can unlock them immediately (e.g., chain) by buying them. A little up front cash can increase your diversity a lot.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Slamz