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Invisibility poll

Invisibility poll  

120 members have voted

  1. 1. Please provide your vote on invisibility and speed boost after battle

    • Keep as it is
      71
    • Reduce by 50%
      20
    • Remove completely
      29


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2 minutes ago, Macjimm said:
  •  Remove completely and add option to log out of game after a successful escape.
  •  Remove completely and add teleport to safety (port) after successful escape.

I liked those option when they were in game and i think they should be back...

1 minute ago, Cortez said:

 

I have nothing to say to you.

Of course you don't, only like the previous 4 posts and now you're busy being all whiney about a random comment... or is it just that you really are one and thats why it hurt so much? If so, im sorry man - there are many fish in the sea ;)

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1 hour ago, Fargo said:

Its always realism vs. gameplay. You could argue the other way round that after a battle you should gain a significant speed boost, cause a 75 minute battle would have lasted only one minute in OW time, so you need to catch up 74 minutes in this case. This would be a realistic compromise, but in terms of gameplay it makes no sense. Denying compressed players to wait for players leaving real time is realistic and does not affect gameplay in a negative way.

Like I said, this works both ways and it's hard if not impossible to find mechanic in game that suits everyone. Also I didnt mention denying anything to anyone.

1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

Well in this case its mostly coincidence though that you met that player leaving a mission, compared to ACTIVELY waiting on an exact battle pos (f11 coords posted by the guy being attacked). It still is an issue though, I agree. Maybe grant a shorter invis timer when leaving a mission, so that it gives the guys leaving mission a fair chance to gain some distance from nearby bandits; and at the same time cant be abused by hopping in and out of a mission on purpose.

I have posted long time ago, that maybe setting up a circle with edges 2-3 mins of sail away from battle location and then leaving to players where exactly they want to spawn on that circle would maybe work. Would be also somewhat realistic as you sail in batle too, so your location would change (note: spawning in exact location of battle end wouldn't work as people staying in battle still can report that). I just don't know if that's doable to code (or if it's not stupid).

21 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

I agree with Liquicity... revenge fleets are much more ganking than the victim of them is a ganker more often than not. The players that voted to remove invisibility without coming up with a better solution are probably the same cucks that sit in the greenzone for pve and only join pvp fights that are massively in their favour / on their terms...

Look, this issue is hard to resolve to every kind of player as it affects everyone. Today you, tommorow the guys from greenzone. No need to call people.

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Let me tell a story and then you guys can think of how many "wrongs" there are in there. There might even be some "rights", who knows.

It is the story of ChuCoMan and how he lost 2 Traders Brigs filled to the brim with goodies. For the sake of argument totaling 1.5M.

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ChuCoMan was quietly sailing along south-west past Mantua on his way to Barcos to sell his stock of Iron Fittings.

When all of a sudden, out of the blue, a British Surprise pulled up beside him.

His initial reaction was to drop all sails and try to call it a night. Were it not that the night belongs to the AUSEZ.

T -5:00 "Battle comms, US double Traders Brigs fleet, scramble at Mantua."

Realizing his mistake he put up his sails again, but the Surprise was ready for his every move.

The Surprise tagged him in battle and a chase began.

T -4:45 "We need a couple more minutes before we can bring 3 fast interceptors."

T -4:40 "Roger, I'll keep him in battle until our fleet is ready."

To his surprise the enemy captain made some bad mistakes and slowly he saw his way clear.

T -2:30 "3 fast interceptors undocking at Mantua, position?"

5 hours ago, Prater said:

My map wasn't just for the community, we had a private version that showed our locations to each other so we could always find each other's battles.

(And that is how ours comms center looks like, with multiple TS channels to keep ourselves appraised of every movement.)

T -2:20 "Just west of Mantua, position 1 on my spot, 1 south-south-west end, 1 at the tip."

T -1:00 "Fleet in position."

Unbeknownst to him a "revenge" fleet had been put into place.

T -0:30 "Preparing for final volley, he thinks he is clear."

T -0:03 "Firing..."

"I made it out", ChuCoMan must have been thinking as he left battle.

Spotting the first Trincomalee on top of his spot, he probably panicked and immediately put up full sails.

T 0:10 "Leaving battle, entering pursuit."

ChuCoMan must have seen the second ship as he steered left to the tip.

T 0:30 "I have a visual at the tip. I have him."

T 0:35 "Tag, I'm coming up straight behind him."

The rest, as they say, is history.

(The Discord transcripts are my best effort to translate Aussie into English, so there may be errors in them. :P)

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3 minutes ago, Skully said:

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So how exactly is this supposed to proove that getting kicked back out straight to OW, without any effect, is working as intended? Because it seems to proove the opposite to me?

Also, weren't you constantly complaining about gankers and forming a ganking heaven? Well then, well done on taking out a captain-rank with probably all his assets

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Just now, Rebrall said:

I'm still confused as to why it needs changed? 

It gives folks a false sense of security and then they set sail.

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1 minute ago, Rebrall said:

I'm still confused as to why it needs changed? 

Please ask the people voting for its removel, i really really would like to know aswell...

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2 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Also, weren't you constantly complaining about gankers and forming a ganking heaven? Well then, well done on taking out a captain-rank with probably all his assets

Where did I complain about gankers and forming a ganking heaven?

If you think this is the worst I have done to prove broken mechanics, then you may want to think again.

Hence now a rookie can't set sail in any big ship as protection for himself.

Something definitely needs fixing here, but it must be done right or not at all. Again,  invisibility + speed boost change nothing with regards to revenge fleets, it is a boon for gankers. Hence it needs to go where it belongs, in the trashcan.

(The best part is that the more I try to convince folks, the more they vote for having invisibility + speed boost. :lol:)

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1 minute ago, Skully said:

 invisibility + speed boost change nothing with regards to revenge fleets, it is a boon for gankers. Hence it needs to go where it belongs, in the trashcan.

well sure it did change revenge fleets? It basically removed them completely?

I'm trying very hard to understand your points, but I simply cant, it doesn't make any sense at all to me. Ganking is what defines an OW MMO; such a game barely ever has any equalish ow pvp. I agree we need some sort of rookie protection, but at some point, if you're sailing a ship alone without any reinforcements  in Range, it's basically your fault to get sunk, it might be harsh but such is life.

it feels like we're talking at cross-purposes, probably because we have different expectations from the game.

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3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

I'm trying very hard to understand your points, but I simply cant, it doesn't make any sense at all to me. Ganking is what defines an OW MMO; such a game barely ever has any equalish ow pvp. I agree we need some sort of rookie protection, but at some point, if you're sailing a ship alone without any reinforcements  in Range, it's basically your fault to get sunk, it might be harsh but such is life.

I fully agree in this part.

3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

well sure it did change revenge fleets? It basically removed them completely?

No it didn't. As I showed I can still easily execute a revenge fleet tactic. And now at the same easily execute a getaway (in enemy waters). Furthermore I can use it to execute the invisibility gank. So we took zero steps forward and two steps back.

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1 minute ago, Skully said:

No it didn't. As I showed I can still easily execute a revenge fleet tactic. And now at the same easily execute a getaway (in enemy waters). Furthermore I can use it to execute the invisibility gank. So we took zero steps forward and two steps back.

now add a 3-5min "you cannot attack" timer (can still be attacked) after leaving a battle; in your scenario, the traders brig would have had the possibility to sail off into an odd direction (because of the speed boost and invisbility), and then log off (2 min logoff timer), so cannot be attacked by you again, since you have just left the battle aswell and have the "you cannot attack timer".

We were saying this, that the "you cannot attack timer", needs to be drastically increased after leaving a battle, since day 1 when invis was added. But I haven't seen a response from admin so far.

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4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

the traders brig would have had the possibility to sail off into an odd direction (because of the speed boost and invisbility), and then log off (2 min logoff timer)

Which in turn can also be abused.

Picture the moment of decision:

  1. Continue playing
  2. Log-off

What information does a player really need to make that decision?

Nothing from the game, everything from RL.

Giving him the composition of enemy assets on the OW for free directly influences this decision. So the player will not show true intent.

Rather a simple log-off at battle screen. (Maybe not with captured ships, but that is a sliding scale.)

Anybody willing to waste time sitting at a point hoping for action, can do just that. That's their decision to make. "My mom always said NA life was like a sandbox of ships. You never know what you're gonna get." :D

(OW is nothing more than an elaborate queuing mechanism, ships can come from anywhere including battle instances. ...Okay, a bit more then...)

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Why can't we have it this way,

 

if a player in a warship is attacked in there own county the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

remove the F11 cords I detest them so much, 

 

remove the ability to to jump into pve missions and give people super speed after the mission is complete no invisibility though gives them a chance to run but still be chased 

 

if you are attacked outside of the county  keep the same rules we have now maybe increase the timer of the not able to be attacked a little maybe 30 seconds and well I'm sorry if you don't have an escort then it's on your own head it's a pvp server not pve bit harsh I'm sorry but sometimes you got to be cruel to be kind 

Edited by Rebrall

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6 hours ago, Skully said:

<snip>

First off, you state you using a third party (essentially GPS) system to track allies/targets and coordinate your ganks like modern fast patrol craft. That not exactly a fair test of the mechanics but we'll go with it.

If the guy had his smuggler flag on, was travelling in just two trader brigs and you were next to Mantua then  all he had to do was use the invis+speed+invul timer and go into Mantau.

Congratulations you caught someone that clearly wasn't thinking ahead.

There is nothing wrong with the new set up. It deters gank fleets but doesn't 100% prevent them. It also gives the lone runner a chance. At least a better chance then he had before.

Edited by Bach

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6 hours ago, Rebrall said:

if a player in a warship is attacked in there own county the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

Picture a battle of 3 Pirates vs 1 Brit, with 3 more Pirates sitting outside eyeballing you. Would you jump in to help?

3 hours ago, Bach said:

First off, you state you using a third party (essentially GPS) system to track allies/targets and coordinate your ganks like modern fast patrol craft. That not exactly a fair test of the mechanics but we'll go with it.

Fair or not isn't the question. The mechanic is there/possible, so it needs to be tested as such.

And yes, OW is very much a modern fast patrol craft game. Whether we like it or not.

3 hours ago, Bach said:

If the guy had his smuggler flag on, was travelling in just two trader brigs and you were next to Mantua then  all he had to do was use the invis+speed+invul timer and go into Mantau.

Objection, speculation. Jury needs to disregard this statement. ^_^

I can show a deeper analysis of the circumstances and other outside influences, but I'm willing to bet ChuCoMan will agree that he had no chance of making it to Mantau. His only option was Corrientes, which was blocked.

3 hours ago, Bach said:

Congratulations you caught someone that clearly wasn't thinking ahead.

Thank you and from what it appears I will catch many more. :lol:

3 hours ago, Bach said:

There is nothing wrong with the new set up. It deters gank fleets but doesn't 100% prevent them. It also gives the lone runner a chance. At least a better chance then he had before.

As long as you keep thinking in terms of a lone hunter (casual) vs a ganker fleet (casual), then yes the balance is likely equal.

As soon as you introduce imbalance it simply falls apart, for example the lone hunter calls in a revenge fleet to augment his already substantial power of invisibility + speed boost.

9 hours ago, Skully said:

When all of a sudden, out of the blue, a British Surprise pulled up beside him.

As for a CONCORD fleet, maybe ask @Sir Texas Sir what he thinks of the difficulty to circumvent 6 1st rates.

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A legend can only come down,

 

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54 minutes ago, Skully said:

As for a CONCORD fleet, maybe ask @Sir Texas Sir what he thinks of the difficulty to circumvent 6 1st rates.

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Awwww is that me taking the baby ducklings for a walk?   They where doing so good with a straight line before I decided to bring them back to ya'll.   

 

As for the after battle thing I have no problem with the invisibility part as it gives folks fair chance of an escape.  My issue is the warp speed that you get.   If you remove that and keep the timer for invisibility I think it would be fine.  The warp speed has been used more by gankers and attackers than it has by the guy running right now and that isn't the reason it was meant for.   So I piked the 50% option since there was none to just remove the warp speed part.  @admin Your poll really should of had an option to remove the warp speed but keep the invisibility as is.

Why we are on this subject another thing we should poll and hopefully remove as the times have changed is the annoying laser accuracy of the stern guns.  It's allows one guy in a Surprise to keep other ships at bay when he hits ever one of his chain shots when a Trinc might miss half his.  I seen them take down sails on several ships about the same speed but no one could hit him other than with ball to keep him in battle and that was inaccurate as crap doing so.  We need to make the Stern and bow guns on par with each other.  Drop the super laser accuracy but maybe make them both a tab bit more accurate than the side guns.

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OK so everyone hates being ganked especial when your outnumbered and the tag and re tag is a extremely painful process so i'm proposing there be an option for the poor bastard being

ganked that if he manages to get away he can have the option to teleport to nearest port to give him that head start because lets face it if u have to log off a game to get away from a battle

that's not promoting people to keep playing this game and knowing that u can get away only to get re-tagged time and time again is just frustrating as well as who ever else is waiting for

you.... But if your the ganker u shouldn't have the option to teleport this should also give the local forces a chance to get to the action and mach/fend off the gankers

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3 minutes ago, balz said:

OK so everyone hates being ganked especial when your outnumbered and the tag and re tag is a extremely painful process so i'm proposing there be an option for the poor bastard being

ganked that if he manages to get away he can have the option to teleport to nearest port to give him that head start because lets face it if u have to log off a game to get away from a battle

that's not promoting people to keep playing this game and knowing that u can get away only to get re-tagged time and time again is just frustrating as well as who ever else is waiting for

you.... But if your the ganker u shouldn't have the option to teleport this should also give the local forces a chance to get to the action and mach/fend off the gankers

I do not want telport to port to return or the battle screen.  To many folks will capture ships and than prot back to safety instead of takeing the time to get that ship back.  We should have the option to capture our ships back if they are a long way from home.  That and the fact traders will tag ships and than telport to get around block-aids (and war ships).   That isn't exactly fair play for all.  

 

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2 hours ago, Skully said:

Picture a battle of 3 Pirates vs 1 Brit, with 3 more Pirates sitting outside eyeballing you. Would you jump in to help?

 

 

i said in your own county fyi :P 

 

and your asking the wrong crazy person btw i jumped into a fight at mort town for sir drop bear who was facing 9 v 1 so yes i would jump in 

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1 hour ago, Skully said:

My own county or your own county? This game is so confusing sometimes. :D

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https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/851596176125359945/8E42D675D31149BF2D066357BCA61EB3E8340063/ )

lol so if you (Dains) jump a GB player in Surrey for example:

if a player (GB) in a warship is attacked in there own county (GB county) the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player(GB) is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker (Dains)  keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

make more sense? 

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14 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

lol so if you (Dains) jump a GB player in Surrey for example:

if a player (GB) in a warship is attacked in there own county (GB county) the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player(GB) is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker (Dains)  keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

make more sense? 

It makes perfect sense.

Nobody will come out to save a casual and we need @Sir Texas Sir to keep the ducklings busy. :D

Just as it is now or was in the past. With or without invisibility.

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14 hours ago, Borch said:

Like I said, this works both ways and it's hard if not impossible to find mechanic in game that suits everyone.

Maybe i dont exactly understand what you mean. What exactly is your argument to allow revenge ganks?

In general the goal is not to please everyone or a majority, the goal is simply to develop a good (realistic) game. No matter how many people would like to revenge gank and to capture their ships back, it wont change anything. Its bad for the game, fact.

 

Sorry for offtopic, but Its just very inefficient to discuss such basic questions that should be beyond dispute. Battle entry has to be restricted, and for the same reason revenge fleets have to be denied. And btw., it would make even less sense to allow revenge fleets while battles are still closing, instead of just keeping battle entries open.

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1 minute ago, Fargo said:

Maybe i dont exactly understand what you mean. What exactly is your argument to allow revenge ganks?

In general the goal is not to please everyone or a majority, the goal is simply to develop a good (realistic) game. No matter how many people would like to revenge gank and to capture their ships back, it wont change anything. Its bad for the game, fact.

 

Sorry for offtopic, but Its just very inefficient to discuss such basic questions that should be beyond dispute. Battle entry has to be restricted, and for the same reason revenge fleets have to be denied. And btw., it would make even less sense to allow revenge fleets while battles are still closing, instead of just keeping battle entries open.

I'm not arguing to allow revenge fleets. I'm all up for fixing that issue, thing is that it's hard, especially if you want to do it in realistic way (btw invisibility and warp speed is not very realistic). Like Skully said invisibility and super speed is not denying revenge fleets at all. It's just a matter of setting your trap right. On the other hand tho, it's helping to attack unsuspecting anything players who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Mechanic that allows revenge fleets to work (OW time compression) is also helping OW hunters in attacking their targets. It's bad for the game both ways. That's why I said it's hard if not impossible to fix it. Maybe the only way to do it is not by developing some magic game mechanic but by spreading pvp action across the map.

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