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Hethwill the Harmless

Questions for the Historians

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Lol yeah true :) nice analogy on the footwear which is not that far fetched and actually can be traced in our technologically age ... :o

 

I would expect the Navy to have a similar, if not better, surgeon record than the army. Will start with the frigate engagements and kick off from there. Cheers.

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During the French Counter-Revolution, has there been any french royalist navy captains fighting against the revolutionaries?

 

Thank you.

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard
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I know the previous question posted by Picard is not yet answered but given the recent discussions surrounding crew casualties;

 

- Do we know, at any point, the total amount of guns put out of action ( and how ) in any engagement or specific moment of any ?

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I know the previous question posted by Picard is not yet answered but given the recent discussions surrounding crew casualties;

 

- Do we know, at any point, the total amount of guns put out of action ( and how ) in any engagement or specific moment of any ?

 

Do you mean by becoming damaged? I can think of a couple of battles where all guns were put out of action because of both sides ran out of gunpowder and ammunition, the obvious one that comes to me is Lepanto. I don't think I have any records of gun losses but you could probably find some inventory lists as ships make it back to port for refit after having fought, while I don't have it you could probably get a good idea from the records following good old Trafalgar.

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I believe, bit correct me if i am wrong, for the 4-days battle. Dutch v English. Were both had to disengage because of the lack of gunpowder, i thought there of the battle a report about how many guns needed to be replaced but i don't know for sure

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I believe, bit correct me if i am wrong, for the 4-days battle. Dutch v English. Were both had to disengage because of the lack of gunpowder, i thought there of the battle a report about how many guns needed to be replaced but i don't know for sure

 

The English were normally equipped with 40 shots per gun, with 10 being added on this occasion.

Several Dutch provision records show that the Dutch carried 60 shots per gun into battle, all be it some smaller ship carried slightly less due to capacity limits.

 

The Dutch side did not report ammunition or powder shortage, the English did.

 

With that said, a book of mine describes the first rake Colingwood's Royal Sovereign did on the Santa Anna: ''That first British broadside disabled some fourteen guns and killed some 300 of the Santa Anna's crew.''

EDIT: take the above with a large pinch of salt, the book has some questionable statements.

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What book? The total reported loses of Santa Ana in the whole battle of Trafalgar were 97 dead and 141 wound.

Rightfull comment, i forgot to add to it that it that the book is somewhat 'dodgy' in certain statement! So to take it with a large pinch of salt.

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Something I have been thinking of the last few days is cannon fire and windows, the pressure generated and the shock wave as a ball leaves the tube and what relation that might have to a nearby window. So really my question is, are there many tests on proximity of gun ports to stern cabins and their windows, was this something that was experimented on during the scientific period and gun placement with regards to naval architecture and if there are any potentially unexpected patterns, for example the pressure generated by a 12lb being something that is more threatening to glass panels than say an 18lb, my assumption being that long guns with lower windage would be more of an issue than shorter with higher windage.

If anyone could shed some light onto any of these queries I would be very grateful. :)

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The glass was removed from stern galleries in combat.

Thank you for your quick reply but I was mainly concerned with when this for whatever reason might not happen, say a ship was ambushed by another or in situations that the glass couldn't be moved for whatever reason, like in the famous opening to master and commander where shots are fired out of fog. I understand keeping glass around is a terrible idea, you don't want shards of it flying everywhere but i'm still interested in the question itself and how much danger of shattering there is to the proximity and size of a gun.

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1lb powder and wad (from a 6lb gun) was sufficient to set off car alarms inside the Nothe when I was there a while ago.

The sound was palpable, but I doubt that it would be enough to break your own glass, even if large ordnance was fired from the aft broadside ports. Your opponent's glass would be broken by the wad if very close and directly in front of the bore. Not sure that it would break from sound alone though, and of course the shot would be a much more significant risk.

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The pressure wave is sound. The result of pressure has a inverse third power relationship, so 8lb of powder (roughly 24lb gun) would result in only twice the radius of a particular overpressure.

I'd avoid pointing the ordnance at anything I wanted to keep... but the effect of the passage of shot and of the muzzle blast offline are IMO exaggerated quite often.

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Isn't pressure from the shooting guns result from the rapid expansion of the gas produced by the gunpowder ignition ?

It is possible to shatter crystal with modulated sound. Would think the same might be possible with some types of glass especially more brittle types.

 

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Could someone please help me work out the differences between L'Hermione, HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia? I am having a hard time differentiating between them, my current understanding is that HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia are the same ship but L'Hermione is different however they are both 32 gun 12 pounder frigates built around the same time. The whole thing seems a little sticky and messy for me, any explanations would be wholly appreciated, especially if they looked completely different.

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Quote

Might give me some initial point to cross reference the ship construction wood of choice and the resulting action casualties for a non-factual correlation, for a start.

I can guarantee you'll find no relationship.

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Impossible anyways, as you are not going to find any historical action where the only variable between two opponents was the type of wood used in construction.

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14 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Could someone please help me work out the differences between L'Hermione, HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia? I am having a hard time differentiating between them, my current understanding is that HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia are the same ship but L'Hermione is different however they are both 32 gun 12 pounder frigates built around the same time. The whole thing seems a little sticky and messy for me, any explanations would be wholly appreciated, especially if they looked completely different.

L'Hermione was a French-built 12pdr frigate, and now has a modern replica under sail.  If you search here or on the internet, you will find lots of material on the recent replica, which is true to her historical appearance.  This is not yet in NA.

HMS Hermione was a British-built 12pdr frigate that mutinied and went over to Spain, who renamed her Santa Cecilia.  She was then retaken by the British and renamed again as HMS Retribution.  Possibly this will only be in the game as Santa Cecilia to distinguish from the French L'Hermione.

Both ships have similar firepower (main battery of 26x 12pdr), but the French L'Hermione is a larger ship.

Edited by akd
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On 28/12/2016 at 3:55 PM, akd said:

L'Hermione was a French-built 12pdr frigate, and now has a modern replica under sail.  If you search here or on the internet, you will find lots of material on the recent replica, which is true to her historical appearance.  This is not yet in NA.

HMS Hermione was a British-built 12pdr frigate that mutinied and went over to Spain, who renamed her Santa Cecilia.  She was then retaken by the British and renamed again as HMS Retribution.  Possibly this will only be in the game as Santa Cecilia to distinguish from the French L'Hermione.

Both ships have similar firepower (main battery of 26x 12pdr), but the French L'Hermione is a larger ship.

Funny thing is that HMS Hermione was retaken by HMS Surprise, small world...;)

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On ‎20‎.‎04‎.‎2016 at 7:50 PM, Wilson09 said:

How was wind speed measured during this time frame ?

(What do you mean by "time frame"? 1600 -1820?)

 

Answer: Beaufort Scale,

question answered from 1805-1820

 

What was before?

Nothing. The main Problem is (or was) that you cant measure wind Speed on a ship that goes with the wind and the beaufort scale is not a practical way to measure wind Speed on a sail ship. the sailors measured only the Speed of her ship in knots - done with a ship log and a hourglass.

And also with the beaufort scale, the sailors had to guess how strong the wind was and a look to the water Surface as confirmation.

 

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A new question (kind of related also with the game reality ).

 

- Why did powerful naval nations deploy long range chase frigates to cover the seas instead of more ships of the line ? What aspects made one the obvious choice over the other ? What made a frigate more suitable for that task ?

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