Exp Gain By Trading

[Exwin]

I would like to suggest a path for a pure trader, where allows EXP and level gain via profit for a true trading character, a merchant class if you will.

 

I'm not saying it should be easy in a sea filled with Pirates and Privateers, but those of us that like to play mindlessly at work, don't tell my boss, a merchant path would be awesome!!

 

I would be ok with baring this path with some of the upper tier warships until criteria are met, but for the path of the trader, those aren't the types of ship that interest us anyway. Give me a fast ship with a good hold anyway.

[Jord]

I like this. I think pure trader should be a viable way to play. I'd like to see trade missions generated for ports that need certain goods providing the distances are significant. The increase in trading players would then provide more opportunities for piracy and mercenary fleet guards for players to guard a trader.

[maturin]

If we get Trader XP, it will be a separate progression scale. No crafting a ton of bricks and suddenly getting an admiral's commission.

[GrapeShot]

Crafting is not trading. Right now pure traders (I am not one btw) have no means of leveling up.

To progress cafters craft and fighters fight, traders do what?

Edited January 26, 2016 by GrapeShot

[maturin]

Crafting is not trading. Right now pure traders (I am not one btw) have no means of leveling up.

To progress cafters craft and fighters fight, traders do what?

So what, we want three different XP scales?

 

I can't imagine any but a tiny handful of players restricting themselves to trade only, never crafting.

 

Why would you restrict yourself to re-selling raw materials when you could be providing players with Manufactured items for shipbuilding?  

[Puppet]

Just make it so trade unlocks a merchant XP line that will allow a captain to pilot bigger trade vessels the further up he goes.

Have normal combat XP also fill the merchant line that way you can have both of nest world's. Plus it's probably easier to rise in the trader shipping than military when it commands to commanding larger ships.

[maturin]

 

 

Just make it so trade unlocks a merchant XP line that will allow a captain to pilot bigger trade vessels the further up he goes. 

Thing is, even a frigate-sized indiamen doesn't need that many men to operate. A snow's worth, maybe.

[Quineloe]

I don't understand why people are  so opposed to others progressing in different ways in a _sandbox_ game.

[Marten van de Voerde]

I don't understand why people are  so opposed to others progressing in different ways in a _sandbox_ game.

This. Current need for mindless repetitive grind of combat missions is something that can scare away people with desire to focus on peacefull activities. Sure, keep combat ships locked to them, but allow them to operate. After all more traders (and crafters too) means better world of everyone - more targets to hunt and more, better ships available for buying.

[Ridik]

I don't think traders honestly need XP because you are truly after gold, but I would rather the current trading be fixed to where I can earn more money by trading than by doing missions.

The current economy needs to be fixed before giving xp to traders.

[maturin]

I don't understand why people are  so opposed to others progressing in different ways in a _sandbox_ game.

If it's a sandbox, why are we trying to shoehorn in progression at all?

[Fluffy Fishy]

Thing is, even a frigate-sized indiamen doesn't need that many men to operate. A snow's worth, maybe.

Crew in this game is quite overstated until you get to the larger ships, a traders cutter or lynx would be happy with 2 sailors and usually sailed with a spare in case one got ill. Trading brigs and snows would be more likely to sail with around the region of between 5-15 crew, depending on ability of the crew, and large indiaman would probably take 10-20, remember crew eat up on profits so it doesn't make sense to overcrew your trading boats. The extra crew in this is still too much for a requisitioned trading ship fitted for battle. The whole thing is done more for balance than it is for realistic design.

[Jord]

I don't think traders honestly need XP because you are truly after gold, but I would rather the current trading be fixed to where I can earn more money by trading than by doing missions.

The current economy needs to be fixed before giving xp to traders.

 

Well traders need larger ships too so makes sense for some form of progression to better ships.

[AKPyrate]

Crew in this game is quite overstated until you get to the larger ships, a traders cutter or lynx would be happy with 2 sailors and usually sailed with a spare in case one got ill. Trading brigs and snows would be more likely to sail with around the region of between 5-15 crew, depending on ability of the crew, and large indiaman would probably take 10-20, remember crew eat up on profits so it doesn't make sense to overcrew your trading boats. The extra crew in this is still too much for a requisitioned trading ship fitted for battle. The whole thing is done more for balance than it is for realistic design.

 

Cutters might do with 3 crew, but schooners usually had 4 and a ship's boy.  And this information is from the later 19th Century coastal schooners, so the rigging at that point was easier to maintain.  That said, a crew of 8 or so would be fine for an oceangoing schooner.  One of the major considerations would be how many people it took to hoist the sails and reef them when it came on to blow, plus a little safety margin for injuries/sickness/death.

 

As for this whole idea of trader leveling, I don't really see why it can't use the crafting progression, and I know there was talk of having an exploration progression as well.  Besides, if your aim is purely trade, you can always undercrew a larger ship.  Sure, it would decrease your ability to defend yourself against pirates or belligerent nations, but that's realistic.  Or hire escorts.  Let's face it, even in a well armed Indiaman, cargo was king, not fighting effectiveness.  The crews were smaller than an equivalently gunned frigate, and often there was cargo that prevented a clear fighting deck.  This and other considerations (usually smaller cannons that often were not cared for as well as naval guns, sometimes many of them were quakers instead of firing guns, etc.) would make merchant ships fairly easy pickings for frigates, and even often smaller vessels.  Their deck height would possibly help them in a boarding situation, but they were quite vulnerable when sailing alone.  So, if you're solely a merchant, earn money with smaller vessels and eventually buy larger ones.  The small crew will just increase your need for a consort or convoy.

[Macjimm]

This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone for the input.

Some of us might think that it is unfair to not receive experience for trading. After all, for players who do not wish to fight a great many battles it seems like a penalty to have little or no opportunity to progress.

But after reading the responses one might ask ... Why do we need more XP?

Larger ships ? Sounds like we can easily sail a larger sized vessel with an undersized crew. And it seems somewhat silly (if that's not too strong a word) for traders to be sailing SOLs, especially a fully crewed and gunned SOL.

Prestige? Perhaps players could be issued some type of award, ribbon or flag that they can display (hope there is an option to hide it in the captains cabin.)

Opportunity? It may someday be possible for trading XP to grant special privileges like; limited access to restricted ports - (imagine the risk), or a discount on purchases linked to volume.

It may be possible to develop the trading aspect so that nations with skilled traders have a slight productive advantage. Trading XP could be distinctly different from Combat XP but just as valuable.

Personally I may be content to trade just for the fun but surely we can figure out a way to allow traders a little reward. There should be a way without destroying the battle gameplay for the rest.

[Fluffy Fishy]

Cutters might do with 3 crew, but schooners usually had 4 and a ship's boy.  And this information is from the later 19th Century coastal schooners, so the rigging at that point was easier to maintain.  That said, a crew of 8 or so would be fine for an oceangoing schooner.  One of the major considerations would be how many people it took to hoist the sails and reef them when it came on to blow, plus a little safety margin for injuries/sickness/death.

 

As for this whole idea of trader leveling, I don't really see why it can't use the crafting progression, and I know there was talk of having an exploration progression as well.  Besides, if your aim is purely trade, you can always undercrew a larger ship.  Sure, it would decrease your ability to defend yourself against pirates or belligerent nations, but that's realistic.  Or hire escorts.  Let's face it, even in a well armed Indiaman, cargo was king, not fighting effectiveness.  The crews were smaller than an equivalently gunned frigate, and often there was cargo that prevented a clear fighting deck.  This and other considerations (usually smaller cannons that often were not cared for as well as naval guns, sometimes many of them were quakers instead of firing guns, etc.) would make merchant ships fairly easy pickings for frigates, and even often smaller vessels.  Their deck height would possibly help them in a boarding situation, but they were quite vulnerable when sailing alone.  So, if you're solely a merchant, earn money with smaller vessels and eventually buy larger ones.  The small crew will just increase your need for a consort or convoy.

Sailing a large schooner with 3 crew is perfectly possible and wasn't infrequent, it did depend on the handiness of the rigging and how able the crew were, large ocean voyages would often take an extra pair of hands to spread risk but we are talking for the most part the trading is archepelligo hopping and medium distance trade which took less crew than most would think. when it comes to the defensiveness of trade ships it was well known that a good round ship like a brig was incredibly defensible, their high sides made them surprisingly difficult to board.