Prater Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The idea:We need more small ships to help the new player experience. These ships are a lot smaller than everything else, and so hopefully several could be made without taking up a bunch of time. Feel free to add more ship plans My idea is this. We get more small vessels: luggers, ketches, hoys, etc, 2-6 or so guns. The new player starts out as a Midshipman captaining one of these (maybe the hoy). This is in a tutorial screen where the player is taught the controls and basics of how to sail the ship. After this, the player, who is on coastal patrol, gets attacked by pirates or comes across a smuggler, who is also in one of these small ships, and the player is then taught the basics of combat and boarding. The player wins, gets sent to Port, and the tutorial explains the port screen. The admiralty then gives the new player an 8 gun ketch or lugger. The new player now has a larger and better ship, a step up in the world and a sense of progress. From there the admiralty charges the new player to leave port and hunt down smugglers that are in the area around the starting location in large numbers (1-2 ships per fleet at max). The player hunts these down, gets xp, gold, sends the ships back to port or to the admiralty, and gets money and xp and admiralty points built up. On promotion to Ensign, the admiralty recommends the player broaden their experience. 66ft (Dutch???) Hoy Dutch hoys were 2 masted (as opposed to British hoys which were usually single-masted). The British bought 19 66ft 4 gun (3 carronades + 1 24lber) hoys from the Dutch in the 1790s that were involved in some battles. Hayling (1760)British Single-masted hoy Eclair (1795)British 3 gun Lugger Le Coureur8 gun Lugger. Cherokee (1774) 6 Gun Ketch Fly (1752) 8 gun ketch. Green ink is modifications that were added to make it ship rigged. Shark (1732) 8 gun ketch 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raat Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This is a great idea actually. And would make shallow areas of the map like the Bahamas a lot more populated. So much of the map is dead, largely because of the player count, but also because there's no real reason to go to certain areas of the map. If players were forced to spend more time in the smaller ships, not only would that make shallow water areas more enticing, but also has the indirect benefit of making getting a larger frigate or a SoL that much more rewarding later in the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeShot Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) A good idea. I also think small ships are a lot of fun to play as well as useful in large parts of the Bahamas. Raatha -- we think alike regarding the Bahamas. Edited October 10, 2015 by GrapeShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) French barque longue "La Belle" (Trader and exploration ship) 1680, 54 ft, 6 guns. Source : http://modelisme.arsenal.free.fr/artdumodelisme/La%20Belle/index.html Plans and information : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4686-french-barque-longue-la-belle-1680-with-plans-updated-6215/ Edited October 14, 2015 by LeBoiteux 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 10 guns The style of sloops build out of Bermuda: Or the similar Jamaica style sloops. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) There are a couple of smaller armed ships in the website that i used as a source for my previous posts if you are interested.The problem is that there is almost no chance of finding any plans for them because most of them were made by memorizing the lines and the specialties of each ship,especially in Greece.Although the models are pretty accurately made based on books.Let me know if you want me to post them.They are mainly medditerenean styled. Edited October 10, 2015 by Sella22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Sure, go ahead and post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 First one is called Mistiko(Secret in Greek) because it was mostly used for raids,piracy,landings and carrying messages.They weighed around 20-30 tons and they were about 14 meters long. The armament varied:4 small cannons(im guessing 6 pounders)+ 2 small bow cannons or instead 2 swivel guns at the bow. Images: I have more but i need to translate them a bit and do some research first.I will keep posting them from time to time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 We should absolutely have a lugger, not just for historical reasons but for pure aesthetic interest. As unique as any xebec. PotBS was excellent in regard to small vessels. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipLip Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Mr Prater - where did you get the plans from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 If you click on the links of the names of the ships, it will take you to the British Maritime Museum database of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Maybe this beautiful little galley could make make an appearance at some point? Danish 10 Gun Galley. "Achilles". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Speaking of mediterranean ships and galleys : French Galley "La Fleur de Lys" (1690) (studied by G. Delacroix) La Fleur de Lys was an ordinary galley of the French galley corps under Louis XIV. Monograph with plans and pics http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquette-e.htm http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquetteA4.pdf Edited October 11, 2015 by LeBoiteux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) French lugger Le Coureur (The Runner), 1776 66 ft, 8 guns Source : http://b.rimlinger.free.fr/images/coureur/coureur-01.jpg History : Together with the frigate La Belle-Poule (1765), Le Coureur was engaged in the first naval combat of the American Revolutionary War on 17 June 1778. Plans and monograph : http://ancre.fr/en/monographies-en/50-monographie-du-coureur-lougre-1776.html?search_query=coureur&results=4 See OP : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7326-small-ships-and-the-new-player-experience/?p=137916 Sources : http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=19238 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Coureur Pics : http://b.rimlinger.free.fr/coureur01.htm Edited October 11, 2015 by LeBoiteux 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theuerdank Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I would also like also at beginning if dutch 'captains' get a 'small' dutch ship, french a french construction... and so on. Nearly for all Nations (and we chose Nations) its possible. Clear, NA is still 'under construction' and not a polished game, but not only as far away goal, more than a 'should/must be' as soon as possible to create. Same for all ship-types. Not only ww2 or ww1 games should have their 'real' national gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) I would also like also at beginning if dutch 'captains' get a 'small' dutch ship, french a french construction... and so on. (...) Same for all ship-types. There are pros and cons. It'd give each nation a special flavor. But it'd give Devs lots of work. And some would be redundant. Besides, IRL, ships were captured, reused and duplicated by the enemy. Some ships were designed or built by foreign shipyards. Ship architects travelled... And moreover, in NA, if we were to play only one character or one nation (as I think we will), I'd really hate not to be able to sail this or that ship just because of my ingame nationality. Just my opinion . Edited October 11, 2015 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theuerdank Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Sure, its a lot work, and NA is still in more early development phase. Anyway every 'Nation' absolutely same equipment? Then i don't need Nations, only playerbased guilds as factions. Why designing Nations if its only a phrase (or its only satisfying player-patriots)? Starting with a 'special' ship and have also later special ships does not mean that a dutch captain cannot sail a french-built ship. But building a ship in a dutch harbour should mean designing a Nations-design. We don't need so called historical or modern Nations if there are no single 'rules' for those. I am not dutch but if i chose dutch i want also play as dutch and not only because we must chose a faction. But again, its much work to design ships, it is not designing new gameplay, its a diligent but routine piece of work, no weeks of puzzles and brainstorming, more and only converting existing plans to virtual 3-D. Edited October 12, 2015 by Theuerdank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) A Sacoléva (or Sacolève)* (62 ft, early XIX-th century) That's a very common (even now) and old type of small coaster used in Greece and Turkey. No gun, but the plan is so interesting... See the high stern. For The love of curiosity . For NA fishermen and newcomers . Source : http://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-national-marine/app/collection/record/8941 Source : http://www.panteek.com/Paris/pages/prs91-342.htm One can read 1835 on the plan, but it may be the date of the drawing (by frenchmen in voyage in Greece), not that of the building. Finding by Wagram : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/user/14746-wagram/ Thx !!! ____________________________ (*Sorry, I don't know the english term.) Edited November 14, 2015 by LeBoiteux 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Whoa, that raking mast is crazy. And I didn't know of any large sprit rigs in the Mediterranean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 The design in general is way older than the date on the plan.It actually can be traced back to the byzantine times. Some more pictures: Here is one with the Greek-Ottoman flag And here is a picture with sail plans used on traditional ships.If you recognise any and know the english naming please share it because i only know the names in greek. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I can't characterize all the sailplans, but (1) and (3) have lateen sails. (3), (4) and (5) have gaff sails. (11) has lugsails. The mainsail on (7) and (10) are sprit-rigged. The sail on (8) is an early bermuda or marconi rig. (12) is a typical schooner and (13) looks like a 19-th century brigantine. Otherwise, the single-masted rigs could broadly be called sloops, and the two-masted rigs are ketches, yawls or shallops. The tiny triangular sail on the stern of (9) is a marconi sail, set on a jigger mast. (7), (9) and (10) have square-rigged topsails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) And here is a picture with sail plans used on traditional ships.If you recognise any and know the english naming please share it because i only know the names in greek. A french lexicon with pics on NA french forum (it can help people to communicate with each other ) : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3297-références-diverses-et-variées/?p=98579 Edited October 14, 2015 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Number 9: http://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=263:tserniki-06&catid=128:wsm-tserniki&Itemid=550〈=el A french lexicon with pics on NA french forum (it can help people to communicate with each other ) : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3297-références-diverses-et-variées/?p=98579 Well that basically explains everyting!Much obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Number 9: http://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=263:tserniki-06&catid=128:wsm-tserniki&Itemid=550〈=el Well that basically explains everyting!Much obliged. Here is also the french name of the sails from top to bottom (on the pic) : - voile latine - voile au tiers - voile à livarde - voile à corne (plus fléche) pour un gréement aurique - voile à corne (plus hunier) pour un gréement aurique - voile carrée - voile bermudiène Edited October 14, 2015 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Im in love Look at how cute this one is: http://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=255:bombarda-03&catid=126&Itemid=547〈=el 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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