Jeremiah O'Brien Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I guess You paid for your mobile too. In Addition to this fact, do you have to pay a monthly fee to be able to use it? If not, please tell me about your provider. Your point is invalid. The devs have already stated, repeatedly, that this game will be "pay once, play forever." In fact, the entire discussion on this thread about subscription fees is irrelevant. I don't know why it's still being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You're still looking at this game like it's WoT or WT. Players 'skipping the grind' in those games is fine because you're going to be matched up before battles anyway, it makes no difference if the enemy paid to be there or if he spent 200 hours grinding it out. There also no larger picture, each battle is there to be won and no other goals are set outside of this. There are no advantages to Premium vehicles and premium account in that sense. Gold ammo is something else entirely. However, in an open world sandbox when the grind is making cash to buy, upgrade and repair ships any players skipping this will obviously be at a great advantage as, while the players without the cash are off grinding the paying players are sacking ports and attacking shipping. This is where the imbalance is. As for giving players with limited time the ability to skip the grind.. why? That is effectively the game, the 'grind' should be fun and should be mandatory for everyone. Giving the option for time restricted players to skip the grind opens up the door for non-time restricted players to skip the grind also so by solving one problem for few creates another for everyone to deal with. I'm sorry but premium content should be restricted to aesthetic content only in my opinion. Myabe you could pay for some unique things like to remove pirate status (with a one week waiting time from the time you first transgress) but any advantage gained from paid for content is unfair in one way or another. FYI: Devs have said (this might have changed but I'm not aware of it) you can buy a Prem ships but unless you're of a certain rank you may not be able to fully crew it. So you wont be able to jump straight into a 3rd rate from the off. I don't think he meant skip the "grind" entirely, rather you can pay extra to acquire xp/gold faster. Similar to buying a premium account for those other games, you are still in the grind to get the next upgrade or ship, etc. I think your point about the leveling mechanism would also apply to NA in that case. You have someone with less time who buys a ship that generates xp faster and you have someone who has more time but plays with a regular ship, the xp gain may even out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I don't think he meant skip the "grind" entirely, rather you can pay extra to acquire xp/gold faster. Similar to buying a premium account for those other games, you are still in the grind to get the next upgrade or ship, etc. I think your point about the leveling mechanism would also apply to NA in that case. You have someone with less time who buys a ship that generates xp faster and you have someone who has more time but plays with a regular ship, the xp gain may even out in the end. I know it's going to take me forever to unlock things and do grinds due to my play time. If I can pay a little to speed it up its a nice thing. For example I'm an average player in WOT, took me 11 months to unlock my first tier 10 more to time constraints than anything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackeye Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) You're still looking at this game like it's WoT or WT. Players 'skipping the grind' in those games is fine because you're going to be matched up before battles anyway, it makes no difference if the enemy paid to be there or if he spent 200 hours grinding it out. There also no larger picture, each battle is there to be won and no other goals are set outside of this. There are no advantages to Premium vehicles and premium account in that sense. Gold ammo is something else entirely. This isn't strictly true..... it is in fact much more clever than that. If you do not pay you end up always being put in games where everyone else is further up the food chain than yourself (ie higher ranking), which is a very unsubtle way to encourage you to want to spend money to stand a better chance. For me this had the opposite effect (for starters at that time i was playing it I had no spare cash), and I stopped playing in frustration. Wargaming have put a lot of effort in to studying the psychology of players and know exactly how to tweak them to extract as much cash as they possibly can (usually from kids). It's very very clever and insidious - and something I want no part in. If I ever feel that NA is taking the same route I will get my coat, head straight out the door and not look back..... Having said that I don't mind having paid content where it does not impact the balance of the game or interfere with the general game play of those who can't or won't pay (for what ever reason). A decent model for this is Arma 3, where you can buy DLC packs that add some extra weapons and some fun side elements (kart racing, for instance ), but the purchases don't get in the way of others who don't have them from playing the game they love. Edited May 14, 2015 by slackeye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I don't think he meant skip the "grind" entirely, rather you can pay extra to acquire xp/gold faster. Similar to buying a premium account for those other games, you are still in the grind to get the next upgrade or ship, etc.. Whether they gain an advantage of 50% less grind time or 10% it's still an advantage over the others. You have someone with less time who buys a ship that generates xp faster and you have someone who has more time but plays with a regular ship, the xp gain may even out in the end. Perhaps if premium content was limited to players who aren't able to play as much this point may stand but the simple fact is that it won't. Players who can't play so often will still be playing catch-up on players who play 5 times as much, because they'll be buying the premium content too. The only consequences of it are GL get paid and players who can't/won't pay are at a disadvantage to everyone else. I appreciate GL need funding. I appreciate premium content won't be as appealing if it doesn't give the buyer an advantage. I'm just trying to point out that the 'as long as the ships aren't more powerful then there won't be an advantage' argument doesn't work in an open world sandbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 i got the feeling that the thread keeps being pushed back and forth. premiumships will be cosmetic only or gift from community events. will in the end be old 1600-1690 ships where and 40-50gun ship would be the size of an later 74gun ship and worse in handling than an later 38gun ship. Wappen von Hamburg(1669) vs HMS Leopard(1790) 26x18lbs 22x24lb 18x8lbs 22x12lb +some rubish 2-4lbs 6x6lb and atm we have more important things to do than prenium ships. the only premium ships sofar are two of wich none will be aviable after steam early acces. Yacht: gift to the ones that Pre-Ordered Gunboat: gift to the ones that pre-ordered befor the 1st of January 2015 i lost track of the number of sleepless nights worrying about pay2win in Naval Action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Wish I could of got those lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah O'Brien Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Although there have been some great discussions in this thread, it seems to me that it no longer serves much purpose. It has already been said that the game will not be "pay to win," and the payment plan for NA is, as the devs put it, "pay once and play forever." As for premium ships, I think all concerns about them have been answered, and any advantages to having a ship with "infinite durabilities" have been sufficiently negated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Although there have been some great discussions in this thread, it seems to me that it no longer serves much purpose. It has already been said that the game will not be "pay to win," and the payment plan for NA is, as the devs put it, "pay once and play forever." As for premium ships, I think all concerns about them have been answered, and any advantages to having a ship with "infinite durabilities" have been sufficiently negated. Aye perhaps lock this now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schuetzengel Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 just one more thing: is it clear now how much the performance of a premium ship is better than that of a non exceptional crafted ship? also how big is the economic difference between a non exceptional built ship and an exceptional one? and how much crew will we get with our premium ship related to our rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Cloudsley-Shovell Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Dear God!That Gunboat looks well dodgy!I assume the Guns are on a swivel mount! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 nope jsut standart caronade mounting just one more thing: is it clear now how much the performance of a premium ship is better than that of a non exceptional crafted ship? also how big is the economic difference between a non exceptional built ship and an exceptional one? and how much crew will we get with our premium ship related to our rank? 1 depends on what actuall "ship" we will be geting later that could be considered a problem something around 20-30 guns still there will be the repair cost together with the moduls that could be lost that you put on these. 2 if its going to be an old bulky 40gun ship form the 1600 region than she would be no match to an 38gun leda class currently ingame. 3 no information on that right now but when it stays liek now you wont be getting any crew from just buying a ship after all these will in the end be only gifts for donating and atm we dont like taking someone's money without giving anything in return. as such we have no intresst in adding something that would brake the game sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 As for premium ships, I think all concerns about them have been answered, and any advantages to having a ship with "infinite durabilities" have been sufficiently negated. Can you please elaborate on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The problem is once you introduce premium ships etc, more players wan them and get upset when they dont have access to them. Regardless of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 As for premium ships, I think all concerns about them have been answered, and any advantages to having a ship with "infinite durabilities" have been sufficiently negated. They most certainly have not, having a fleet of premium ships would give a great advantage over a fleet of non premium ships if they are without durabilities and with similar repair cost. It could also possibly add a gold and exp per hour advantage while leveling up. Both of those but first especially could be argued to be pay to win. They are not implemented yet so I am making no case for it yet but to say that enough reason for concerns to be sufficiently negated has been given is simply false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Only if the premium ships are OP. As far as potential xp boost etc there are ways to negate that or make the benefits harder to use. If there are durabilities attached to premium ships then i doubt many would pay for a ship they have to buy again with real money. Such ships would be promary yargets for griefers/gankers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Only if the premium ships are OP. It's already been stated that they won't be but this is simply wrong. Even if they're weaker they're at an advantage because they'll be back in the fight before the non Premium ships. Why is this so hard to understand...? If there are durabilities attached to premium ships then i doubt many would pay for a ship they have to buy again with real money. If the cost is kept down they definitely would. Remember the main reason cited for buying them is to reduce the grind for busy players. Such ships would be promary yargets for griefers/gankers This is a moot point if gankers are of a mind to troll paying players specifically they'll do it anyway, whether it costs the player a couple of dollars to replace or a couple of hours grinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 It's already been stated that they won't be but this is simply wrong. Even if they're weaker they're at an advantage because they'll be back in the fight before the non Premium ships. If that is one of the benefits, who says it would be? If they have the same repair cost/time then it's a moot point. If the cost is kept down they definitely would. Remember the main reason cited for buying them is to reduce the grind for busy players. If premium ships are added, I have yet to see anything along the lines of a price point. But if it's in the league of other games and costing 30 dollars or more then the durabilities would be a limiting factor. I'm sure some players would not mind paying 30,40, dollars or more. But the majority would not likely spend the cost of a new game on a ship they will lose permanently. This is a moot point if gankers are of a mind to troll paying players specifically they'll do it anyway, whether it costs the player a couple of dollars to replace or a couple of hours grinding. Expensive vehicles are always a target.even to people who don't normally care.You ever hear about the 600 dollar gold tank on WOT, gets killed by its own team in the first minute of just about every match, and that one is replaceable. Griping and ganking premium ships will be a priority for people, especially if they can be lost and only way to replace is re-buy it with real cash. If it's a. 50 dollar ship it's screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Expensive vehicles are always a target.even to people who don't normally care.You ever hear about the 600 dollar gold tank on WOT, gets killed by its own team in the first minute of just about every match, and that one is replaceable. Griping and ganking premium ships will be a priority for people, especially if they can be lost and only way to replace is re-buy it with real cash. If it's a. 50 dollar ship it's screwed. I've seen that tank team killed in videos but we aren't talking about a gold ship here we're talking about premium ships that are going to be common place, which if they were to come with regular durabilities wouldn't cost anywhere near the same amount as a regular premium tank in WoT and nobody goes around team killing them.. On top of that you team kill a ship in NA and you're a pirate, and fair game to anyone for the duration of that account's life. Nobody is going to do that. If they're an enemy ship, they're no more likely to attack a premium ship than they are a regular one. It's a nothing point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 No one wants to be a pirate? Ill pretend the clans dedicated to piracy dont exsist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 My suggestion (this was suggested by someone before) is to solve it with a blueprint. When you buy it you get 5 durabilities, once those are gone you get a blueprint that lets you make another premium ship of 5 duras. You still get a nice ship with unique look with no permanent boost to your gameplay. To negate grind sell premium ship for ingame currency thus getting a one time boost to your wallet. What I am saying is I want nothing that affects a character permanently bought with real money other than visuals. That is of course my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 No one wants to be a pirate? Ill pretend the clans dedicated to piracy dont exsist Clearly not what I'm saying is it. Given the finality of the decision and the array of consequences, it will be a more thought out than simply turning pirate on a whim. Nobody is going to do it just because they feel the need to sink a premium ship. My suggestion (this was suggested by someone before) is to solve it with a blueprint. When you buy it you get 5 durabilities, once those are gone you get a blueprint that lets you make another premium ship of 5 duras. You still get a nice ship with unique look with no permanent boost to your gameplay. To negate grind sell premium ship for ingame currency thus getting a one time boost to your wallet. What I am saying is I want nothing that affects a character permanently bought with real money other than visuals. That is of course my opinion. It would be better if a little more complicated. I would have them come with limited durabilities but the same characteristics as all the other ships in the game. I would charge nominal fee's for them, $1 or $2 each but with a cool down so that you could only buy them once every 24 hours. Players could skip the grind but only once a day, ideal for those that only play an hour or so per night. That way it would only serve negligible benefit to players who can afford to put more time in. It wouldn't stop the less well off from trying the premium ships either and I think long term, given that this is something of a niche game it will generate repeat custom, even when the niche market is fully saturated and the regular type premium sales would have petered out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) so i think premium ships are great, but i do see the problem with the infinite durability. one way to solve this is to put a cooldown period once the ship is lost. make it to were the ship has 5 durability just like every other ship the only difference is that after the durability on you prem ship runs out you dont have to buy it again you just have to wait some time to be able to sail it again(15 min or so) that way they cant constantly keep coming back to the fight without taking some risk. if they run out of durability for the prem they have to use another ship until the prem durability is back. Edit: they still should have to repair premium ships regardless Edited May 20, 2015 by Legioneod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Edit: they still should have to repair premium ships regardless you have to repair them, people forget this the whole time thinking about artifical nonesense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Clearly not what I'm saying is it. Given the finality of the decision and the array of consequences, it will be a more thought out than simply turning pirate on a whim. Nobody is going to do it just because they feel the need to sink a premium ship. It would be better if a little more complicated. I would have them come with limited durabilities but the same characteristics as all the other ships in the game. I would charge nominal fee's for them, $1 or $2 each but with a cool down so that you could only buy them once every 24 hours. Players could skip the grind but only once a day, ideal for those that only play an hour or so per night. That way it would only serve negligible benefit to players who can afford to put more time in. It wouldn't stop the less well off from trying the premium ships either and I think long term, given that this is something of a niche game it will generate repeat custom, even when the niche market is fully saturated and the regular type premium sales would have petered out. It really depends on if they allow players to make amends and lose their pirate status, and how complicated it is. Also don't forget players are willing to risk permenent bans over TK, I some how doubt being labeled a pirate is the deterrent many think it may be. As to the 1or 2 dollar suggestion, it would not be worth it in the long run. Sure you are preying on people with compulsive spending issues but given the amount of time and money it takes to research, model etc the ships would it balance out in the long run? Seems kinda FarmVille ish to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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