Should Danmark-Norge och Sverige be Neutral Nations?

[jodgi]

Ursäkta att vi är töntar. Dorans diplomati: "Nu kjör vi, jävlar!"

[IronKraken]

Excuse me OP? You need to speak for yourself and your fleet. These Danes give a damn good fight and play the faction because it's meant to be rough.

[thomas aagaard]

These Danes give a damn good fight and play the faction because it's meant to be rough.

Or because we are in fact danish... ;-)

[kaboki]

Or because we are in fact danish... ;-)

 

and Norwegian:p...

Edited July 25, 2015 by kaboki

[Hugh Latham]

I thought a danish was some sort of pastry.

[mattebubben]

While i like the fact that Sweden and Denmark-Norway is part of the game they had more or less no power in the Caribbean and while they fought in plenty of wars during that period they never had any "significant" forces sationed in the Americas.

 

In a European map yes they should really be in there but the Americas they never really had to much "powers".

Sweden especially.

Sweden only got Gustavia in 1784 (Traded From france in exchange for giving the french trading right in Gothenburg (Large Part/city on the swedish west coast)

 

And by that time Piracy was more or less gone in the carribean.

 

Denmark had more Colonies for a longer time and also settled some of there colonies themselves (not getting them from other nations)

 

but even so had a VERY small colonial Presence.

 

For example id say Portugual would be a bit more important to add then Sweden/Denmark-Norway Seeing as they contolled a SIGNIFICANT part of south america.

 

Even though they did not have anything in the Current map they had alot more power in the area then Sweden/Denmark-Norway had combined.

[thomas aagaard]

If history is the argument, the US should not even be in the game... they where not a country until the 1780ties and didn't have a real navy at any point during this period.
(a few large frigates don't make a navy)

[mattebubben]

Well the timeframe here is after the US independance.

 

Sweden did not get gustavia untill 1784 so after the American Revolution.

 

And There small navy was still larger then anything the Swedes and Danes ever had in the americas combined.

 

Sweden never had any army or fleet at Gustavia.

 

And at most had a small millitia (few hundred men)

and 1 or at most 2 frigates or other small warships (never had anything larger then a frigate at gustavia)

 

And any ships stationed there where only there for shorter periods of time there was never a permanent presance.

 

And it was much the same for the danish colonies.

 

If they make a European map then yes Sweden and Denmark/norway should be playable and then im ok with the colonies being there.

 

But with only the americas i think Atleast sweden should not be playable (better to have those players spread across the other factions.

 

Im a swede and if sweden is there i will likley play as sweden but i think it should be removed as long as its just the Americas since we had no power to speak of in the area.

 

Now if they really want to go "unhistorical" they could give sweden the island of Guadeloupe since sweden did infact own it for 1 year (1813-1814) even though there was never any swedish presance there and it was governed by the british during the period (they gave it to sweden after taking to from the french during the napoleonic war as payment for swedens assistance in the war)

 

But then in 1814 sweden sold it back to france for 24 Million Franc (would be ALOT more money in current days values)

So no swedes (officialy atleast) set foot on Guadeloupe while it was "swedish".

 

But they could make it a "what if" senario if sweden decided to hold onto it and forify there control.

Edited July 29, 2015 by mattebubben

[thomas aagaard]

It is a what if. Since the US can have SOLs... ;-)   And we can fight in ways that they did not historical.

[Sir Madoc]

I voted yes. Because they had weak Navy and not many ships approaching the 19th century.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Sir Madoc

[Niels Terkildsen]

The Danish naval strength was rather significant up until Great Britain stole or sank most of the ships in Copenhagen in 1807 (to prevent France from acquiring them and upsetting the balance of power on the seas). That said, the presence of the Danish navy was minimal in the West Indies, although it always had some ships stationed there during unstable periods and wars. See here for example.

[mattebubben]

Swedens navy was comparable to that of the danish with maby more focus on inshore ships then the danes.

 

But sweden had an even smaller presance in the West indies.

 

But as stated if/when europe is added then yes both sweden and denmark belong.

 

But if its just the west indies atleast sweden i feel could/should be made a Neutral =P.

 

Since they had almost no millitary presance there and ingame u only have a single national port.

 

Denmark atleast has 4 ports (even if they are close together)

 

So as a swedish player ur limited to almost only using neutral ports.

Edited August 2, 2015 by mattebubben

[Sir Madoc]

The real question is why the Dutch are not also included in this poll?

[mattebubben]

Decause the dutch actualy have multiple clusters of islands.

 

And they had forces in the area for a long time.

[Sir Madoc]

Decause the dutch actualy have multiple clusters of islands.

 

And they had forces in the area for a long time.

 

Source?

[mattebubben]

Source?

for wich one? that they had more then 1 cluster of islands or that they had millitary forces there?

 

While they did not have large armies in their west indies (Caribbean)colonies  they had a permanent minor naval presance in there (Mostly Frigates and smaller ships to protect the trade) and with the abillity to bring in more forces if needed..

 

But they had much more significant forces there then the Danish and swedish ever had together.

 

And it was not really untill the "death" of the Dutch Republic with the rise of the Batavian Republic during the french revolutionary wars and the napoleonic wars that the Dutch naval presence in the americas where weaker then that of the Young US navy.

Edited August 3, 2015 by mattebubben

[Konali89]

I like the fact that the smaller nations have a chance of succes. 

You can give all the historical facts you want, but we have to face it, history is history now, and with the US in the game, it clearly shows this is a game adaptable to the wishes of the community and i think they poll has spoken.

[thomas aagaard]

And it was not really untill the "death" of the Dutch Republic with the rise of the Batavian Republic during the french revolutionary wars and the napoleonic wars that the Dutch naval presence in the americas where weaker then that of the Young US navy.

And since the US is in the game and based on the ships it is clearly during this period we are playing.

The Dutch Golden age was back in the 17th century.

 

Or simply accept that we are not playing a specific period and then it is just as "realistic" that the US is in the game and got SOLs as the Danes are in and got em.

[maturin]

Sweden and Denmark being neutral is an incredibly silly idea. Obviously they were put in the game to fight each other.

 

I suppose they could be neutral to everyone else, if there was a good reason for it.

[Powderhorn]

I think that a lot of this will / would become moot with an in game political system.  Then alliances and wars will spring up naturally - though there is the risk of everyone ganging up on the smaller nations to "wipe them out," as long as nation capitals aren't capturable, it should be self-righting.

[mattebubben]

Sweden and Denmark being neutral is an incredibly silly idea. Obviously they were put in the game to fight each other.

 

I suppose they could be neutral to everyone else, if there was a good reason for it.

 

By them being neutral im pretty sure that means turning their ports into Neutral ports (the Neutral Faction)

 

Not making Sweden/Denmark Neutral to every1 else.