>>>Beta v1.4 Feedback<<< [Final version released]

[Lima]

10 hours ago, vonPeretz said:

New campaign and new Shared designs (1.4.0.0r14).

Shared design (Spain)

1890 october, battle

It's very discouraging. To avoid mistakes, the designs of all ships of all countries were made by AI.

Well, the thing is that in order to use ships in 1890, your designs must have been built before 1890. This means in 1886-1889. To do this, you will have to change the year of the design in the files, because in the game you cannot choose such dates.

In general, shared designs have a problem in that the AI does't use them to create ships during the campaign. What I mean. I have experience (on the previous version) using a pack of more than 400 ships and only ships that were built at the start of the campaign, 1900 (that is, before the start of the campaign, with dates of construction 1896-1899) appeared in the campaign. During the campaign (1900-1950), the AI used only ships created by itself.

[Panzergraf]

1 hour ago, Lima said:

In general, shared designs have a problem in that the AI does't use them to create ships during the campaign. What I mean. I have experience (on the previous version) using a pack of more than 400 ships and only ships that were built at the start of the campaign, 1900 (that is, before the start of the campaign, with dates of construction 1896-1899) appeared in the campaign. During the campaign (1900-1950), the AI used only ships created by itself.

I have the same experience with a 1910-1951 campaign. Despite having a lot of shared designs to choose from, for all years and for all nations, the only shared designs I actually saw them build were the 1908 dated ship designs they started with.  I even edited the save file at regular intervals to make sure the AI had enough tech to actually build the designs they had available to them, but they still didn't.

It would be nice if the AI was more biased towards building Shared Designs rather than designing its own ships.

[killjoy1941]

6 hours ago, Lima said:

Well, the thing is that in order to use ships in 1890, your designs must have been built before 1890. This means in 1886-1889. To do this, you will have to change the year of the design in the files, because in the game you cannot choose such dates.

In general, shared designs have a problem in that the AI does't use them to create ships during the campaign. What I mean. I have experience (on the previous version) using a pack of more than 400 ships and only ships that were built at the start of the campaign, 1900 (that is, before the start of the campaign, with dates of construction 1896-1899) appeared in the campaign. During the campaign (1900-1950), the AI used only ships created by itself.

 

5 hours ago, Panzergraf said:

I have the same experience with a 1910-1951 campaign. Despite having a lot of shared designs to choose from, for all years and for all nations, the only shared designs I actually saw them build were the 1908 dated ship designs they started with.  I even edited the save file at regular intervals to make sure the AI had enough tech to actually build the designs they had available to them, but they still didn't.

It would be nice if the AI was more biased towards building Shared Designs rather than designing its own ships.

A question to both of you (and everyone else using shared designs, really) since I haven't had the time to extensively use shared designs... Did you build them with the maximum available tech at the time?

Everyone seems to be reporting the same thing - that the AI won't use shared designs after the first few years of the game. That makes sense under one condition; everyone is building with max available tech. Since the player can often outrun the AI in the tech race and tech discovery is somewhat random, it seems reasonable that a design which is high-tech for its era would be impossible for the AI to build.

If everyone is trying to create good (high-tech) ships for the AI to use, I wonder what would happen if designs used components 1-2 steps back across the board? I wish I had the time to try that right now, but I don't. Maybe others do?

Edited October 6, 2023 by killjoy1941

[brothermunro]

1 minute ago, killjoy1941 said:

 

A question to both of you (and everyone else using shared designs, really) since I haven't had the time to extensively use shared designs... Did you build them with the maximum available tech at the time?

Everyone seems to be reporting the same thing - that the AI won't use shared designs after the first few years of the game. That makes sense under one condition; everyone is building with max available tech. Since the player can often outrun the AI in the tech race and tech discovery is somewhat random, it seems reasonable that a design which is high-tech for its era would be impossible for the AI to build.

If everyone is trying to create good (high-tech) ships for the AI to use, I wonder what would happen if designs used components 1-2 steps back across the board? I wish I had the time to try that right now, but I don't. Maybe others do?

I’ve been running a campaign with over 2000 shared designs in the folder, I’m 20 ish years in and seeing player designs pop up every now and then but I’d say 90% of the designs have been AI generated (though they do seem *better* I don’t know if the AI can use shared designs as a seed or not but it feels like that’s what is happening). I don’t know how the AI selects shared designs on ‘always’ or what is eligible for the AI when it goes to build a ship but it does seem to reject player designs a lot even when it should have all the requisite techs.

[killjoy1941]

25 minutes ago, brothermunro said:

I’ve been running a campaign with over 2000 shared designs in the folder, I’m 20 ish years in and seeing player designs pop up every now and then but I’d say 90% of the designs have been AI generated (though they do seem *better* I don’t know if the AI can use shared designs as a seed or not but it feels like that’s what is happening). I don’t know how the AI selects shared designs on ‘always’ or what is eligible for the AI when it goes to build a ship but it does seem to reject player designs a lot even when it should have all the requisite techs.

Wow. There's no way you don't have the most extensive dataset available. I'd keep that campaign save around after 1.4 drops in case Nick wants to do a pass on the shared design feature.

[brothermunro]

9 minutes ago, killjoy1941 said:

Wow. There's no way you don't have the most extensive dataset available. I'd keep that campaign save around after 1.4 drops in case Nick wants to do a pass on the shared design feature.

You’re welcome to try them if you want, as is anyone else of course!

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZaGXWZimgbidzxyozvGMu7pmRkHReoBhC7

[killjoy1941]

27 minutes ago, brothermunro said:

You’re welcome to try them if you want, as is anyone else of course!

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZaGXWZimgbidzxyozvGMu7pmRkHReoBhC7

That's very kind of you. 

I imagine a lot of those are going to need a modification pass after 1.4, but an extensive community resource like that is probably going to be a big deal post-dev.

[brothermunro]

34 minutes ago, killjoy1941 said:

That's very kind of you. 

I imagine a lot of those are going to need a modification pass after 1.4, but an extensive community resource like that is probably going to be a big deal post-dev.

I’ll be trying to build a new library for 1.4 as all of those designs will need deleted sadly. 

[Lima]

1 hour ago, killjoy1941 said:

 

A question to both of you (and everyone else using shared designs, really) since I haven't had the time to extensively use shared designs... Did you build them with the maximum available tech at the time?

Everyone seems to be reporting the same thing - that the AI won't use shared designs after the first few years of the game. That makes sense under one condition; everyone is building with max available tech. Since the player can often outrun the AI in the tech race and tech discovery is somewhat random, it seems reasonable that a design which is high-tech for its era would be impossible for the AI to build.

If everyone is trying to create good (high-tech) ships for the AI to use, I wonder what would happen if designs used components 1-2 steps back across the board? I wish I had the time to try that right now, but I don't. Maybe others do?

I made my designs adjusted for how AI explores technologies. However, it wasn't just my designs that were in the pack. In short, each of my designs had three options: trash tech design, medium tech design and top tech design. In the 1930s and 1940s, I very much lowered the bar of technology, for example, I did not use radar.

1 hour ago, brothermunro said:

I’ve been running a campaign with over 2000 shared designs in the folder, I’m 20 ish years in and seeing player designs pop up every now and then but I’d say 90% of the designs have been AI generated (though they do seem *better* I don’t know if the AI can use shared designs as a seed or not but it feels like that’s what is happening). I don’t know how the AI selects shared designs on ‘always’ or what is eligible for the AI when it goes to build a ship but it does seem to reject player designs a lot even when it should have all the requisite techs.

Wow this is the first time I've heard that SD actually work during a campaign. The probability is not too good, but it gives hope, you know.

[Grizli60rus]

2 hours ago, brothermunro said:

I’ve been running a campaign with over 2000 shared designs in the folder, I’m 20 ish years in and seeing player designs pop up every now and then but I’d say 90% of the designs have been AI generated (though they do seem *better* I don’t know if the AI can use shared designs as a seed or not but it feels like that’s what is happening). I don’t know how the AI selects shared designs on ‘always’ or what is eligible for the AI when it goes to build a ship but it does seem to reject player designs a lot even when it should have all the requisite techs.

Everything is so. I'm running a campaign in UAD on YouTube, we have our own collection of ships, 700 projects. For the entire campaign at the moment (1890-1923), the game has not accepted a single project. I would like something to be done about it. Let the both have order ships, but even an old player's project is much more dangerous than what the bot does.

Link to our collection: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10-SbtcG3s4YTN9gSxgHsMNalU2LPaMNre0kXZeIWaXI/edit#gid=0  there's a table sorted by year with a download link.

Before that, there was another campaign for another country, where the bot took player projects only a few times, out of almost 1000 options as well.

[Nick Thomadis]

[Update 16]
- Fine tunings in ship collider system (affects positively auto-design and fire arc restrictions).
- Balanced out muzzle velocity and fire rate according to gun length caliber. Ballistics and penetrations got auto-adjusted accordingly based on the new data, allowing for even more historical behavior of guns depending on their technology. Previously the gun velocity could become too high, even on early guns.
- Other minor fixes.

Note: Only some new naval academy missions remain to finalize the patch, next week.

Please Restart Steam to get this update fast.

Sha

[Nick Thomadis]

Regarding "Shared Designs"

They are used if they are not invalid.. Due to the various patches, surely many of them got affected without player notice and so they are not used.

Additionally, the AI will refit those designs so they can never be identical to the whole extend of a campaign.

[Lima]

10 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Regarding "Shared Designs"

They are used if they are not invalid.. Due to the various patches, surely many of them got affected without player notice and so they are not used.

Additionally, the AI will refit those designs so they can never be identical to the whole extend of a campaign.

I can't speak for everyone, but this is absolutely not the situation that happened in my case, since I used ships created on the stable version of the game.

I understand that refits can happen, but it's easy to check. My ships have special names, such as "CHINA_BB_1896_C" and and by these names they can be recognized even after refit. For quite a long time I have met ships that were built in 1896-1899 and subsequently refitted.

[Lima]

@Nick Thomadis

Ships lose all fuel when crossing the map border 2

This is a very serious problem. I understand that in order to fly from one end of the map to the other, ships have to use warp engines and fight their way through demons. But for God's sake and all that's holy, fix it.

 

[Nick Thomadis]

3 minutes ago, Lima said:

@Nick Thomadis

Ships lose all fuel when crossing the map border 2

This is a very serious problem. I understand that in order to fly from one end of the map to the other, ships have to use warp engines and fight their way through demons. But for God's sake and all that's holy, fix it.

 

It is early tech, your ships have low range (theoretically you need to spend less than your half range to have a ship not on "Low Fuel" so  it can return back safely. Low fuel does not mean that the ship has NO fuel at all. Low fuel state is handled by the game as an auto-management of ships so that they do not remain out of fuel in the middle of the ocean. 

Travelling big distances and have enough fuel to fight a big battle without refueling, should be difficult in the 1890s

[Lima]

2 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

It is early tech, your ships have low range (theoretically you need to spend less than your half range to have a ship not on "Low Fuel" so  it can return back safely. Low fuel does not mean that the ship has NO fuel at all. Low fuel state is handled by the game as an auto-management of ships so that they do not remain out of fuel in the middle of the ocean. 

Travelling big distances and have enough fuel to fight a big battle without refueling, should be difficult in the 1890s

No. It's just that ships always lose fuel when crossing the edge of the map. It doesn't depend on technology. I've played a lot of campaigns in the Pacific. It's always like that.

 

[itolan1752]

11 minutes ago, Lima said:

No. It's just that ships always lose fuel when crossing the edge of the map. It doesn't depend on technology. I've played a lot of campaigns in the Pacific. It's always like that.

 

Yes, even in late game, player's ship has 20000 km range and fuel was over 90%

Once through the edge of the map to the other side, the fuel will reduce to "Low".

[Danz_Von_Luck]

The British light cruiser hulls cant be used to make anything close to accurate British cruisers. I tried to make a town class but the turrets just have terrible firing arcs for seemingly no reason (the back one is worst of all)

[Grizli60rus]

39 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Travelling big distances and have enough fuel to fight a big battle without refueling, should be difficult in the 1890s

Lima writes everything correctly, this is already a long-standing bug with the loss of fuel when crossing the border of the map. Check it out for yourself, please.

[Lima]

@Nick Thomadis
Range 76530km = low fuel

 

 

[Nick Thomadis]

56 minutes ago, Lima said:

No. It's just that ships always lose fuel when crossing the edge of the map. It doesn't depend on technology. I've played a lot of campaigns in the Pacific. It's always like that.

 

We will fix then, thanks!

[Nick Thomadis]

[Update 17]
- Fixed old bug causing fuel depletion when passing via the Pacific zone.
- Fixed critical bug of Russian 2-inch guns Mark II not scaling properly.
- Added extra towers to Italian cruiser "Modern Heavy Cruiser IV".

Please Restart Steam to get this update fast.

[_Marlow]

It feels like the fire arc's have gotten narrower across the board in one of the recent updates over the past couple days. I've just been playing around with some quick battle builds, but when I logged on yesterday I noticed that mounts that provided a decent fire arc before now have more restrictive arcs. It could be that I'm misremembering, but the best example I can find to illustrate is this 8.9inch gun on a later British cruiser. I am pretty sure that this had a better fire arc a few days ago. Anyone else finding this?

(BTW, I'm loving the British hulls that have been added since I last picked up the game!)

[The PC Collector]

@Nick Thomadis Something I was wondering. Just like there is an "unlock" button which allows you to use any hull from any country in custom battles, would be too much to ask for an "unlock obsolete" which would likewise allow you to use any hull regardless of end date?

Like, if I pick 1920 for example, we could use any hull which has an start date of 1920 or earlier, regardless of end date?

[brothermunro]

6 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Regarding "Shared Designs"

They are used if they are not invalid.. Due to the various patches, surely many of them got affected without player notice and so they are not used.

Additionally, the AI will refit those designs so they can never be identical to the whole extend of a campaign.

That makes sense. May I ask; will the AI only reject designs that are no longer valid as shown in the shared designs viewer (red bits, other errors) or does it automatically reject any shared design not made on the latest version? If the latter is that the exact version or a more permissive setting (for instance is a design made in 1.3.9.8 valid on 1.3.9.9)