Ironclads

[Cdodders]

I would love to build ships from the mid to late Ironclad era, central battery, turreted and open barbette designs

[Marshall99]

I agree! I would love to see more ironclads. This is my post about them:

 

[Rak1445]

There's a LOT of really interesting designs and concepts from that era. It's criminally underrepresented, and I'd love to see the game expand further into the past

Look at this amazing hull for example:

[Marshall99]

Ironclads could bring huge potential to this game. I would love to see them in this game and of course build them. This can be a great selling point too. Because you can only play in a few games with ironclad. And imagine that you can build your own ironclads in this game. This could make this game even better.

[Rak1445]

There's more to offer, like early torpedoes, barbette and turret ships, muzzle loaders, development of armor plating, invention of torpedo boats and light warfare... It all deserves to be represented - I mean, come on, these things basically invented Steampunk - how come we're not seeing more of them?

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Rak1445

[Marshall99]

I absolutely agree with you. Ironclads could bring so much fun into this game. I just can't understand some people here, who do not want them. They are cool, they changed the naval warfare, they are the pioneers of the pre- and dreadnoughts. They should get more attention. And I hope they will be implemented into this game (dlc or not). 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Marshall99

[DougToss]

1 hour ago, Marshall99 said:

I just can't understand some people here, who do not want them. They are cool

At the risk of repeating myself, there is more to designing a game, or managing any project really, than what is cool. 

Ironclads are distinct enough from Dreadnoughts as to warrant their own treatment, in the same way that ironclads are distinct enough from sailing ships of the line as to warrant their own treatment. A game should not aspire to be all things to all people, but to do what it sets out to do as well as possible. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by DougToss

[Marshall99]

@Cptbarney @Aceituna @Rak1445

Well I think we will have some ironclads lads! I went back to April 1 update and I read some very good and promising comments.

So I think there is a very high chance that we will get some ironclads/late ironclads (maybe: USS Maine, HMS Victoria etc...) 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Marshall99

[Cptbarney]

45 minutes ago, Marshall99 said:

@Cptbarney @Aceituna @Rak1445

Well I think we will have some ironclads lads! I went back to April 1 update and I read some very good and promising comments.

So I think there is a very high chance that we will get some ironclads/late ironclads (maybe: USS Maine, HMS Victoria etc...) 

Noice, hope we get more early ironclad/Dreadnoughts etc, since it would be pretty cool to see the evolution of the ships as your empire and navy grows.

[Marshall99]

1 hour ago, Cptbarney said:

Noice, hope we get more early ironclad/Dreadnoughts etc, since it would be pretty cool to see the evolution of the ships as your empire and navy grows.

Exactly. This game is a very good opportunity for ironclads. The evolution of guns, hulls, engines. And I am pretty sure in that giving every nation generic ironclad hulls shoud solve the problem of the correct starting year. If every nation gets generic hull then we can start in 1870 too. And we can have a basic (starter) fleet that contains obsolate monitors/casamate ironclads. And also having masts on ironclad shouldn't be a big problem because in a battle we should not use them anyway. But in the map they can use it to travel further. So it can boost the range.

[Rak1445]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:36 PM, DougToss said:

At the risk of repeating myself, there is more to designing a game, or managing any project really, than what is cool. 

Ironclads are distinct enough from Dreadnoughts as to warrant their own treatment, in the same way that ironclads are distinct enough from sailing ships of the line as to warrant their own treatment. A game should not aspire to be all things to all people, but to do what it sets out to do as well as possible. 

While I agree that quality of the execution should not be compromised - I'd rather have a great dreadnought game than a mediocre ironclad one - I would argue that the possibility of expanding the scope of the game, potentially *after launch* or even as a paid extra offers no disadvantages to the game. On the contrary, it might be beneficial financially as it could attract a wider audience and, if released as an expansion pack of sorts, would generate *additional* purchases, while still utilizing the default game mechanics (the developers would NOT be required to redo everything from scratch as a separate game).

Adding ironclads does not necessarily mean reinventing the wheel. IMHO they fit quite nicely into the existing framework - the Monitor and Merrimac are the proof of this. For example, muzzle-loading cannons don't really need to use entirely new code - in effect, simply extending the reload timer would be enough to differentiate them from breech-loaders, along with a respective research tree in the campaign. The biggest 'bottleneck' would be the amount of new hulls and ship parts for the old ships that would need to be modeled from scratch, but as the developers already stated, "some" will be available by default to cover the early campaign period. The rest is possible to achieve through "simple" tweaking of existing mechanics' values. Of course, nothing is ever "easy", but I'd definitely say it's doable.

Of course, if we get mod support in the end and custom ship parts along with it, it's quite likely we'll see some user generated ironclads in time.

On a similar note, I wish we'd get gunboats and fleet auxiliaries in the campaign too...
Screenshot is from the game 'Ironclads II: Caroline Islands War'

[Cptbarney]

35 minutes ago, Marshall99 said:

Exactly. This game is a very good opportunity for ironclads. The evolution of guns, hulls, engines. And I am pretty sure in that giving every nation generic ironclad hulls shoud solve the problem of the correct starting year. If every nation gets generic hull then we can start in 1870 too. And we can have a basic (starter) fleet that contains obsolate monitors/casamate ironclads. And also having masts on ironclad shouldn't be a big problem because in a battle we should not use them anyway. But in the map they can use it to travel further. So it can boost the range.

Yeah, and also we can add them in at any time as well, if the game becomes more moddable (i would suggest the devs do so to reduce work load lol), then we can add a ton of new hulls, superstructures, barbettes turret designs, gun barrels etc. Which will further personalise peoples games in-general.

Too be honest if you use HMS thunderer and devastation you can simply make a few more generic versions of those and stick them across each of the nations (unless each nation had their own types around that era), then you would have a nice transition from ironclads to steelclads to dreadnoughts.

[Marshall99]

Caio Duilio class ironclads would be good starter ships for Italy. 450mm muzzle-loading guns can be devastating (at close range), and the accuracy could be a good balancing factor.

[Rak1445]

32 minutes ago, Marshall99 said:

Caio Duilio class ironclads would be good starter ships for Italy. 450mm muzzle-loading guns can be devastating (at close range), and the accuracy could be a good balancing factor.

Adorably ugly. Want! ❤️

Edited June 11, 2020 by Rak1445

[IronKaputt]

On 6/11/2020 at 3:27 PM, Cptbarney said:

Yeah, and also we can add them in at any time as well, if the game becomes more moddable (i would suggest the devs do so to reduce work load lol), then we can add a ton of new hulls, superstructures, barbettes turret designs, gun barrels etc. Which will further personalise peoples games in-general.

I pray day and night it won't be hardcoded to hell, so I can put my crooked hands on all that juicy stuff (in case we won't be blessed with proper in-game designers for looks and specs).

Some other things, like camo and shell dye effects might be more challenging.

[VarangianGarde]

@Nick Thomadis I heartily endorse an 1871 start to the upcoming campaign. Given the late hour and the dearth of information on the exact start year, it doesn't have to be right away. (I imagine something like how Crusader Kings II expanded the scope of its campaign over its development life) l I think ironclads are a worthy precursor to the Dreadnought era.