Ally Assistance (Healing, Towing, Dragging)

[DarkPhoenixRising]

So I was sat there the other day in a PvP battle and was in need of repair but had no repairs, however my friend who I was playing with on Team Speak had repairs left. This was in the final stages of the battle.

 

So I was thinking how useful it would be for ships to pull up next to an ally hook up (like current boarding) and help with repairs using your supplies. This I think would add a new element of team work to the game further encouraging team work, I think it would also add a new and interesting dynamic to the game.

 

The new dynamics for example could be as follows:

 

• No boarding/Healing in storms
• If you are boarding to help an ally you are stationary and there for more vulnerable, on the other hand you could be making a sacrifice play to save a larger more appropriate vessel for the battle there in saving the game for your team.
• It would also give the ability to full utilize the resources of ships, this would be more important if the game does go into open world.
• It would also give a new lease of life to smaller ships as a support ship option.

Anyway please feel free to add to the pro's and con's. And hope that this suggestion is something people like the sounds of.

 

[Grim DeGrim]

I've read of, after battles, where joint crews would endeavor to save a ship. But it was intensive and effectively disabled both ships 100% from all other activities.

Not sure if that helps or hinders your post. I have some concerns it could be unbalanced. Eg, a cutter providing full reps to a victory.

If the disabled time were an extended period of vulnerability, and reps scaled based on the ship size providing it, then it could be a possible implementation.

[Lord Hood]

I think as Grim mentioned it could perhaps be employed after a battle but I wouldn't be in favour of it happening during the course of the battle. They tried it with the launches in PotBS and I really don't think that it would fit during the engagement. The best way of repairs and allies in the midst of battle is your ally interposing their ship between yours and the enemy to give you some reprieve and allow your repairs to be as effective as they should be. You shall be hit by the odd shot that passes through your ally's ship but for the most part your repairs shall be substantial. Interposing one ship to allow another a breather and to cut away rigging et cetera did occur within a battle frequently, whereas pulling alongside one another to share repairs did not.

[George Rodney]

I agree 100% with my fellow comrade in arms there, everything beyond that wouldn't be historicaly correct and that is what Game Labs aims at.

[Grim DeGrim]

I am less inclined on the idea to be honest. Imagine in the heart of battle trying to transfer sails, mast braces, planking, etc to another ship.

Seems unlikely.

My bigger concern, realism aside, is that it becomes a type of meta. Little fish (cutters) following the big fish (first rates) to provide an endless supply of repairs.

Perhaps there are ways to mitigate this? I'm not against brainstorming the idea... After battle assistance could be an interesting reputation builder.

Of course, it could have costs associated with it too. Financial. Your own stores being depleted for duration of the journey. Possibly crew injured. Even damage to your own ship in the process...

[Lord Hood]

If after a battle your ship does not become fully repaired and you have to get to a port or so on prior to your next fight then I think that we can entertain the idea once the initial battle is over. Then perhaps when out of the combat engagement (back on the open sea as it were with everything decided) you can get together and make minor repairs and set up a jury rig but I think that is the very furthest this idea should go. I am one for realism so as I posted previously I think that this should play no role in the battle but merely as a post battle precaution.

[Grim DeGrim]

Reminds me of the battle between the USS. Hornet and HMS Peacock:

"In this position the Hornet kept up such a destructive fire, that, at 5 h. 50m., having her commander killed, six feet water in her hold, and her hull and masts cut to pieces, the Peacock hoisted in her fore-rigging an ensign with the union downwards, as a signal of distress. Shortly afterwards her mainmast went by the board. Both vessels were immediately anchored, and every exertion was used to save the Peacock; but the efforts of both crews were unavailing, and in a few minutes she sank in five fathoms water, carrying with her thirteen men, only four of whom were rescued."

Even after capture, both crewed endeavoured to jointly save the ship.

[nornica]

I like the idea. Small supporting ships. Making usefull appearance on a battlefield.

Ofcourse repairs could be limited to 2-3 times.

No more screaming "omg join light pvp you nabz!" Now it will be "please could some brig join pvp?"

It will be like support or healer in other games. Not sure how it will work out in Open World, but in arena modes? why not.
Make all ships usefull
SoL
Frigates

Stern camping yachts or lynxx
Brig and Cutter as support healer
Snow as heavy support healer

About realism..
Yeah.. its absolutly realistic normal to rebuild with repair kit 3 masts in a storm battle.. xD
Soo i wouldn't look at this so strictly.

[Grim DeGrim]

I hear you the way it is simulated might not be representative, but crews DID have the ability to address damage to some extent while in battle. In our case, that limited ability is represented with 3 "repair kits".

[Crankey]

I have no objection to a limited share of resources or crew/specialists, such as carpenters and officers etc After hostilities. Mini after battle meta game, as above emergency repairs, Fothering holes below the waterline, Jury rigged mast sections etc.

 

For me the only realistic option for a sinking ship before hostilities cease is to lower your flag and turn all resources to saving her. Even an extremely damaged ship on the point of sinking with its crew manning the guns, should be able to be kept afloat if all of its crew leave their battle stations and man the pumps, throw ballast/guns over the side etc.

 

During battle I am in favour of ships drifting slowly downwind having lowered their ensign and going into emergency repair mode, than all of the sinking that currently occurs. Very few ships would sink during a battle unless it took place in a storm.

 

However our battles are speeded up for practical reasons and damage and/or defence is modified to allow our games to finish within 60 minutes.

[DarkPhoenixRising]

I have no objection to a limited share of resources or crew/specialists, such as carpenters and officers etc After hostilities. Mini after battle meta game, as above emergency repairs, Fothering holes below the waterline, Jury rigged mast sections etc.

 

For me the only realistic option for a sinking ship before hostilities cease is to lower your flag and turn all resources to saving her. Even an extremely damaged ship on the point of sinking with its crew manning the guns, should be able to be kept afloat if all of its crew leave their battle stations and man the pumps, throw ballast/guns over the side etc.

 

During battle I am in favour of ships drifting slowly downwind having lowered their ensign and going into emergency repair mode, than all of the sinking that currently occurs. Very few ships would sink during a battle unless it took place in a storm.

 

However our battles are speeded up for practical reasons and damage and/or defence is modified to allow our games to finish within 60 minutes.

You got the idea i was poking at bang on the head there with the emergency repair side of things, perhaps a compromise to the situation of ships sailing up wind to conduct emergency repairs would be to have a heavier of battle with that feature and a normal version with out it run as a test to see what one is played more frequently. That would then give us the data to say what people prefer.

[Lord Hood]

I think that in combat help could come in the form of towing out of the line by a smaller ship. That way if you become a mastless wreck then you can still be a combat unit as would have happened in the age. As for the game post battle I think that Crankey has put it well.

[Krasimir]

Helping other ship in repairs should be possible only on open seas and should require a lot of time! Like helping fix that broken masts from that nasty storm that have just passed.

[CommodoreWesley]

I agree that shared repairs could be performed after a battle, but not during it. Battles are chaotic enough just for one crew, then mixing up crews during a battle for repairs would be a nightmare.

[Similon]

How do people feel about this?

If an ally of yours is severely damaged, would you like to be able to help them? Whether that entailed sending crew over to help with repairs, towing a de-masted ship, acting as a float (I don't see that one working), or dragging them out of a sinking wreck so they don't need to recruit new officers. Or any other, more plausible scenario.

 

I know It's something I'd like to be able to do, for enemies as well as allies, but not everybody is as altruistic as me

 

[Prater]

You should put this in the suggestions forum.  This should be a feature.

[Thomas Blackwell]

I have wanted this feature for a long time.

 

You should be able to (during testing) bring both ships to a full stop and use a repair kit on the ally. It takes longer than normal, and both ships must remain stationary until it has finished. 

[Joao18]

I think the implementation of this feature would be very useful, it would be nice to help our allies in difficulties. I think teamwork wins battles and this would improve the teamwork!    +1

[Crankey]

I think this subject is already discussed.

 

The general consensus was that after battle assistance could be rendered but not during. Possibly the ability to 'lower boats' could be done to save survivors who don't take any part in the rest of the battle unless just spectating.

 

Once battle is over surviving ships sharing stores between them on the high seas could be done to assist a damaged ship get into port.

 

Of course this all depends on whether or not we have any reason to save crew, or if stores are consumed, damage retained in the open world game..

Edited February 20, 2015 by Crankey

[Joao18]

I think this subject is already discussed.

 

The general consensus was that after battle assistance could be rendered but not during. Possibly the ability to 'lower boats' could be done to save survivors who don't take any part in the rest of the battle unless just spectating.

 

Once battle is over surviving ships sharing stores between them on the high seas could be done to assist a damaged ship get into port.

 

Of course this all depends on whether or not we have any reason to save crew, or if stores are consumed, damage retained in the open world game..

 

Exactly this would be great in the Open World, it would add a lot more realism and immersion in the game.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Joao18

[Nathan Poldark]

Sometimes, in lulls in the fighting - typically when forces are split - I find myself wanting do so something to assist allied ships in distress.  Provided that I first come alongside the stricken vessel and slow to a near stop, it seems to me that some reasonable possibilities might include:

 

* Repair kit donation - if my (donor) ship is of the same or higher class than the recipient ship, I feel I should be able to donate materials for repair.  That is, if I have unused repairs I should be able to gift one or more of them to the recipient, so they can perhaps fix that broken mast or plug some leaks that are slowly sinking them.

* Crew donation - similarly, if a ship's crew has been severely depleted by boarding action or gunfire, I should be able to donate them as many of my crew as I wish, down to a bare minimum I need to do anything useful (say, 15%?).

* Crew rescue - if the vessel is sinking or has just sunk (with rigging still above surface for sailors to cling to), I should be able to rescue a small percentage of the crew to supplement my own.  Yes, I realise most sailors can't swim, but if I get there in time I should nonetheless be able to save *some* who are still clinging to debris.

* Towing - okay, so this one would not be as simple as the others to implement, but the situation can arise that a tactically important SoL is stranded with rigging damage - and in the Open World outside of combat, storm damage and rocks/reefs/beaching could leave some of your NPC trading flotilla in need of assistance.

 

If, in the Open World, we will be able to hire NPC ships to add to our fleet,then all of the above would also play an important part in PC fleet survival - which is obviously something we will have a keen interest in, with our own money on the line!

 

[SirWili]

Did any of those happen in real battles?

Maybe crew rescue?

All other actions were done after the battle, not in the middle of manoveuring and gunfire.

[Grim DeGrim]

Towing did. I think it was battle of the Nile... Before the start of that battle, one of Nelson's captains SAS towing a captured merchant vessel. Upon getting the word that the French fleet had been found, they left the merchant and made best speed to Nelson.

(I believe it was during the time when they were consolidating a fleet to counter Napoleon's)

Ps- not aware of towing in battle, more likely after battle

Edited February 28, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Crankey]

Treasonous talk ! I shall have you all court martialled and flogged around the fleet !!

 

You sir... YES you sir, will be obliged to follow the orders of your superior officer and engage the enemy more closely, bring them under your guns and hammer them into submission or your ship becomes so damaged it can no longer maintain gunnery or be unable to manouvre and give chase.

 

At this point you may look to your ship and crews safety but not a moment before. You may signal your ship is in distress, but battle able ships will not be diverted while in contact with the enemy themselves.

 

Pon my soul what a crew of swabs ! 

[Guthwait]

I don't think this could work during combat as it would put both ships at risk.  How many would risk stopping a functional ship while the battle is raging to fix another?  And no, there should not be any kind of invulnerability while the repairs would be carried out.  However, after battle, being able to pull up alongside to aid in repair or rigging up a tow would add to the realism.