Jack Feathersword Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think this would be a great end game 4th rate /frigate. It had a long service time and put out a huge broadside. I Can't find much in the ways of plans or images. What do you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernWolves Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The Java was a very nice frigate, wouldn't mind seeing her one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you want a counter to Constitution, HMS Leander or Newcastle would be better, at least they saw combat. I'd be a bit wary of unseating Constitution as the "ultimate frigate" though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Chis Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you want a counter to Constitution, HMS Leander or Newcastle would be better, at least they saw combat. I'd be a bit wary of unseating Constitution as the "ultimate frigate" though. There is always a bigger fish out there though isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Sure. I mean, we could build USS Java, she's a '44' with 32lb guns on the maindeck, there's 1820s French frigates with 30lb cannon on both decks and any number of 60 or so gun frigates that were built as counters to the United States class, but none of them really saw combat or have much historical significance. I'd rather the top ship in class be something that did see combat and did play an important role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernWolves Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yeah, we've (Decatur) been discussing all the possible American ships we might want one day and we all agree the ones who actually saw action would be much preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I really want to see the Leander and Newcastle. Though, the Brits could just use the Constitution model for that in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Feathersword Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 The fact that some of the class lasted for almost 100 years in some way or shape is amazing. Plus if you only could the ships that actually saw action it limits a lot of the options down. It fits in the time period, it was British so if different nations have end game ships it would suit well. I guess the real questions are weather or not plans exist for it somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Armstrong Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The fact that some of the class lasted for almost 100 years in some way or shape is amazing. Plus if you only could the ships that actually saw action it limits a lot of the options 217 years and counting but it's not so much what actually saw action as to when it was built. Around the time of the wars end in 1815 and just after through 1820, there were huge changes and restructuring to the world's navies and warships from lessons learned in combat and technological advances, which rendered some perfectly capable warships of just a few years prior obsolescent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 are you talking about the class or the java itself and was the java bigger than constitution? and didnt they fight each other? thats why they made the uss java Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 are you talking about the class or the java itself and was the java bigger than constitution? and didnt they fight each other? thats why they made the uss java The HMS Java that fought Constitution was a captured french Hebe-class frigate. I knew the US had built a ship called Java in commemoration of the battle, but until now I didn't realize the British also built another Java, unusual to reuse the name of a beaten ship... Btw, here's one of the Java class frigates, Winchester, was still in service in 1921 as a training ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bart Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 at the post id says approved 1813... dont think Naval action goes to that time.. ive heard around year 1500-1700+ because if we go up to 18th we have steam ships. and thats not gonna happend they said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 18th century is 1700s. Game is 17th-19th Centuries. 1820 is the hard date for the end. Most named ships in the alpha are post 1790s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodoreWesley Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I would love to see the HMS Java, honestly she was the closest match with the USS Constitution in a one to one engagement. In French service she was the Renommée so you might have better luck finding her plans from French sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I would love to see the HMS Java, honestly she was the closest match with the USS Constitution in a one to one engagement. In French service she was the Renommée so you might have better luck finding her plans from French sources. Just to clear up any confusion, this is not the same HMS Java that fought the Constitution. The HMS Java that fought the Constitution was a smaller ship, a captured french Hebe/Pallas class frigate originally called Renomee of 1073 tons bm and armed with 28x18lb cannon on the maindeck plus 18x32lb carronades and 2x9lb cannon on the weather deck. The HMS Java in this thread was a latter ship built to match the Constitution and her sisterships, so she is 1457 tons bm and carries 30x24lb cannon on the maindeck plus 28x42lb carronades and 2x24lb cannon on the weather deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Feathersword Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 As stated above. This is the Java Class of ships. 4 total were built and they were launched towards the end dates of this game (1815-1820). These were the last class of frigate/4th rate the British ever built in the age of sail and as such might make a good high end ship class for the British line of ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryga Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Java as in the Indonesian island? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Armstrong Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Java_(1811) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryga Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Oh ffs why do the britts have to steal everything, first New Amsterdam then Java, not to forget New Holland and New Zeeland, Oh well.. But when dit the netherlands get java back because it was in dutch hands befroe the second world war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 the problem is 4th rate Frigate =/= 4th rate ship of the line simply because of crew numbers in case of boarding. simply having the same gun count wont cut it. so is the Java now sugest to be the peak of the Frigate line or serve as 4th rate Ship of the Line to fill the current Gape or should the Portland/Ise/Leopard class take that place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 After the mid-18th century 4th rates weren't considered powerful enough to be Ships of the Line, and there is some overlap between the larger frigates and the small 2 deckers, 50 gun 4th rates with 24lb maindeck and 40 gun 5th rates with 18lb maindeck. NA isn't as far as I know doing "tiers" or "lines" but only cost to obtain, so here is how I'd rank the ships in terms of price. 1st rate SOLs 2nd rate SOLs 3rd rate SOLs -- 4th rate frigates (24 pdr) 4th rate ships -- 5th rate frigates (18 pdr) 5th rate ships -- 5th rate frigates (12 pdr) -- 6th rate frigates (9 pdr) -- 6th rate ships -- unrated vessels Where you have 2 types around the same price its a choice between firepower and speed. Obviously this is just a general price range, not every ship will fit perfectly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Blackwell Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 "End Game" may be the wrong description for her, as a players skill means as much as the ship he commands. BUT the Java is a beautiful class, and deserves a place in NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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