Battle Rating [BR] for doing battle

[Thonys]

If you sailing a ingermanland and 3 indiamans in a fleet, and being tagged in open water by a Bellona

the BR is not permitting any help for the fleet captain, in this case, the BR is in favor of the Bellona who can slaughter the 4 ships easily

should the BR control the battle choice? 

 

[Teutonic]

I've said it before - The Attacker shouldn't be able to gain reinforcement bonus for being lower BR.

but as for Bellona vs this fleet - The fleet could kill the bellona even if it is unlikely.

[Slim McSauce]

11 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I've said it before - The Attacker shouldn't be able to gain reinforcement bonus for being lower BR.

but as for Bellona vs this fleet - The fleet could kill the bellona even if it is unlikely.

This, obviously, duh. Come on, why isn't this the case now? Holy cow.
By all means tweak the BR.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Thonys]

13 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

This, obviously, duh. Come on, why isn't this the case now? Holy cow.
By all means tweak the BR.

i would go further and say remove it entirely 

and go back to the old system of 3 minutes join for both sides

there were no complaints with the 3 minutes system....

 

now it will cost captains in the long run if we keep it this way (i can smell it)

 

[Beeekonda]

41 minutes ago, Thonys said:

If you sailing a ingermanland and 3 indiamans in a fleet, and being tagged in open water by a Bellona

the BR is not permitting any help for the fleet captain, in this case, the BR is in favor of the Bellona who can slaughter the 4 ships easily

should the BR control the battle choice? 

 

What if you tag pickle + 3 Indiamans  on  your Brig, why Pickle has to be able to get reinforcement? Indiamans have guns, more crew, Marines etc

[Nasty Wombat]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

there were no complaints with the 3 minutes system....

excuse me?! the 3 minute system is utter garbage the 20 minute join timer is one of the best if not the best change in the last 2 years 

[Thonys]

2 minutes ago, Nasty Wombat said:

excuse me?! the 3 minute system is utter garbage the 20 minute join timer is one of the best if not the best change in the last 2 years 

there is a difference in time,  and there is the BR.

you will soon find out.

[Nasty Wombat]

i like the BR, while it needs tweaking for some ships it does promote/enforces fairer fights

[van Veen]

25 minutes ago, Thonys said:

there were no complaints with the 3 minutes system....

Oh, there have been MANY complaints about ganking. The system was introduced to reduce ganking and I do not see your example as excessive ganking. 

[jodgi]

3 hours ago, van Veen said:

The system was introduced to reduce ganking

No, that was not the intention.

The goal was to enable ganks but also keeping the door open to counter-ganks; To make more and bigger fights happen and to allow friends to help each other. People have disregarded the OW part of OW and have simply reacted emotionally negative to coming up on fights (closed swords) that happened hours and hours ago in the accelerated OW time/space. We've had 20 min timers before and back then it lead to extreme timidity as few people wanted to rush into a gank-trap.

@Thonys, there's a lot of talk about the exciting concept of risk versus reward with hauling stuff in personal indiaman fleets, I don't know where you stand on that particular issue, but why should indiafleets receive arena matchmaking-like help when caught with their pants down? You want to bring all the guns of your fleet into the instance but be excused from the BR tab?

I don't understand some of you sandbox guys... Do you want sandbox OW or ineffective matchmaking with OW as the lobby?

[Thonys]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

No, that was not the intention.

The goal was to enable ganks but also keeping the door open to counter-ganks; To make more and bigger fights happen and to allow friends to help each other. People have disregarded the OW part of OW and have simply reacted emotionally negative to coming up on fights (closed swords) that happened hours and hours ago in the accelerated OW time/space. We've had 20 min timers before and back then it lead to extreme timidity as few people wanted to rush into a gank-trap.

@Thonys, there's a lot of talk about the exciting concept of risk versus reward with hauling stuff in personal indiaman fleets, I don't know where you stand on that particular issue, but why should indiafleets receive arena matchmaking-like help when caught with their pants down? You want to bring all the guns of your fleet into the instance but be excused from the BR tab?

I don't understand some of you sandbox guys... Do you want sandbox OW or ineffective matchmaking with OW as the lobby?

well, first of all, i don't like restrictions or limitations. (hate them)

second, mostly these kind of limitations are going to be big traps (what people don't see)

third, the battle is open for 20 minutes soo ask yourself, why is that? ..to counter with a big ocean !..and that is the answer...

its an escalation on already damaged ships...

fourth .most people do not even carry guns on traders (i see that often, of cause it's their own risk, but also a miscalculation and misinterpretation on BR) 

[BR should in my eyes be calculated on mass /guns/crew/gun loadout power/hold / and upgrades]

fifth . i see battles in OW as separate incidents on the ow were everybody in a certain time frame should have the chance to enter the battle. 

in this mechanic, mostly it is closed (2 min timer) or you have a denial of a fight because of the BR. (why should i even bother to sail to a fight not knowing what i can expect. )

six.its not historical also, no enemy ever politely asked with how many BR the other side sails or said you can not enter the battle.

seven. all those restrictions and timers are based on tunnel vision to accomplish a conditioned  battlefield 

 

as i  can speak for my own nation we never had problems with the 3-minute timer   the people who got ganked had to play better that`s our standpoint  (we are probably all hunters)

i f you were ganked it is your own stup... doing... (i cannot recall i was ganked by players, mostly i made stupid mistakes by doing wrong or attack a superior enemy) 

 

play better and group up with armed vessels that's our motto.

almost everybody in my nation does not like the new mechanic...(perhaps we Dutch are different)

what i mostly see is a whining captain who has to start all over again... yeah well that`s the learning process

 

for me, i fear the most that i won't be here to sail after the release, i just don't like it.

 

[Slim McSauce]

3 hours ago, jodgi said:

I don't understand some of you sandbox guys... Do you want sandbox OW or ineffective matchmaking with OW as the lobby?

The sandbox defense is a cope, what it really means is 'x' lacks certain features so we're going to come up with "y" scenario in our heads in order to justify our actions, because the game gives us no reason to enjoy itself other than "make your own fun", which is just about all you can do in NA unfortunately.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Raekur]

I still do not see a valid reason for the whole if the attacker has a lower br then they should not get reinforcements but the defender should...The only person I see benefiting from this is the lone raider who wiped out a trader in his fir/fir hunter and is worried about a hunter fleet coming after him since only a specialty built interceptor would have a chance to catch him and hold him for the rest of the fleet. Is there another reason for the aforementioned position?

[Palatinose]

7 hours ago, Thonys said:

BR should in my eyes be calculated on mass /guns/crew/gun loadout power/hold / and upgrades

That's something entirely different than what you're asking in OP. And I would support a BR based on equipment, at least mods and ship quality. Though it's probably a real mess to calculate it and very difficult for pb commanders.

Regarding your OP poll: how is it connected to your example of an Inger and three Indiaman? What further advantage do you need with such a fleet? 

[Thonys]

2 hours ago, Palatinose said:

That's something entirely different than what you're asking in OP. And I would support a BR based on equipment, at least mods and ship quality. Though it's probably a real mess to calculate it and very difficult for pb commanders.

Regarding your OP poll: how is it connected to your example of an Inger and three Indiaman? What further advantage do you need with such a fleet? 

it's still clear many don't understand the fundamental issue of the BR

" The freedom to attack."

[jodgi]

8 hours ago, Thonys said:

well, first of all, i don't like restrictions or limitations. (hate them)

Heh, I think that's why we're here discussing. We want OW but when we're faced with the concept of having to be there when shit happens or shit happens where we are we want to set aside OW and have a quasi arena fight. 

16 hours ago, Thonys said:

the BR is not permitting any help for the fleet captain, in this case, the BR is in favor of the Bellona who can slaughter the 4 ships easily

It's only teleported help you can't get. Do you want teleported cavalry in this OW game?

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

second, mostly these kind of limitations are going to be big traps (what people don't see)

If a lower BR warship attacks your traders and you are still able to call in more help from far, far away, couldn't that also be considered a trap? Anyone who's ok with 20 min timers is ok with traps.

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

third, the battle is open for 20 minutes soo ask yourself, why is that? ..to counter with a big ocean !..and that is the answer...

It's because people say they want OW but then don't want OW when it's not working in their favour. Read your own sentence!  You wanted big ocean and now you want to counter that!? (There is the possibility I misunderstand your point)

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

[BR should in my eyes be calculated on mass /guns/crew/gun loadout power/hold / and upgrades]

So, run around in gunless ships to cheat the tagging mechanics?

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

fifth . i see battles in OW as separate incidents on the ow were everybody in a certain time frame should have the chance to enter the battle. 

Indeed. Should it be OW WYSIWYG timeframe or longer timers disregarding OW (or to "counter OW" as you put it).

 

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

(why should i even bother to sail to a fight not knowing what i can expect. )

In a true OW you should expect the fight to be over when you got there.

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

seven. all those restrictions and timers are based on tunnel vision to accomplish a conditioned  battlefield

Agreed! Except 90 seconds to 2 min timers; That makes it OW and not a conditioned battlefield.

 

9 hours ago, Thonys said:

as i  can speak for my own nation we never had problems with the 3-minute timer   the people who got ganked had to play better that`s our standpoint 

How do you "play better" to counter an unseen enemy that is around one minute outside viewrange?

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

it's still clear many don't understand the fundamental issue of the BR

" The freedom to attack."

BR limits only apply to late joiners, anyone in almost anything can still attack pretty much anything. 

[Thonys]

most of your counter answers are not valid and can be considered fake news

quasi arena fights in naval action = introducing naval action legends. / never asked for teleported cavalry. / never asked for 20min  battle timer/limitation of the BR do not permit you to do battle/ i am not against traps.but the ods can be turned easily in a unfair fight  / gunless ships are a choice of the captain and are valid and have nothing to do with BR (just stupidity)and can not be called cheating./ try to teleport with a 3-minute timer that's almost impossible, so, not valid for that argument. /

 

at least there is a light in the tunnel, you agree on that," it is conditioned battlefield" (at least you begin to see the light)

you must have to understand that OPEN world is not a conditioned and restricted " Arena"  

(and i am not against the R zone [ that is a welcome conditioned area] )( like HS zone or the counterparts the  0 zones in EVE)

limitations and restrictions are killers for the fun you can have in a game if a game says NO to your future actions.

 

for me, it is very simple a 3-minute timer for ow/  and a 2-minute timer for the B zone ( and access  for all )

 

i still don't understand why there are so many restrictions and limitations. 

the truth perhaps lays in the engine..(or[data] server).but then again this game is dead before it is born and you can call this game" limited NA" but i have no parameters on that data.

i sincerely hope this all is for testing the boundaries and we still look for the limits of the allowable borders. but if it is vallid gameplay ....i fear the worst

greetings.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Thonys

[John Hill Regard]

29 minutes ago, Thonys said:

quasi arena fights in naval action = introducing naval action legend

100% agree

Since a few month Dev are doing everything to transform the open world into a PVP arena killing the flavor of this world.

so Close Naval action ,développe NA legend for  full PVP and when it will be a succès open again NA  doing a real Nation Driven open world with a little bit of RP flavor...

NA is becoming a ugly monster’s under the pressure of PVP hard core gamer and here is the biggest dev mistake...He lot of player’s love This period ,ship’s are beautiful and fight really challenging ,but all this special’s reward ,timer’s ,clan mechanic’s etc etc kill the pleasure.

Please dev think beautifful and interesting and deep for your game don’t stay short minded ....

Cheer,s

 

[Palatinose]

5 hours ago, Thonys said:

it's still clear many don't understand the fundamental issue of the BR

" The freedom to attack."

If I understand you correctly: no restrictions but the 3 minute timers? And what exactly is there much different from now but 1 minute? Now you can join for 2 min and THEN BR restrictions are effective? How does it - under these circumstances - limit you?

[Thonys]

when hunting

well the 2 minutes are to short, the 3 minutes were sufficient to get into the battle (especially when making small steering mistakes or wrong winds for the slower ships the 2 minutes were a little too short)

when doing revenge hunting the 2-minute rule cut out that type of gameplay (there is simply no animo to do that kind of gameplay anymore). even 3 minutes are tricky to do that kind of gameplay but we mostly gave it a go.

in other words, 2 minutes is to short and the 20* minutes is too long.

(*when reinforcements wait 15 minutes and enter the battle, the fighting ships are mostly almost wrecks.  [ what is also not a desirable situation] )

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Thonys