Game inbalances or cheating?

[staun]

7 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Partly right.. There is no crew, none at all, that can make impervious masts...

Nope, But there is ships builder that can. So insted of putting an upgrade on the ship. I send it back to get refittet, with thicker mast. 

[Durin]

8 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand that ships with their gunports open at those speeds would risk capsizing

thats true both for ships of the line and frigates. and since we can not close gunport its completly irrelevant.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Durin said:

thats true both for ships of the line and frigates. and since we can not close gunport its completly irrelevant.

Actually it is only partial true for frigates. Frigates in general had their gunports higher than SoL since their construction didn't allow/require for the heavy guns and their recoil - this meant that frigates in some conditions could take advantage of their main gundeck where the SoL couldn't use its lower gundeck. NA however doesn't allow for those considerations since the weather is allways perfect in battle.. In general the frigates were cheaper and more usable than the SoL - something NA hardly takes into consideration just as NA doesn't allow for heavy weather conditions in battles....

[Hethwill]

11 hours ago, Durin said:

" The Montañés was a 74 gun third-rate Spanish ship of the line. The name ship of her class, she was built in the Ferrol shipyards and paid for by the people of Cantabria. She was built following José Romero y Fernández de Landa's system as part of the San Ildefonso class, though her were amended by Retamosa to refine her buoyancy. She was launched in May 1794 and entered service the following year. With 2400 copper plates on her hull, she was much faster than other ships of the same era, reaching 14 (rather than the average 10) knots downwind and 10 (rather than 😎 knots upwind. "

Seems that good upgrades like Copper Plating can make SOL's quite fast. And if im not mistaken, it is not uncommon for big ships to be faster then small Frigates, specially in heavy seas, where it is a lot easyer for the big ship to plow through the big waves.

Exactly. Ship with everything for speed, gets that speed. I see nothing wrong.

 

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:09 PM, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Her best recorded speed = ship fitted ground up for speed.

Same with reload, crew numbers, marines, etc

That's how i see it.  

The problem with 'best recorded speeds' is that in many cases that speed was rarely achieved, often, it was a once only deal, the optimal weather conditions required for that speed may never come again in the lifetime of that ship.  

No one could deny that HMS Endymion was among the fastest ships of her day and type in the Royal Navy, neither can it be denied that her 'mean' speed would have been faster than most ships, I am wondering, then, whether it would be better to consider mean speed over best recorded speed?

That notwithstanding, in practice no Captain drove their ships to maximum speed unless combat was imminent, mainly due to the stress placed upon rigging, spars and masts, granted that such stresses are not currently modeled in game, never the less it was the case, even so, the chances of the prevailing winds being just right for a ships 'best recorded' speed were incredibly low.  It is of course, understandable that most Captains in game will seek to gain maximum distance to find combat in the limited time they may have available to them to play.

Just as warships today sail at an economical speed getting the best distance for fuel burned and minimal wear and tear, so it was Naval Captains chose to use wind to advantage, trading speed for less wear and tear on hull, rigging and masts.

Such considerations, of course, mean little in game, after all, a large sea and slow speeds mean that compromise has to be made with reality, even excepting that warships in particular, would, realistically sail under canvas required, rather, than for maximum speed, as opposed to traders who would want speed  in order to be first into port and make their owners a good profit.

[Sir Max Magic]

On 1/18/2019 at 3:01 PM, Sir Max Magic said:

Last addition from me to this subject and maybe the game itsself:

I didnt knew that its such a secret that Vets like you own Gold Ships that noone should talk about ?! If so, i am sorry about this...  

What i did instead is, hiding BY PURPOSE the stats of your ship you told me frankly after the match...and made only COMPARISONS to my ship to give other opponents no clue about your Ship !!!

(not that anybody will remember this conversation when facing you, if hes already remembering your name )

 

...and this as an EXAMPLE for the sole purpose to give additional input to the topic, how much Gold Ships with 3 additional Slots (2 Modules + 1 Trim), 5 Elite Mods and 5 Elite Skillbooks can give a huge Bonus in nearly every aspect of sailing against a Standard 3/5 Ship, which most newer Captains HAD to sail because of all the reasons you know for yourself !!!

 

The gear gap, especially when you take Skillbooks into account, is just too much, period !!!

 

I did the math !!!

Lets say, 2 ships, one perfect Gold Ship owned by a Veteran and one standard blue from an inexperienced Captain, both have the same 3 basic Mods

Disclaimer: i dont have any idea, whether this is "the best" setup or whether there are even better ones possible ??? Its just an Example:

 

2 more Modules: 

- Naval Clock: + 4% Speed

- Elite British Rig Refit: + 6% Turn Speed, + 8 % Yard Turn Speed

1 additional Trim:

- Very fast: + 3% Speed

5 more Knowkedge Slots:

- Art of Ship Handling: + 3% Speed, + 5% Turn Speed, + 10% Rudder Speed, - 6 % max. Roll Angle

- Gunnery Encyclopedia: - 5% Cannon Reload Time, -7% and - 6% Cannon Dispersion, + 3,5% Cannon min/max angle, +5% Firezone angle

- Helm Training: + 3% Turn Speed, + 10 % Rudder Speed

- Powder Monkeys: + 7 % Reloading

- Sailing Combat reports: + 4 % Turn Speed

Summary:

+ 14 % Speed !!!

+ 14 % Turn Speed !!!

+ 8 % Yard Speed !

+ 20 % Rudder Speed

+ 12 % Reloading

+ 5 % Firezone, + 3,5 % Cannon Angle which lets one shoot at worser angles and - 7 % Cannon Dispersion which helps hitting masts better

 

So pls, noone should argue, those arent MASSIVE buffs and wouldnt give Vets additional to their immense Experience a HUGE advantage in a Fight...thats just FACTS !!!

 

Ofc all Vets have the right to say: "We play this game longer than newbs and we tried hard to get all those stuff, so we have all rights to be superior"

Okay, but noone should argue we all being on the same playing field...

 

Over and out

 

 

On 1/18/2019 at 3:07 PM, Durin said:

why exactly are you naming some random trims upgrades and books?

i allways equip ships to boost strengths not to compensate a weakness. the connie doesnt turn so theres no reason to try and improve turning, wont happen anyway.

 

Friend, why are you always insisting i am speaking about you and your ship(s) ??

I didnt, and the single time i did, was only to make an example...

My above calculations were also only an example to show how big the gearcap can be ! If you fit your ships better, fine, the gearcap will only be bigger then

On 1/18/2019 at 3:11 PM, Durin said:

i allready told you why you lost. if you think quality and euipment makes so much difference then lets do a 1v1, your blue connie vs a ship you can choose for me

We didnt spoke about experience, i never argued, i would be the better captain or that i would have won when we both were in the same ship:

On 1/18/2019 at 10:48 AM, Sir Max Magic said:

First of all, i didnt had a problem with that you sunk me, i NEVER tried to argue you werent the much better captain, so no need to bash me...  

I stated exactly, ofc you would had won, even when we both were sailing the other ones ship...

But thats the real problem:

People who are (much) better than the rest, are usually  the ones who sail ALSO much better ships with much better gear and much better skill books !!

This makes so many battles so one-sided  

On 1/18/2019 at 3:35 PM, Durin said:

and regarding that better euipment gives you and advantage, name me one game where that isnt the case? in other games tho, you would not have any chance with lets say a warrior with green/blue items in WOW vs one that has epic/legendary items. but in this game, skill can defeat opponents with better equipment with ease

If we all, the Devs and Players, insist that NA should be somewhat a Simulation, we shouldnt make a MMO like WoW out of it, where gear matters the most...and skill the last !!!

On 1/18/2019 at 3:24 PM, Durin said:

i have zero knowledge on the connie classic for example, how about the best connie you can get vs connie classic with only crap upgrades and zero skills?

Thats a kind offer and i would be happy to arrange one with you...but just to learn from a (much) better player

We can do so, IF, and thats a BIG IF, i decides to continue with NA again...

Currently i have already moved again away from NA and dont know whether i will come back again...because i always hated such discussions in the forums !!! ...and much more in NA...

My freetime is too precious for all those forum warrioring

 

But if i decide to come back, i give you a call

 

Farewell

[Guest]

On 1/20/2019 at 8:41 AM, staun said:

Nope, But there is ships builder that can. So insted of putting an upgrade on the ship. I send it back to get refittet, with thicker mast. 

That would capsize the ship due to weight.. Besides steel masts doesn't exist in the 18-19th centuries.. The mods are an abomination to realism.

[staun]

34 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

That would capsize the ship due to weight.. Besides steel masts doesn't exist in the 18-19th centuries.. The mods are an abomination to realism.

I haven’t said anything about a steel mast. 

Capsize, you are sure of that? Think maybe we should try to find a shipbuilder. More ways that a mast could be stronger, maybe they use of Wood type, But also thicker. I am not a shipbuilder, but would think a couple of cm wouldn’t capsize the ship. (I do though think mast upgrades is important to balance the game a bit agsinst the best demasters)

But the overall Statement I made I still holds. Permenent upgrades is the same as you got some specialist crew, and shipknowledge can be compared to that you have trained and have  experience officer. Never understood why it not was like that.

But lots of thing in a game goes agsinst realisme. There will allways be compromises to make a game playable.

Edited January 22, 2019 by staun