Game inbalances or cheating?

[Hethwill]

You don't need to have the clan tag   you just need to play along with others.

And they can always announce in chat they want to BUY one.

[Licinio Chiavari]

12 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

You dont know shit and you proving it over and over again

 

He has a good point wishing mod stacking and infinite repairs to be reduced.

Still he misses too many points.

Like that properly fit, in a balanced and efficient and efficacious way is part of so called skill, being mainly experience.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, Beeekonda said:

I heard that good players never sail alone on a first rate (except me, I have autism)

It's indeed very dangerous.

[Beeekonda]

11 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

He has a good point wishing mod stacking and infinite repairs to be reduced.

Still he misses too many points.

Like that properly fit, in a balanced and efficient and efficacious way is part of so called skill, being mainly experience.

Mod stacking is already reduced and there is no infinite repairing unless you are on a basic cutter.

 

[Hethwill]

Even more ! Not enough ! 30% is a lot ! 3% stacked would be enough.

[Beeekonda]

2 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Even more ! Not enough ! 30% is a lot ! 3% stacked would be enough.

what is that? Mods improving a stat by 3% max?

[Hethwill]

Just now, Beeekonda said:

what is that? Mods improving a stat by 3% max?

imagine 5 different nature modules that increase speed. Can be rigging, hull, clock, and other.

Sum of all of them would be 3%.

Same with reload, pen, etc.

[Beeekonda]

1 minute ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

imagine 5 different nature modules that increase speed. Can be rigging, hull, clock, and other.

Sum of all of them would be 3%.

Same with reload, pen, etc.

That would make modding obsolete. A ship with same built (t/wo for example) will always perform only 1 role and only good in one particular situation.

 

 

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Beeekonda said:

That would make modding obsolete. A ship with same built (t/wo for example) will always perform only 1 role and only good in one particular situation.

 

 

what would be the measure to not make it obsolete but not obscene ?

[Beeekonda]

1 minute ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

what would be the measure to not make it obsolete but not obscene ?

It's already fine as it is. Some mods might need re-balance (buff for useless crap like iron knees or swing bed evelation or w/e the name is, nerf for stuff like muskets )

For example: 

T/WO Bellona with 3 speed mods: Navy Hull, Copper Platting, Bovenwinds - Faster ship for outgunning smaller opponents and outrunning bigger/same rate (or same t/wo Bellonas without speed mods). Reminds me of original 6 US frigates LUL. Basic masts(usually there is no problems with taking those down), repairing is meh, reloading is standart, no boarding bonuses, no HP/THICKNESS buffs

T/WO Bellona with 2 Thickness and 1 HP mod: Tanks better on long range, bounces better when angled, can take extra few extra shots. Cannot outrun T/WO Bellona (with no speed mods), same masts, repairing meh, reloading same, no boarding bonuses,  no speed bonuses.

T/WO Bellona with mix of Mast, Repairing, and Reloading mods: Stronger masts, slightly better repairing and reloading. Cannot do what what 2 ships above can and so on...

All 3 of those are probly gonna lose to T/WO Bellona with boarding mods (Nassau Fencing Masters + Muskets + Grenades/Guns) in most cases if they will get into boarding.

 

Being able to chose wood types, select mods and ship knowledge allows us to built same ships for different purposes and it makes game much better

[Hethwill]

So a bellona at 13, 14 knots does not sound obscene ?

Okay, i'll keep on playing with what we have.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Just now, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

So a bellona at 13, 14 knots does not sound obscene ?

Okay, i'll keep on playing with what we have.

Reducing chances to overstack, is fine.

Making personalization, purpose fitting secondary is another.

Balance is difficult to find.

[Beeekonda]

24 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

So a bellona at 13, 14 knots does not sound obscene ?

Okay, i'll keep on playing with what we have.

Now imagine that bellona being in line on a port battle, I'm sure that speed aint gonna give her much advantage, if any at all.

Or patrol zone where she cant escape using her speed and loosing fight to more, combat fitting, bellonas

EDIT: It might look like this 

https://i.imgur.com/HoC923z.mp4

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Beeekonda

[Hethwill]

2 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Balance is difficult to find.

Can't be that hard with a lot of historical records about the ships.

Max ever recorded speed = all the speed stuff, from woods to modules to knowledge.

Simple. Not difficult.

[Licinio Chiavari]

5 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Can't be that hard with a lot of historical records about the ships.

Max ever recorded speed = all the speed stuff, from woods to modules to knowledge.

Simple. Not difficult.

You are nerfing hard all speeds.

Because you should know that at the moment we can stack more than +25% speed bonus.

Constitution base speed around 10 kts?

[Hethwill]

Her best recorded speed = ship fitted ground up for speed.

Same with reload, crew numbers, marines, etc

That's how i see it.  

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Her best recorded speed = ship fitted ground up for speed.

Same with reload, crew numbers, marines, etc

That's how i see it.  

So Constitution base speed around 10.

As I said.

[Hethwill]

I don't care about your numbers.

You say 10 like this is a grocery.

[Licinio Chiavari]

7 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

I don't care about your numbers.

You say 10 like this is a grocery.

Wasnt best Constitution speed recorded around 13?

Fir/fir +10%, AoSH +3%, Naval clock +4%, copper plating +3%, NHR +2.5%, Cotton sails +2%, Light planking +1.5%, v.fast trim +3%, Speed trim +2%, ballast +1%, AoSH Speed book +2% = +34%

10 x 1.34 = 13.4 kts.

I did calculations now. Still I was not too afar saying 10 kts base speed.

Edit= forgot extra books.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Licinio Chiavari

[Crimson Sunrise]

why not remove mods in general if u want to have a more balanced game between ships bring it down to just base ships  and their performance in battle be purely on player skill in sailin them rather then all the junk we put on them to improve stats which realisticly u couldnt stack different hull modifications without incuring structural weakness or instability or overweight increasing drag coef, if the devs were aiming for realism as they state they wouldnt off changes the stats of the ship based on modules and skill books and trim to improve them. they would of remained with base ships 

[staun]

4 hours ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

why not remove mods in general if u want to have a more balanced game between ships bring it down to just base ships  and their performance in battle be purely on player skill in sailin them rather then all the junk we put on them to improve stats which realisticly u couldnt stack different hull modifications without incuring structural weakness or instability or overweight increasing drag coef, if the devs were aiming for realism as they state they wouldnt off changes the stats of the ship based on modules and skill books and trim to improve them. they would of remained with base ships 

Partly you are right, But thats just because they are called upgrades. What if they where called crew insted. So insted of 3 % reduktion in reload time. You where able to hire a better cannon crew and therefore have a better reload time and so on. Actually think most stats could be related to hire a better crew and not Call it a upgrade. But the result would be the same, But realistic, right?

The same with ship knowledge. Call it an officer, so you where able to hire an officer that was good in training Crew and therefore you could get the stats.

Edited January 19, 2019 by staun

[Durin]

On 1/18/2019 at 7:20 PM, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

So a bellona at 13, 14 knots does not sound obscene

" The Montañés was a 74 gun third-rate Spanish ship of the line. The name ship of her class, she was built in the Ferrol shipyards and paid for by the people of Cantabria. She was built following José Romero y Fernández de Landa's system as part of the San Ildefonso class, though her were amended by Retamosa to refine her buoyancy. She was launched in May 1794 and entered service the following year. With 2400 copper plates on her hull, she was much faster than other ships of the same era, reaching 14 (rather than the average 10) knots downwind and 10 (rather than 😎 knots upwind. "

Seems that good upgrades like Copper Plating can make SOL's quite fast. And if im not mistaken, it is not uncommon for big ships to be faster then small Frigates, specially in heavy seas, where it is a lot easyer for the big ship to plow through the big waves.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Durin said:

" The Montañés was a 74 gun third-rate Spanish ship of the line. The name ship of her class, she was built in the Ferrol shipyards and paid for by the people of Cantabria. She was built following José Romero y Fernández de Landa's system as part of the San Ildefonso class, though her were amended by Retamosa to refine her buoyancy. She was launched in May 1794 and entered service the following year. With 2400 copper plates on her hull, she was much faster than other ships of the same era, reaching 14 (rather than the average 10) knots downwind and 10 (rather than 😎 knots upwind. "

Seems that good upgrades like Copper Plating can make SOL's quite fast. And if im not mistaken, it is not uncommon for big ships to be faster then small Frigates, specially in heavy seas, where it is a lot easyer for the big ship to plow through the big waves.

Those average ship speeds are always with the lower gunports closed. I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand that ships with their gunports open at those speeds would risk capsizing - especially in heavy seas.....

[Guest]

14 hours ago, staun said:

Partly you are right, But thats just because they are called upgrades. What if they where called crew insted. So insted of 3 % reduktion in reload time. You where able to hire a better cannon crew and therefore have a better reload time and so on. Actually think most stats could be related to hire a better crew and not Call it a upgrade. But the result would be the same, But realistic, right?

The same with ship knowledge. Call it an officer, so you where able to hire an officer that was good in training Crew and therefore you could get the stats.

Partly right.. There is no crew, none at all, that can make impervious masts...

[Celtiberofrog]

You could buy crews, experienced crew were dearer, but helpless when commanded by bad captain.

Same as NA, it's the player that should only make the difference, not magic upgrades.

Hence necessity of flatening the margin between bonus and penalty from upgrades with minimum effects on ships.  

Edited January 20, 2019 by Celtiberofrog