recover sunken ships

[MasterBurte]

Hi captains,

 

i just read the thread about multi durable ships. That brought me to the idea, that we could get the ability to recover ships that sunk or are still sinking. It is always frustrating if you lose a ship that costs a lot. It was frusttrating for me, regardless that i had only tier 6/7 ships so far. I loved my heavy rattlesnake... :-(

If we slow down the sinking (what is realistic) we could recover a sinking ship, if we fix it to another ship or two. We could than tow it somewhere or fix some leaks and remove water. At shallow water we could even recover a completly sunken ship dependend on the depth it lays. Both variants should be very time consuming and have some risks like keel over the own ship and drouning crew.

[Slim McSauce]

What if we had special ship types for this very action? A carpenters ship whose sole purpose is to repair and float ships?

Perhaps that could add onto the exploration part of the game, where these ships can be sent to locations on OW to recover sunken vessels, while being useful in battle also by repairing friendlies.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, MasterBurte said:

Hi captains,

 

i just read the thread about multi durable ships. That brought me to the idea, that we could get the ability to recover ships that sunk or are still sinking. It is always frustrating if you lose a ship that costs a lot. It was frusttrating for me, regardless that i had only tier 6/7 ships so far. I loved my heavy rattlesnake... :-(

If we slow down the sinking (what is realistic) we could recover a sinking ship, if we fix it to another ship or two. We could than tow it somewhere or fix some leaks and remove water. At shallow water we could even recover a completly sunken ship dependend on the depth it lays. Both variants should be very time consuming and have some risks like keel over the own ship and drouning crew.

 

3 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

What if we had special ship types for this very action? A carpenters ship whose sole purpose is to repair and float ships?

Perhaps that could add onto the exploration part of the game, where these ships can be sent to locations on OW to recover sunken vessels, while being useful in battle also by repairing friendlies.

How about we take the "realistic" part of the game just a little bit seriously?

[Rigge1988]

No. Just no.

Removing the ctrl+z feature was the best decision ever made to this game. Bringing it back even slightly would ruin it.

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

How about we take the "realistic" part of the game just a little bit seriously?

From a quick wikipedia search the british royal navy deployed dozens of hospital ships from 16th-18th century, many with respectable armament. 

Would it be so far fetched to add a similar ship class with a slightly different function for the sake of more gameplay?

Edited November 29, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

From a quick wikipedia search the british royal navy deployed dozens of hospital ships from 16th-18th century, many with respectable armament. 

Would it be so far fetched to add a similar ship class with a slightly different function for the sake of more gameplay?

There's a difference between a hospital ship and a salvage barge.. and a hospital ship would be for recovering crew - not for keep ships afloat, or worse raising them.

[Slim McSauce]

14 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

There's a difference between a hospital ship and a salvage barge.. and a hospital ship would be for recovering crew - not for keep ships afloat, or worse raising them.

mmm thanks for the info! can't find anything about the hospital ships, so it's a no go.

[TheHaney]

Came to thread to see how many people shoot down an interesting potential gameplay mechanic in the name of preserving "historical realism" in a drastically unrealistic game.

Leaving amused.

[Hethwill]

Not a bad proposition. I would like to see catastrophic rig damage when ramming occurs ( to the rammer ) or when hitting shallows full force. Also having the gallants suffer from sharp angle winds during a turn.  Get out of battle in jury rigs, for example, and pray that a buddy tows you out to the nearest port.

Let's make ship recovery a nice feature connected to realistic outcomes and not just a very convenient one.

[Eyesore]

No boarding after severe rams would be nice aswell, or just a timer. This head-on ramming and then rageboarding is such bullshit. But, hey, it is funny as hell, not gamey at all, and many of the so-called uber-pvpers seem to see that as good gameplay ... it's just a griefingtactic. Realism doesn't matter.

Yeah yeah, I know, 'git gud'.

If you can salvage ships after they've sunk, there is no more need to try and capture them? The winner can collect afterwards, granting even more and easier loot for ganking/imbalanced fights? It will never help the weaker player?

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

9 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Not a bad proposition. I would like to see catastrophic rig damage when ramming occurs ( to the rammer ) or when hitting shallows full force. Also having the gallants suffer from sharp angle winds during a turn.  Get out of battle in jury rigs, for example, and pray that a buddy tows you out to the nearest port.

Let's make ship recovery a nice feature connected to realistic outcomes and not just a very convenient one.

Aboukir bay (the battle of the Nile) saw HMS Culloden grounded on Aboukir Island where she remained for the duration, despite the best efforts of HM Brig Mutine and the 50 gun HMS Leander to help haul her off. So yes such undertakings were known of.

Battles fought after storms saw ships fighting with varying degrees of damage, collision damage could be catastrophic, battles have been lost due to collisions, falls under poor seamanship a contributory factor in any battle. Indeed collisions occurred in the Battle of the Nile, as well as misjudged positioning, when engaging the anchored French line. As long as the damage is proportional to the speeds and weights of the ships involved I do not see an issue with collision damage. 

[MasterBurte]

I don't intended this to be a winner collects afterwards mechanic.

Here are a few examples (all has to be balanced -> more realism = better):

1. A enemy is sinking. If you want to get his ship, you still have to fight his crew. You can't stick your ships together while there is still enemy crew aboard. If it's worth for you to board the enemy AND afterwards prefent the ship from sinking is your decision. But there is no real benefit. The crew remains aboard as long the ship is still recoverable.

2. A enemy is sinking in shallow water. The crew can remain aboard as long as the ship didn't reached a certain depth. If the water is very shallow you might even use  your guns in a sunken ship (they have to be above water line; maybe lose powder to water and slow down reloading a lot). You can recover such a ship easier, but it's very situational.

3. An allied ship is sinking. You can help teammates as long as their ship hasn't reached a certain depth. But this is not a real option during battle, since you can't effectivly fight.

4. An enemy ship is sinking. The enemy surrenders (if implemented into the game). You can choose to rescue his ship. All other depend on you (see my surrender thread).

5. Sunken ships in shallow waters could (optional) remain for a short period of time after the battle ended. This could allow you to return and recover the ship. The location would only be shown to surviving participants of the battle.

Conclusion: This mechanic is situational and should help to prefent own loses. To recover enemy vessels is more difficult and often not worth while.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

6 minutes ago, MasterBurte said:

I don't intended this to be a winner collects afterwards mechanic.

Here are a few examples (all has to be balanced -> more realism = better):

1. A enemy is sinking. If you want to get his ship, you still have to fight his crew. You can't stick your ships together while there is still enemy crew aboard. If it's worth for you to board the enemy AND afterwards prefent the ship from sinking is your decision. But there is no real benefit. The crew remains aboard as long the ship is still recoverable.

2. A enemy is sinking in shallow water. The crew can remain aboard as long as the ship didn't reached a certain depth. If the water is very shallow you might even use  your guns in a sunken ship (they have to be above water line; maybe lose powder to water and slow down reloading a lot). You can recover such a ship easier, but it's very situational.

3. An allied ship is sinking. You can help teammates as long as their ship hasn't reached a certain depth. But this is not a real option during battle, since you can't effectivly fight.

4. An enemy ship is sinking. The enemy surrenders (if implemented into the game). You can choose to rescue his ship. All other depend on you (see my surrender thread).

5. Sunken ships in shallow waters could (optional) remain for a short period of time after the battle ended. This could allow you to return and recover the ship. The location would only be shown to surviving participants of the battle.

Conclusion: This mechanic is situational and should help to prefent own loses. To recover enemy vessels is more difficult and often not worth while.

You make some valid points, I would though suggest recovering enemy vessels could be worthwhile under the prize system, even if you just get the cargo, there is prize money in that, of course the ship would bring in additional prize money but if you have the cargo you at least got something.  If not, it's just how it went and next time you may find it balances out.

[Landsman]

22 minutes ago, rediii said:

I suggested some time ago that after a pvp battle, 1 hour or so later a wreck should spawn on the OW having all unlooted things inside it which you can trade or takes time to recover based on weight.

To not have 10.000 wrecks with some fish inside them they could be deleted again after a day or at next maintenance

Maybe even a part of the ship should be lootable from a material basis so you find some planks etc in the wreck

I like the idea but rather than the garbage someone didn't want it should be the cannons ( all cannons )and some fixed amount of repairs depending on the ship + the remaining from battle and a random upgrade of those the ship had...

Edited November 29, 2017 by Landsman