Captain Lust Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, rediii said: You want casual players with 2h time each week to get everything No, but I want them to feel it is realistically attainable. 12 hours ago, rediii said: WoW, EvE online, Any type of MMO TBH. rewards you with things the more you grind. I happen to think WoW and EvE are very unattractive games because they have absolutely no potential for skill based fighting, only level and grind based. 12 hours ago, rediii said: If you give everyone everything players will just quit earlier because they have no goal anymore. Wait! Are we going to cater to people who are halfway out the door anyway? Wouldn't it be more efficient to focus on people who enjoy the core OW activities (RvR, OW PvP, trading...) instead of artificially prolong grinds or hide stuff like this game is a goddamn easter egg hunt? This is from another discussion between @jodgi and @rediii and summarizes pretty well what i am thinking. It was closed so i couldn't reply. Whenever we have someone speak in favour of casual players on the forum ( which is really rare since they tend to not visit the forum frequently or at all ) the veterans / hardcore players will act like having to grind / spend alot of time in a pvp game to be / stay competitive in terms of gear is a good thing and that casuals should not have access to the gear ( by this logic at least, since usually casuals don't have the time ) and then people wonder why player numbers are so low... what do they think is gonna happen with casuals once they found out they're used as mere content for the hardcore / veterans? They keep playing with shitty random upgrades, found in PvE? Amusing really... The fact that you can not even buy the refit components for alot of marks in the admiralty store just shows how it isn't even only about massive time investment but also being in the right nation. And people can say what they will, but it is really obvious that the distribution of ports with good upgrades is everything but balanced. That's why you hear Brits and Swedes shout the loudest when it comes to defending the flawed system - they have most of the better refits at their disposal. Now of course i hear alot that you can just conquer the ports and that it encourages RvR, which is right and good and all BUT how many players are hardcore RvR players? The upgrades matter for all players and not just the RvR crowd. How will a small nation or even a solo player capture a port from one of the biggest nations, especially if it is on the other side of the map? That's right - they / he won't. It is also quite ridiculous how people claim upgrades don't matter while at the same time fiercely defending the current system that gives them the monoply ( except for the random drops of course, lets not forget the RNG that can give you the upgrade... or any other of the countless upgrades or medium guns or a permanent pump mod or repairs etc. ... ) on those upgrades - stay classy, guys. Edited September 27, 2017 by Captain Lust 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lust Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: So you say I argue for the current system because sweden has the best upgrades available? Sorry but thats ridiculous. I dont play with upgrades except I get it dropped. Most recent video of mine is with a oak/oak buccentaure+gaz captured from french. Not you in particular but i see mainly Swedes and Brits defend the system and last time i checked swedes had bovenwinds ( i know it is nerfed but still better than gazelle ), french fit and northern carpenters basic components at least ( not sure how it is currently ). On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: Also these shitty random drops happen to be something like cartagena. Yeah, thats what i said. You can get it but usually you won't, because even if you get a upgrade from a NPC it can be any upgrade. So let's assume you want this cartagena tar for example, are you telling me you will grind NPCs with the particular goal to get it? Of course you can get decent upgrades with the RNG but they are rarely exactly the ones you want / need... On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: I defend the current system because it provides atleast a bit value to ports and "epic" items/upgrades/loot I don't disagree... it's just at the cost of casuals is what i am saying. Would be all fair and sqaure if you could actually buy it in admiralty store for 500 marks or so. It would not lose value but everyone would have a chance to work for it... On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: because you are a soloplayer I was playing with my mates who all quit but also enjoyed solo hunting alot, so yeah that is partly correct i guess. On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: aiming to having all upgrades he wants on his ship. I have every upgrade multiple times and considering the fact that i don't play active anymore, that is more than i will ever need. I can provide screenshots if you want. On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: The fact that you want to disqualify me from the discussion because you think im only argueing for it because i get the benefits is so stupid sorry. Where exactly did i disqualify you? On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: Rather bring facts or just make a suggestion and tell us why. I already did. You not reading or caring for them is not my problem. On 27.9.2017 at 6:01 AM, rediii said: you want everyone to be able to get everything as easy as possible This is what i hear every time and i never said that. As i said i agree with jodgi in that it should not be "as easy as possible" but "realistically attainable". Can you tell the difference? How would more ports having it but the same drop rate split among them or the refits being available at 500-1k marks in the shop be "easy as possible" or devalue the item? Even in the useless gear grind games that are brought up time and time again to justify the limited upgrades ( and as jodgi also mentioned those really aren't a metric for a good, balanced and competitive PvP game ) you can actually buy the upgrades from other players for a very high price. Now here we are in NA where gold has almost no value and player numbers being so low that it can take hours or days to find someone selling the upgrade you want / need - if you find anyone at all. You know ultimately you guys will have to deal with the low server pop because you all keep approving the fu**ing over of casuals that are the majority of the playerbase and i will be in Legends. I can not do more than raise attention to this issue to help you, because i love the game ( well the pvp part and visuals ). Edited September 29, 2017 by Captain Lust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodo Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The thing that both EVE and WoW do that this does not do is it lets the casual player who only plays 5-10hours a week feel like they are part of the world not just visiting it. This game you cant really DO anything in an hour or two a night. If I wasnt already established this game would be impossible to enjoy as a solo player with less than 2 hours to play every other night. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Gallouédec Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Refits with no malus should not be in game, that's all. Carthagena tar should reduce max speed or turn rate for exemple. Same for all others. It is the problem as it have a snowball effect: vets can access it and replace them, it give them a slight bonus over the casuals who have no chance to access it or risk it. Maybe that's not what makes casual sink, but knowing you don't fight on an even ground can make ragequit. Imagine a map where all ships are in fir, and other woods are in one port, the nation controling the port telling: if you want something else than fir ship , come and take the port or buy some from us ^^. No-upgrade-ships should be the basic version, and upgrade should be customisation/tuning tool to push in a direction knowing it's to the detriment of something else, not pure boost. Magical boosts create snowball effect and that's not good for a game, it's frustrating to be the underdog when not fighting on even ground, and the top dogs gets bored soon too if the game become empty or too one-sided. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lust Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) On 28.9.2017 at 5:51 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said: Refits with no malus should not be in game, that's all. Agree completely. Sidegrades are always better for game balance than straight upgrades. On 28.9.2017 at 5:51 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said: slight bonus For some it is a slight bonus but for a few the bonus is everything but slight. There are upgrades that can make all the difference in a battle of equally skilled captains. On 28.9.2017 at 5:51 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said: Maybe that's not what makes casual sink, but knowing you don't fight on an even ground can make ragequit. I think the fact alone that casuals are already at a disadvantage due to their lack of skill and experience makes this all the more true and sad. On 28.9.2017 at 5:51 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said: Imagine a map where all ships are in fir, and other woods are in one port, the nation controling the port telling: if you want something else than fir ship , come and take the port or buy some from us ^^. This is pretty much all i can think of when the cartagena tar issue is brought up. I wonder how long it will stay british... On 28.9.2017 at 5:51 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said: top dogs gets bored soon too if the game become empty or too one-sided. You would assume this at least but looking at how the veterans / long term players used to sealclub new players or treat casuals and their interests in general, this probably isn't true for many in the core of the NA community... Edited September 29, 2017 by Captain Lust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I solo pirated for over a year, and had no problems. The game was challenging, difficult, and I spent a lot of time running, sneaking, and outsmarting. Sorry, but this "casual player" bullshit holds ZERO water to me. I am the DEFINITION of a casual player, and routinely stomp the shit out of whoever I run across with few exceptions. No pity here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Cornelius Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I'm a casual player, and I come to the forums sometimes because I know it's the only way my voice will get heard. The fact is, that the direction Naval Action has gone has made it nearly impossible for a casual player, single player, or even a small clan to be competitive except in the smallest of scales. This is unfortunate. I keep playing the game because I like the concept and it is the only game on the market that caters to what is a rather niche interest. On 9/27/2017 at 5:05 AM, Hodo said: This game you cant really DO anything in an hour or two a night. If I wasnt already established this game would be impossible to enjoy as a solo player with less than 2 hours to play every other night. This is exactly correct but too few people - both players and developers - are aware of this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 We had a module system but it was changed to a perk/book system because mods were more valuable than the ship itself. Still don't get why refits and perma mods are still in-game. They are completely against the reason why we got books and perks. It's not the fear to lose a ship it's the damn fear to lose a 1million + rar mod. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Please don't reopen locked discussions, they're locked for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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